Poker

[brewers255]

We are having a discussion in school and the question is do you think poker is a sport?

 

What do you think, is it a sport or no?

[RyDogg66]

Its a card game. Its as much of a sport as go fish.

[trwi7]

No it's not a sport. The most movement you do is pick up chips and bet anybody can do it.

[aracko]

It requires massive concentration and stamina when your entering these big tournaments. Dicipline, guts, competition. Yes, I think its a sport.

[TheCrew07]

How can it be a sport? You sit at a table and drink beer while playing.

 

If stamina makes it a sport because being able to concentrate for long periods of time means something special, then pretty much any job would be a sport.

[dadofandrew]

It's a game of skill. No more of a sport than Scrabble or countless others.

[slack00]

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It requires massive concentration and stamina when your entering these big tournaments. Dicipline, guts, competition. Yes, I think its a sport.

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I play myself, but poker requires no athleticism at all. If a sport is determined by your criteria, then that contest where the last person touching a new vehicle wins that vehicle is also a sport. That also requires stamina, discipline, etc. and is a competition.

 

Poker is in the same category as chess, checkers, any other card game, etc.: a game of skill.

[aracko]

Fair enough but after a 12 hour session I think you might decide otherwise. Played under the same circumstances, I would even consider Chess a sport. I dont know.

 

I think that Doyle Brunson is best equipped to answer this question having been a star basketball player in his day as well.

 

"I think there are so many things that are the same in sports and poker that you've got to link them together some way," said Brunson, a spokesperson for DoylesRoom.com. "You have to be a mental athlete to play. You have to have physical endurance. ... The last tournament I won (the No-Limit Six-Person Hold 'Em at last year's World Series of Poker), I played 18 hours one day, 16 hours the next day and 16 hours that last day. That's pretty tough. ...

 

"You have to practice like we did in athletics. If I go several weeks without playing and I go back and play, I'm so rusty I make a lot of errors," said Brunson, a high-school state champion in the mile run and a basketball standout at Hardin-Simmons University in Abilene, Texas, who was ticketed for the NBA before his injury. "The best poker players have the sort of mental toughness and discipline that you see in top athletes" , he added.

 

 

"OK, so some of the guys are out of shape," he added. "Let some of those guys that are in such good shape come and try to sit with us at a poker table. ... I'll bet you the pro athlete folds before the poker player does."

 

Who knows - I dont really play much any longer cause my family life doesnt allow it. That said - this is a fun debate - kind of like the nascar debate and I am interested in hearnig your final verdict.

[GAME05]

America really needs to stop stretching the definition of sport or Connect Four will be in the Olympics and all those kids playing Magic Cards in high school will be demanding a letter.

[Houlie24x]

I don't think its a sport. Like many people said, almost any board game or any type of gambling would be a sport. If poker wasn't televised or wasn't high stakes this wouldn't even be a discussion.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

It's 90% luck and 10% skill. How is this a sport?

 

If you're playing with people that have any idea what they're doing, it should generally come down to luck.

 

Regardless of what you're told on TV, after you know how to play the game and figure out pot odds and thus what you should bet based on players left, position, hand and bet, etc, it becomes a game of luck and nothing else.

 

OK, I'll say 10% skill, 5% technique (reading players, bluffing, etc) and 85% luck.

[stoutdude04]

definatly not...what a joke of a question. Look up sport in the dictionary. The fact that many people who are not physically fit or physically able can attempt and be succesful at it makes it not a sport in my book. Dont get me wrong, I love playing and sitting around, but it in noway resembles anything of a "sport". I would consider it a "game", by all means.

 

EDIT - It requires massive concentration and stamina when your entering these big tournaments. Dicipline, guts, competition.

 

So does going number 2 on the can. As well as dominoes, euchre, and sheepshead. They are all games. Nothing close to a sport.

[trwi7]

http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/pokerblog/images/091705-1.jpg

 

Does that look like something you would wear while playing sports?

 

http://www.playersedge.com/images/doyle_brunson.jpg

 

Do you really think Doyle Brunson would be able to compete with the younger guys if this was actually a sport?

[MHgb]

Not a sport, just a highly competitive game. There can still be tons of similarities. Doesn't make it a sport. It's mainly a game of chance, not skill. NASCAR is a sport. Takes skill and physical exertion.

[GAME05]

poker is no way a game of chance; it takes great skill. it's not a matter of luck, it's a matter of numbers. On the surface, a Queen coming up to make your straight seems like luck, but over the long haul probability always plays out. And it's the Brunson's of the world (well, not so much his son), who have the skill to take advantage of those statistically-advantageous situations.

 

that said, it's not a sport. if even the slightest amount of physical exertion qualified something as a sport, then there would be no limit to what would fit in that definition.

[pitchleague]

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I'll bet you the pro athlete folds before the poker player does."

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of course they'll fold. They make 10s of millions of dollars. What's a few grand for a buy-in to them? They're just there for publicity before they head to the strip clubs and such.

[slack00]

Well put, GAME. I was about to post something very similar.

 

If the game was only luck, there wouldn't be people (more than just a handful) that make poker their only source of income.

 

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And it's the Brunson's of the world (well, not so much his son), who have the skill to take advantage of those statistically-advantageous situations.

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Actually, his son Todd is a pretty skilled player as well:

 

LINK

[Fatter than Joey]

I would even consider Chess a sport.

 

I know that a lot of people want to make Poker out to be this grueling mental marathon, but it really is nothing more than understanding probabilities. I don't doubt you need a tough stomach and it can be an emotional roller coaster, and I don't doubt that there is skill involved, but I don't count understanding probabilites as a skill as it relates to a game or strategy.

 

Chess on the other hand is almost entirely skill, with very little luck involved. We probably should not confuse the 2.

 

That said clearly neither is a sport, and all that needs to happen is for both of them to become Olympic events to solidify it.

[GAME05]

well, the game isn't ALL probabilities. part of it, certainly, but I'm not doing calculations for every single had I play. And probability requires every variable to be known, but you still often have the unknown of what the other guy is holding; therein is the skill.

[trwi7]

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but you still often have the unknown of what the other guy is holding; therein is the skill.

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There's no skill in figuring out if a guy is bluffing. It's just a guess based on your hand, how many chips you have, how many chips are in the pot and how many players are commited to play the hand.

[GAME05]

There's no skill in figuring out if a guy is bluffing. It's just a guess based on your hand, how many chips you have, how many chips are in the pot and how many players are commited to play the hand.

 

....how many chips the other player has, position, any tells, his playing style, past hands.....and you've got to come up with the correct answer to all of those variables in a matter of seconds. no skill in that. you must be an immensely successful player if you always know when a player is bluffing or not. I've played against some very successful players and they don't always know.

[RyDogg66]

Based on some the definitions of "sport" in this thread it seems like a grueling 16 hour staring match would qualify. People need to stop kidding themselves.

[trwi7]

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....how many chips the other player has

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Yes that goes along with how many chips you have...

 

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any tells

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A good player doesn't give any tells. I make sure I don't, I look at my cards long enough to memorize them, put them down put my left hand on my cheek and start betting.

 

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his playing style

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Well you kind of have me there. It's much easier for me to figure out the conservative guys. They wait in the weeds until they get a hand, I know I'm out.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

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past hands

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Past hands of who? Other players? Because they don't always show their hands.

[Getpaddled]

Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Used by itself, sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome (winning or losing), but the term is also used to include activities such as mind sports and motor sports where mental acuity or equipment quality are major factors. Sports are used as entertainment for the player and the viewer. It has also been proven by experiments that daily exercise increases mental strength and power to study.

 

vs.

 

A game is a structured or semi-structured activity, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes also used as an educational tool. (The term "game" is also used to describe simulation of various activities e.g., for the purposes of training, analysis or prediction, etc., see "Game (simulation)".) Games are generally distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more concerned with the expression of ideas. However, the distinction is not clear-cut, and many games may also be considered work and/or art. An example of a game is chess. You use your brains to solve the game and win the game. Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interactivity. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational or psychological role.

 

Known to have been played as far back as prehistoric times, games are a universal part of the human culture, for all experiences, genders and ages.

[Getpaddled]

sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome (winning or losing),

 

after reading that..... I highly doubt that poker is a sport, because the MAJORITY of the games outcomes are not determined by physical activity.