Casey McGehee traded to Pirates for reliever Jose Veras [Latest: Veras headed for arby hearing]

[StearnsFTW]

McGehee simply regressed to where he should be.

 

I expect him to be average/below average in Pittsburgh because that's what I think he is.

 

Heck of a nice guy, glad he's not on our team anymore.

[CheezWizHed]

Basically an average short reliever.

 

Nah, he is 6'6", so only Loe can call him a short reliever. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[NievesNoNO]

This is how an even trade should look. Considering we signed Ramirez it made sense to move McGehee. I think he'll bounce back. I don't know much about Veras except that he had a decent year last year and throws the ball hard. Everything being equal I'll take my chances with a guy that can run it up there in the mid 90's. He looks like he should fill the 7th inning role or ideally be a guy that you bring in when you need a strikeout.

 

From the Pirates end, if McGehee bounces back they moved an average middle reliever for a solid everyday player which is always a win in my book. Good luck to Casey!

[Ennder]

I would guess McGehee bounces back to slightly below his 08/09 stat line offensively and his defense is probably closer to average than the below average we saw with the knee problems those seasons. This is probably a bad deal but it is one that makes sense and probably helps the team. If it allows us to trade KRod I like it a lot more but if we do trade him we need bullpen help because our bullpen isn't very good with him gone.

[prophet]

I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe this was discussed. But, if we got a decent middle reliever for Casey after last year, what could we have got if we would have sold high before last year? Good luck to Casey though. He seemed like a good guy, and was very easy to cheer for.

[homer]

This is probably a bad deal but it is one that makes sense and probably helps the team.

?????

[thumperden]

Is Veras arby eligible too? He's 31, and as far as average middle relievers go, has been cheap to this point. Just curious as to what the contract is going to be.

Nevermind...this from mlbtraderumors.com.

 

Both players are arbitration eligible this offseason. Veras projects to earn $2.5MM in 2011, while McGehee projects to earn $3.1MM. Veras, 31, posted a 3.80 ERA with 10.0 K/9 and 4.3 BB/9 in 71 innings for the Pirates in 2011. McGehee, 29, posted a .223/.280/.346 line with 13 home runs in 600 plate appearances.

[PrinceEatMeat]

His salary is projected to be $2.5 million, so we save minimal money in this deal. It was more just trading someone we didn't need for someone we did need.

[Ennder]

This is probably a bad deal but it is one that makes sense and probably helps the team.

?????

When talking straight up value for value we probably gave up more than we got but it makes sense trading something we didn't need for something we did. Not sure what the confusion is? KRod at his contract is a bad deal but he is going to help the team quite a bit if he stays as another example.

[Thurston Fluff]

But, if we got a decent middle reliever for Casey after last year, what could we have got if we would have sold high before last year?

 

IF we go by this then we should have traded Prince two years ago to get maximum value for him. Would you have traded the last two years of Prince just to get his maximum value as a trading chip? If you always sell high to get max trade value then you never get the full use of that high level player.

I understand the idea of selling while their value is still high but perhaps about to regress. The problem with that concept is I don't know of anyone clairvoyant enough to know when that regression is going to start or when it reaches the point of better value as a trade chip than a player. Most trades seem to be one made where one team has something of value but not as valuable to that team as it is to another. This is a perfect example of that. WE got the best years out of Casey and got a player at a position we desperately needed help at. Win win trades are fine to me. They don't all need to be huge wins for us and huge disappointments to the other team to make them good trades.

[prophet]

It was a hypothetical, hindsight question. I didn't say we should have, I was asking what his value would have been in the other posters opinions. All I was asking, is what do you think we could have gotten, compared to what we did get. Stop putting words into peoples mouths.

[Nottso]

Fwiw (nothing), I read your question in the same manner as Backupcatchers seems to have read it.

[xisxisxis]

Fwiw (nothing), I read your question in the same manner as Backupcatchers seems to have read it.

 

Fwiw (nothing), I read it as Prophet asking a question. Nowhere in his post did he indicate he was suggesting that was the better option or should have been done.

[Nottso]

Fwiw (nothing), I read your question in the same manner as Backupcatchers seems to have read it.

 

Fwiw (nothing), I read it as Prophet asking a question. Nowhere in his post did he indicate he was suggesting that was the better option or should have been done.

Funny how that works, eh? In face to face verbal communication there would probably be little to no confusion. Voice inflection, body language and overall demeanor would likely leave little doubt. When all that is lost and all we have are words on a screen, interpretation is so much more subjective.

[endaround]

His salary is projected to be $2.5 million, so we save minimal money in this deal. It was more just trading someone we didn't need for someone we did need.

I think MLBTRade rumours pull these numbers out of their Pujols. Veras was a NRI last season I don't see how he gets $2.5m.

[RockCoCougars]

No way would I give this Veras guy more than a million. He's been bouncing all over baseball, so I'm assuming that he has some limitations. I hope that this guy isn't given chance after chance to justify the trade, when it is obvious that this was a pure salary dump. If that's the case, I would have rather they just non-tendered McGehee.

[Thurston Fluff]

Sorry I wasn't trying to put words in anyone's mouth. I guess hypothetically we may have traded for someone in a similar situation who had two surprisingly good years but was bound to come back to Earth. One would imagine other GM's saw the same thing Melvin did when he didn't give him the multiple year deal he wanted. With that in mind I am not sold that he could have got a better player with with less risk than Casey was. In fact we could have got less if we did trade him high and ended up with a player who crashed as bad as Casey did. If that player wasn't needed by a team that matched our needs we could have just had to non tender him.

[homer]

This is probably a bad deal but it is one that makes sense and probably helps the team.

?????

When talking straight up value for value we probably gave up more than we got but it makes sense trading something we didn't need for something we did. Not sure what the confusion is? KRod at his contract is a bad deal but he is going to help the team quite a bit if he stays as another example.

The way you worded it was very confusing. It helps the team therefore how could we have not gotten even value? Wouldn't giving up more than we received make the team worse?

[trwi7]

Just noticed the Pirates are trying to get every baseball player whose last name starts with Mc on their team.

 

Andrew McCutchen

Daniel McCutchen

James McDonald

Michael McKenry

Nate McLouth

Casey McGehee

[Ennder]

The way you worded it was very confusing. It helps the team therefore how could we have not gotten even value? Wouldn't giving up more than we received make the team worse?

Only if every position were the exact same. We gave up more value than we got imo but we filled a need and gave up something we didn't need so it makes sense. My guess is when you look at the WAR of the two players after the season that McGehee's will be higher but if he were on the Brewers he'd be riding the bench while Veras is going to get full time play in our bullpen.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't get the need here. With the Brewers apparently keeping Loe, Veras will be the fourth righty out of the bullpen at best. I would have rather non tendered McGehee and signed Saito, who is better situationally against lefties and would have often supplanted Loe as the 7th inning guy.

[bjkrautk]

The way you worded it was very confusing. It helps the team therefore how could we have not gotten even value? Wouldn't giving up more than we received make the team worse?

I'm chiming in here, because I think this is an interesting topic. There are two distinct measurements of 'value' in these terms: one objective (e.g. wins above a replacement player), and one which is more subjective (Mat Gamel's value as a 1b for the Brewers last year was minimal, given that Prince Fielder took the lion's share of the ABs at that position).

 

I think that Enderr's take on the trade is that Veres is probably not an increase in objective value, but is roughly equivalent in terms of making a contribution to the 2012 Brewers (who have Ramirez, Gamel, and Green on the infield corners, and will probably still add a 5th OF type who could play 1b, while they also need to replace Hawkins and Saito in the bullpen).

 

That's the perspective which comes closest to my own on the trade. Both of these players were non-tender candidates, because their (subjective) value to their previous teams would appear to be worth less than they'd stand to make in arbitration. Getting something for a player who has minimal value to your team is better than getting nothing, so even if a good year of McGehee has more value than a good year for Veres....making this move should make the Brewers a better team next year.

 

 

(EDIT: Cursed once again by my inability to type quickly!)

[reillymcshane]

nice comments from mcgehee on JSonline:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135536373.html

 

Good guy to the end.

[hawing]

In face to face verbal communication there would probably be little to no confusion. Voice inflection, body language and overall demeanor would likely leave little doubt. When all that is lost and all we have are words on a screen, interpretation is so much more subjective.

http://chelsea.theoffside.com/files/2010/10/picture-17.png

 

Sorry, just the first thing I thought of upon reading Nottso's wisdom. Carry on.

[brwrsfan]

I don't get the need here. With the Brewers apparently keeping Loe, Veras will be the fourth righty out of the bullpen at best. I would have rather non tendered McGehee and signed Saito, who is better situationally against lefties and would have often supplanted Loe as the 7th inning guy.

Well having another guy to "share" the 7th with Loe is a good thing as RR won't hesititate to ride him into the ground given the chance. I also don't know why everyone is so broken up over Saito. Yeah, he was good for the most part last year, but he is 42, getting injured more frequently and only pitched in 30 innings total last year and couldn't pitch back to back days. We had virtually no use for Casey at this point other than backup (and even that was pushing it really) so we got a serviceable (though maybe slightly average) bullpen guy that we needed. Basically got something we needed for somebody we might very well have released anyway.