Aramis Ramirez to Brewers - 3/$32 + $4M buyout for 2015

[Oldcity]

Ramirez isn't a defensive upgrade over anyone. And I don't understand the concept that Ramirez will be insurance in case

Green or Gamel struggle. Green won't even be given the chance to struggle.

[paul253]

The only way I like this move is if it involves playing ARam at first, moving Gamel to right, and trading Hart to Atlanta for one of their many major league ready pitching prospects. Since none of that is going to happen, I don't really like the move. I get that ARam will improve the offense, but when did Milwaukee become a team that can rely on expensive veterans? We had a home grown, cheap player that should have been given a shot and now he's been relegated to a bench player for the next 3 years because Weeks sure isn't going anywhere. Now I have to wonder how much money is left to resign Marcum and/or Greinke because if we have to replace both of them we are back to being a .500 team.

 

This move seems really shortsighted to me. I feel like it will handicap the team for the next few years while guys like Green and Gindl sit on the bench.

[fondybrewfan]

The only way I like this move is if it involves playing ARam at first, moving Gamel to right, and trading Hart to Atlanta for one of their many major league ready pitching prospects. Since none of that is going to happen, I don't really like the move. I get that ARam will improve the offense, but when did Milwaukee become a team that can rely on expensive veterans? We had a home grown, cheap player that should have been given a shot and now he's been relegated to a bench player for the next 3 years because Weeks sure isn't going anywhere. Now I have to wonder how much money is left to resign Marcum and/or Greinke because if we have to replace both of them we are back to being a .500 team.

 

This move seems really shortsighted to me. I feel like it will handicap the team for the next few years while guys like Green and Gindl sit on the bench.

Assuming they can replace Wolf internally with a current minor leaguer there is no reason the Aram signing prohibits them from signing one of Marcum or Grienke. You probably can't sign both anymore but that probably wasn't likely to begin with. Melvin is really banking on hitting it with one or two of the minor league pitchers in the next 1-2 years so 2 or 3 spots in the rotation can be filled with pre-arby players. If Peralta, Fiers, Thornburg, etc fail miseralbly at the MLB level; then we are going to have a problem.

[sargennm]

I'm not a numbers expert, so i don't know how "valid" this analysis is, but this made me feel good about the moves so far (particularity the A-RAM move). Can't believe he'll be worse than Casey at 3B, but I guess we'll see come April. I'm cautiously optimistic (even with Braun's suspension for next year).

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/s...ts-brewers-in-good-shape

[jhart05]

I'm kind of surprised some thought the Brewers were a contender in the divison before this and Braun's issue came up, much less the WS. I didn't think so. Then with Braun having to sit for 50 games, I didn't think they were even a .500 team. (I'm not a believer that Gamel is any kind of answer at 1B.)

 

Now with Ramirez, and Braun still out for 50 games, I'm upgrading them to a .500 team.

You thought a team that won 96 games last year and lost one key player was no longer a contender? Yeah, you're definitely in the minority on this board.

Yes I did. Before Braun's suspension I had them above .500 but missing the playoffs. I don't think much of Mat Gamel or McGehee at 1B. They are obviously not going to be able to replace Prince's production on the field, but his clubhouse leadership might be missed just as much.

 

Yesterday after hearing about Braun's deal, I had them under .500. Today, I think this puts them at .500 + / - 2 games.

[jhart05]

The only way I like this move is if it involves playing ARam at first, moving Gamel to right, and trading Hart to Atlanta for one of their many major league ready pitching prospects. Since none of that is going to happen, I don't really like the move. I get that ARam will improve the offense, but when did Milwaukee become a team that can rely on expensive veterans? We had a home grown, cheap player that should have been given a shot and now he's been relegated to a bench player for the next 3 years because Weeks sure isn't going anywhere. Now I have to wonder how much money is left to resign Marcum and/or Greinke because if we have to replace both of them we are back to being a .500 team.

 

This move seems really shortsighted to me. I feel like it will handicap the team for the next few years while guys like Green and Gindl sit on the bench.

 

Except for the trading Corey Hart part, this is how I feel as well.

[danzig6767]

So the Brewers already had very little LH-RH balance, they are set to lose not only the only impact LH bat they had but one of the biggest LH impact bats in the game, and they go out and sign another RH hitter, so the only LH protection they have in the lineup is Gamel? They will get killed by tough RH pitchers. I'd rather have had Furcal and Green.

Ramirez hits righthanders basically at the same clip that he hits lefties.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6014/splits;_ylt=AgSq1tGrANlcjcpl3NFrVe.FCLcF?year=2011&type=Batting

[logan82]

Gamel/Ramirez 2012 will probably outproduce Fielder/McGehee 2011. Gamel/Gonzales/Ramirez is probably better defensively than Fielder/Betancourt/McGehee. Not a lot better but better. Ramirez is probably the worst defender at his position out of those 6 guys. If you believe that the Brewers were a 96 win true talent team last year I am not sure how you could go much lower than 94 even with Braun out for 50 games.

[zzzmanwitz]

Gamel/Ramirez 2012 will probably outproduce Fielder/McGehee 2011.

 

I'm not sure this is a given, but I see where you are coming from.

[reillymcshane]

I'm not a numbers expert, so i don't know how "valid" this analysis is, but this made me feel good about the moves so far (particularity the A-RAM move). Can't believe he'll be worse than Casey at 3B, but I guess we'll see come April. I'm cautiously optimistic (even with Braun's suspension for next year).

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/s...ts-brewers-in-good-shape

This was a good article. Even with Braun out, we'd be okay. The biggest unknown will be Gamel, but that's part of life. Gotta take some risks here and there. I think the projections they have for Mat are too high, but even if he's just average, he's doing fine.

[logan82]

Gamel/Ramirez 2012 will probably outproduce Fielder/McGehee 2011.

 

I'm not sure this is a given, but I see where you are coming from.

Not by a lot but I think Ramirez and Gamel should be better.

2011

McGehee

.280/.346/.626

Fielder

.415/.566/.981

 

I would guess .340/.450/.790 on the lower end for Gamel. Ramirez' career numbers are .342/.500/.842. At worst I don't think either will be a black hole in the lineup like McGehee was.

[jjkoestler]

I'm kind of surprised some thought the Brewers were a contender in the divison before this and Braun's issue came up, much less the WS. I didn't think so. Then with Braun having to sit for 50 games, I didn't think they were even a .500 team. (I'm not a believer that Gamel is any kind of answer at 1B.)

 

Now with Ramirez, and Braun still out for 50 games, I'm upgrading them to a .500 team.

You thought a team that won 96 games last year and lost one key player was no longer a contender? Yeah, you're definitely in the minority on this board.

Yes I did. Before Braun's suspension I had them above .500 but missing the playoffs. I don't think much of Mat Gamel or McGehee at 1B. They are obviously not going to be able to replace Prince's production on the field, but his clubhouse leadership might be missed just as much.

 

Yesterday after hearing about Braun's deal, I had them under .500. Today, I think this puts them at .500 + / - 2 games.

The Brewers were a 96 win team last season. According to WAR a season of Fielder and 50 games of Braun are worth approximately 8 games; an 88 win team. They also added A-Ram, Gonzo, and will have K-Rod for an entire season.

[Ennder]

Gamel/Ramirez 2012 will probably outproduce Fielder/McGehee 2011. Gamel/Gonzales/Ramirez is probably better defensively than Fielder/Betancourt/McGehee. Not a lot better but better. Ramirez is probably the worst defender at his position out of those 6 guys. If you believe that the Brewers were a 96 win true talent team last year I am not sure how you could go much lower than 94 even with Braun out for 50 games.

Fielder is worse than Ramirez defensively and Betancourt is for sure too. Gamel most likely is as well. McGehee is actually underrated defensively on this board so he is better than Aramis and Gonzalez obviously is as the only good defensive player in the bunch.

[jjfanec]

I tend to agree. The division right this minute is muddled enough that Epstein will soon realize he can steal it and will go out and sign Fielder. I see the Brewers as no better than dark horses at this point. Ramirez might have moved them from 80 to 84 wins. Big deal. That's not going to make me run out and buy tickets.

If Braun is suspended 50 games this could be accurate but if he isnt it is makes little sense. We have upgraded at 3B drastically, upgraded at SS (especially defensively) and downgraded at 1B drastically. It is probably going to be a wash. Casey was horrible last year. Right now we need a couple bullpen arms and Braun to be exonerated and we are the favorites to win the division.

And the Cubs are horrible. They dont have a 1B or 3B. Their rotation is bad outside Garza and their bullpen has issues. On offense they have one impact bat in Castro (and even his numbers arent great). They have guys like Byrd, Barney, Soto, and Soriano. Even with Fielder they are not that great next year.

 

[bucksman4]

MLB Network and ESPN are taking the liberty of assuming McGehee is going to be playing 1B next year and ARam at 3B. No mention whatsoever of Mat Gamel.

[brettac1]

MLB Network and ESPN are taking the liberty of assuming McGehee is going to be playing 1B next year and ARam at 3B. No mention whatsoever of Mat Gamel.

I'm a big fan of this move as long as McGehee isn't playing 1B.

[TheCrew07]

On the surface I'm not thrilled about this signing. I'm not crazy about the years, and I resigned myself to the idea that we'd be paying an 8 digit salary for him at the end of last week.

 

I haven't read any of the thread but based on history I figure I'll be in the minority once again since I'm not raving about what a genius Melvin is. I would have preferred to give youth a shot at 3B instead of going the much more expensive proven veteran route. I don't despise the deal, I'm just apprehensive at the long-term prospects of the signing. It's not an organization killing contract if he gets hurt and doesn't play, but I can't help but think we overpaid and he won't hit like he did last year for the duration of the contract, nor do I expect him to play more than 130 games in any season. He seems to have a DL stint or 2 every year and he's only getting older, I should probably check baseball-ref to see what he's played but I really don't have the time to fully research him right now.

 

A defensive upgrade would have been nice, but even if he's a small step down from McGehee (which would be admittedly horrible), he's a net + using 2011 stats which is all most people will care about.

[bucksman4]

On a normal day, this thread would have over 15 pages already. I think the air has been sucked out of the Brewers' fan's balloon over the last few days that we're all kind of just ho hum and can't really get all that excited about any lineup that may not include Ryan Braun.

[prophet]

I'm kind of surprised some thought the Brewers were a contender in the divison before this and Braun's issue came up, much less the WS. I didn't think so. Then with Braun having to sit for 50 games, I didn't think they were even a .500 team. (I'm not a believer that Gamel is any kind of answer at 1B.)

 

Now with Ramirez, and Braun still out for 50 games, I'm upgrading them to a .500 team.

You thought a team that won 96 games last year and lost one key player was no longer a contender? Yeah, you're definitely in the minority on this board.

I always try to be optimistic, and I hope Braun is found innocent, but most likely we lost our best player for a third of the season, and our second best player to free agency. Plus, they aren't just key players, they are exceptional game changing players. Unless our pitching staff is lights out, I think .500 is about right. You just can't lose two elite players, that carried our lineup many times, and expect much else in my opinion. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[GAME05]

50 games isn't the end of the world. now we have a SS who doesn't have to backpedal for any ball not hit directly at him, and we just signed the best FA 3rd Baseman on the market to fill the black hole we had there last year. what's not to get excited about?

 

the massive offensive upgrade at 3B probably outweighs the offensive downturn at 1B, plus we've upgraded three positions defensively. and our bench is better. maybe we've got a better overall team this year than last year.

 

who cares of ARam was a Cub. so what? you think the Cardinals wouldn't want Fielder right now because he untucks his shirt? i hope we're not all getting a little bit spoiled here. i don't think there's anything DM could have done better this offseason. Fielder was already gone and so he went out and made big upgrades at our two weakest positions, spending money that nobody thought he really had.

[YoungGeezy]

"Next if we didn't do this and Braun is not over turned, we'd be in trouble. Of course I read the people who are like Gindl is ready and this guy is ready but fact is we do not know that one bit and to put 50 games on it is not a chance worth taking.

 

Morgan LF

Gomez CF

Weeks 2B

Hart RF

Gamel 1B

Green/McGehee 3B

Lucroy C

Gonzalez SS

 

Not what you have inmind for a WS contender. Ramirez gives us the legit clean-up hitter to keep lineup a float until Ryan's back."

 

 

I'm kind of surprised some thought the Brewers were a contender in the divison before this and Braun's issue came up, much less the WS. I didn't think so. Then with Braun having to sit for 50 games, I didn't think they were even a .500 team. (I'm not a believer that Gamel is any kind of answer at 1B.)

 

Now with Ramirez, and Braun still out for 50 games, I'm upgrading them to a .500 team.

So a 96 win team drops to maybe a 82 win team because they lost Fielder and Yuni? We only return our WHOLE starting staff plus depth with Estrada, Parra, Fiers, Peralta able to step in. K-Rod and Ax turning any game they come into a 7 inning game. Essentially we traded Fielder for ARam. .290 ave 40hrs 110 RBIS .950+ OPS for .290 25+ 95 rbi's .900 OPS (rough averages) that ALONE will drop us from 96 wins to 82? Braun may miss 50 but as long as we can be right around at least 24-26 - 27-23 during that time which is very possible, we still have a good chance to make a run. Cards=down Cubs=Down Astros=the Astros Pirates= the Pirates (but improving) and Reds= who knows after how poorly they played this year. Central will be down this year compared to the last couple. It's wide and with our staff we no longer need 5-6-7 runs a game to stand a chance to win

[valpocrewsader]

Ugh. I couldn't wait to see Green at 3B and Gamel at 1B next year. Young, talented players and dirt cheap. Instead, we give a 35 year old a salary 10 times that of Green's ... and to a three year contract. Can't wait to watch old man Ramirez' decline ... gonna love that lazy attitude, bum shoulders, and slowing bat speed for the next three years of my Brewers fandom!

 

I'm sure I'm being partly clouded by the fact that Aramis is a giant tool who I hate with undying passion for being a cocky jag and having one of the all-time worst "punch me in the face 'cos my ugly d-bag smirky face is asking for it" faces and I can't possibly imagine ever rooting for him, but beyond that I'm nearly certain I rationally dislike this deal from a financial standpoint, too. There's very little bang-for-the-buck here, a decent chance we'll regret the contract long before it's done, and all at the expense of playing time for the young guys and financial flexibility to spend better elsewhere. (And for the sake of adding an odious, off-putting tool of an MLB player!)

 

This would be like the Packers signing Moss or Owens a few years ago. I'm sure some fans would be okay with anything that made it more likely the team would be better, while others (like me) would rather take our chances with players that didn't make us retch to support them.

 

Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

[MNBrew]

Given the obvious caveat that they play different positions, Ramirez seems a bit of a similar case to Furcal -- very legit talent, but aging & with durability concerns. I don't like that the contract's a three-year deal, but I really like the addition of Ramirez. Third base is such a weak position around the league right now; the Brewers could well wind up having the best 3B in the NL next season.

If it's Ramirez at 3B and Gamel at 1B, I sure like the prospect of Green stepping into the lineup Ramirez gets a day off or if/when Ramirez misses time due to injury. . . . Even if Casey's gone, our corner IF depth is strong.

 

Following up YoungGeezy's point, you've also gotta like big-time having K-Rod all year (not the cost, just the quality). Think how many games Loe blew all by himself because there was no one better on the team (and healthy, which Hawkins & Saito weren't then) at the time to pitch the 8th inning!

 

I think it's way too early to get overly down about Fielder gone & the possible Braun suspension. The rest of the division has major flaws except St. Louis, which still lost one of baseball's best all-around 1B ever while *all* we lost was one of this generation's best-hitting 1B in Fielder. We still have the division's best rotation with a strong #6 starter already on hand in Estrada, plus other promising young starters (Fiers, Peralta, with Rogers & Rivas in the pipeline and considerations for roster spots last year, so at least there's some depth) pushing for roster spots, too -- which is light years better than last ST when they couldn't identify a #6 starter to take Greinke's spot even after the season had started (so we traded for *ugh* Sergio Mitre, who wasn't terrible but who also really wasn't much of a plus, either).

[YoungGeezy]

Didn't readthis the last page before my comment so it is a little late but I agree of course that we will not drop to 82 win team because we traded Fielder for Aramis and Yuni for Gonzalez. This isn't the NBA, 50 games is managable with our pitching staff.

 

As for defense, at least we have Gonzalez. Last year our whole left side had zero range and struggled. This year Gozalez still has plenty of range and will save a lot of runs. Takes pressure off of Ramirez

[logan82]

Gamel/Ramirez 2012 will probably outproduce Fielder/McGehee 2011. Gamel/Gonzales/Ramirez is probably better defensively than Fielder/Betancourt/McGehee. Not a lot better but better. Ramirez is probably the worst defender at his position out of those 6 guys. If you believe that the Brewers were a 96 win true talent team last year I am not sure how you could go much lower than 94 even with Braun out for 50 games.

Fielder is worse than Ramirez defensively and Betancourt is for sure too. Gamel most likely is as well. McGehee is actually underrated defensively on this board so he is better than Aramis and Gonzalez obviously is as the only good defensive player in the bunch.

I would agree if Gamel was going to play at 3B. At 1B we almost completely eliminate his biggest weakness(throwing) and his peer group is much much worse than it would be at 3B. I think Gamel will be an average or better defender at 1B.