Aramis Ramirez to Brewers - 3/$32 + $4M buyout for 2015

[chadomac]

I could definitely see Ramirez moving over to 1B anytime over the life of his contract... which is kind of a nice option to have.

[Oldcity]

Don't know about the entire article, but I agree with every point they made on Ramirez. I hated the deal the second it broke. He's already a first baseman, he's getting old, he's injury-prone, and he'll be making $16 million in 2014. Ugh.

[Oldcity]

So who were we supposed to spend this money on to upgrade SS and 1B?

Trade for a shortstop? Upgrade the starting rotation by signing Edwin Jackson or Roy Oswalt? Trade for a starting pitcher? Sign Saito and have boatloads left over? I could keep going...

[jerichoholicninja]

Stop with the irrelevant stats. How many RBIs will he get? Not nearly as many as prince and we all know that's the only thing that matters.

Was that supposed to be in blue?

[JohnBriggs12]

Think what you guys will. But living in Chicago area, I often got to hear the commentary by the Cubs own telecast team of Brenley and Kasper and while they marveled at his ability to hit the first pitch, they also questioned the value of that approach in that the Cubs rarely ran up the opposing team starter's pitch counts. Then there was he's early season power outage. Ramirez had 1 HR and 17 RBI in the first 46 games, while the Cubs were burying themselves in the standings. If he starts out like that with Braun out for 50, the Brewers are in deep trouble.

[umphrey]

Don't know about the entire article, but I agree with every point they made on Ramirez. I hated the deal the second it broke. He's already a first baseman, he's getting old, he's injury-prone, and he'll be making $16 million in 2014. Ugh.

Is it so terrible to pay a reliable middle of the order 3B/1B $12M per year with a 3 year commitment? Also all that matters is that he's making $12M per, not $16M in 2014. It's actually $6M, $10M, $16M, $4M and it's cheaper for us to pay him that big number in 2014 and defer $4M all the way until 2015.

 

Although, I don't like his 'first pitch' mentality, but if he produces with it I won't complain.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Brewers have to hope ARam stays relatively healthy - not something he's been great at doing over the past few years. Also, in seeing Ramirez play during his Cubs career while living in their television market, he's a notoriously slow starter. I'm hoping playing his home games inside a climate-controlled environment through April-May instead of at Wrigley will help his production.

 

Ramirez has had the reputation for putting up solid season-long stats, but getting the bulk of his production when the team is out of contention. I don't think that's entirely fair, since he's been on some poorly constructed teams that had unrealistic expectations through the years. I think the change of scenery will be a good thing for him.

 

If Ramirez doesn't break down with nagging injuries, he'll be worth the contract they gave him - I'm not confident that will happen over the life of the deal, though. With the paramaters of his deal, he may be a candidate to put on the trade block in 2013 or 2014 if the Brewers fall out of contention and need a quick way to lower payroll and rebuild.

[clancyphile]

FanGraphs has ranked the Brewer signing of Ramirez as the 7th worst transaction in the offseason. To quote FanGraphs: "he's a lousy defender who is headed for his age 34 season ...was basically replacement level in 2010...and blocked off Taylor Green...who could have provided some value at 3B and allowed the Brewers to spend their money upgrading at shortstop or first base".

 

They went on to say he's probably worth the money in 2012 but that "they have locked themselves into declining performance at the position..."

 

Amen to all of that. I couldn't agree more.

And who would we have spent this money on exactly?

 

SS:

1. Jimmy Rollins: We would have had to have a bigger contract than Ramirez' (3 years $36m) to get Rollins (3 years $38m) out of Philadelphia

2. Jose Reyes: We most certainly would've had to top the 6 years $106 million Miami gave to Reyes.

 

Anyone else who was a FA at SS is on par with Alex Gonzalez.

 

1B:

1. Prince Fielder: I somehow doubt A-Ram's deal precluded us from offering Prince the equivalent Detroit deal. In other words, I doubt that we offered 9 years $178m to Prince and the $36 million we gave to A-Ram made Prince go to Detroit.

2. Albert Pujols: HAHA!

 

So who were we supposed to spend this money on to upgrade SS and 1B?

 

Well, how do you think 3B Taylor Green/SS Jimmy Rollins stacks up to 3B A-Ram/SS Gonzalez? Green + Rollins would arguably be cheaper over the course of the deal as well.

As for matching Detroit's ultimately successful offer to Prince... deciding not to block Green or Gamel at third might have meant the Crew keeps Fielder, even though payroll climbs to $110 million or so. In that third year of the deal, which is the biggest risk, the difference between Fielder in his prime and Ramirez is only about $7.5 million. Even if Braun gets suspended, the Crew would have the option of plugging Gamel or Green in left field for 50 games. If one or the other struggles, the Crew plugs the guy playing well at third. If both do well, the Crew has the option of putting Hart on the block for salary relief and young prospects/undervalued players.

[HiAndTight]

I don't understand how people have convinced themselves that Jimmy Rollins, a fixure in Philly, and a player playing on the best team in the National League would have just been had by the Brewers for the same money he signed with the Phillies for.

 

Why uproot his family when he's played his entire career in Philly and they're a better team than us? More likely, it'd have cost significantly more money than the Phillies signed him for.

 

It's like arguing that the Brewers and Phillies are on the same level in terms of attracting Free Agents, not to mention, potential HOF players who've already got 12 years in playing for the Phillies.

[monty57]

Don't know about the entire article, but I agree with every point they made on Ramirez. I hated the deal the second it broke. He's already a first baseman, he's getting old, he's injury-prone, and he'll be making $16 million in 2014. Ugh.

Is it so terrible to pay a reliable middle of the order 3B/1B $12M per year with a 3 year commitment? Also all that matters is that he's making $12M per, not $16M in 2014. It's actually $6M, $10M, $16M, $4M and it's cheaper for us to pay him that big number in 2014 and defer $4M all the way until 2015.

 

Although, I don't like his 'first pitch' mentality, but if he produces with it I won't complain.

 

 

Not necessarily. My guess is that they structured the contract the way they did because they couldn't afford any more payroll this year. By backloading it the way they did, they basically made him untradeable, as few if any teams are going to be willing to pay the 2014 version of Ramirez $16MM + a $4MM buyout unless the Brewers pick up a good share of the contract. In my opinion, they would have been better off paying him $12MM / year, but again, they probably couldn't afford the extra money this year.

 

The Ramirez signing was definitely a "go for it" move for 2012, and I just hope he holds up (both physically and production-wise) for the next few years. I also hope his signing doesn't keep us from extending Greinke, who is far more important for the continued success of the Brewers beyond 2012.

[HiAndTight]

So who were we supposed to spend this money on to upgrade SS and 1B?

Trade for a shortstop? Upgrade the starting rotation by signing Edwin Jackson or Roy Oswalt? Trade for a starting pitcher? Sign Saito and have boatloads left over? I could keep going...

Trade for what shortstop and trade who? Stephen Drew? Alright, sounds good. Lets give up who exactly for a SS as good as he is coming off injury? And if not him, who? Scutaro is a great idea if you knew at the start of Free Agency what he'd be traded for.

 

2-So rather than a significant upgrade at 3rd with a proven big leaguer, we should have signed Edwin Jackson, who by the way, when we signed Aram was looking for 4 years at 12 million per?

 

3-Roy Oswalt? The guy who has expressed almost no interest in Milwaukee and has been particularly interested in a very limited amount of teams?

 

4-Sign Saito? Do you really think that Signing Aram stopped us from signing Saito? I don't think the two are the least bit related.

 

 

So I would have to ask you to keep going. And not just assume that whatever another player signed for could have signed for the same amount for the Brewers, ie, Rollins signing for equal money to Aram does not mean we could have gotten Rollins for that same price.

[thebruce44]

Think what you guys will. But living in Chicago area, I often got to hear the commentary by the Cubs own telecast team of Brenley and Kasper and while they marveled at his ability to hit the first pitch, they also questioned the value of that approach in that the Cubs rarely ran up the opposing team starter's pitch counts. Then there was he's early season power outage. Ramirez had 1 HR and 17 RBI in the first 46 games, while the Cubs were burying themselves in the standings. If he starts out like that with Braun out for 50, the Brewers are in deep trouble.

Its not easy to hit in April/May at Wrigley. And Brenley is an idiot. I live in Chicago too so I have to deal with his babbling on a regular basis.

[RockCoCougars]

Why would the Brewers want Rollins for a big money deal? He's always been hugely overrated in my view. Look at his stats since the MVP year, he would have done little to fill the offensive hole that Fielder left. As stated above, I'm not 100 percent sold on Ramirez either, but I would have been irate had they signed Rollins.

 

By the way, this guy also had the Rollins signing on his 'best offseason moves' list.

[umphrey]

Don't know about the entire article, but I agree with every point they made on Ramirez. I hated the deal the second it broke. He's already a first baseman, he's getting old, he's injury-prone, and he'll be making $16 million in 2014. Ugh.

Is it so terrible to pay a reliable middle of the order 3B/1B $12M per year with a 3 year commitment? Also all that matters is that he's making $12M per, not $16M in 2014. It's actually $6M, $10M, $16M, $4M and it's cheaper for us to pay him that big number in 2014 and defer $4M all the way until 2015.

 

Although, I don't like his 'first pitch' mentality, but if he produces with it I won't complain.

 

 

Not necessarily. My guess is that they structured the contract the way they did because they couldn't afford any more payroll this year. By backloading it the way they did, they basically made him untradeable, as few if any teams are going to be willing to pay the 2014 version of Ramirez $16MM + a $4MM buyout unless the Brewers pick up a good share of the contract. In my opinion, they would have been better off paying him $12MM / year, but again, they probably couldn't afford the extra money this year.

 

The Ramirez signing was definitely a "go for it" move for 2012, and I just hope he holds up (both physically and production-wise) for the next few years. I also hope his signing doesn't keep us from extending Greinke, who is far more important for the continued success of the Brewers beyond 2012.

Disagree. It's the same money going in or coming out and it doesn't matter what you label it in the ledger. If they trade him with 1 year left and $20M effectively left on his contract they could send the other team money so they can pay it to Ramirez...or the Brewers can pay Ramirez that same money now and not have to send it away in a trade.

 

Deferring money is always good for the team. If they want to, they can essentially choose to make him into a $12M per year player at any time by just putting the difference in the bank and labeling it the 'Aramis fund'. Even if they want to trade him, they can shop Aramis and the 'Aramis fund' package and there you go, his value is $12M per year.

[Ennder]

The Brewers have to hope ARam stays relatively healthy - not something he's been great at doing over the past few years. Also, in seeing Ramirez play during his Cubs career while living in their television market, he's a notoriously slow starter. I'm hoping playing his home games inside a climate-controlled environment through April-May instead of at Wrigley will help his production

 

He has had one major injury that killed one season and lowered the value of another one. The small little injuries have still kept him at a 3.5+ WAR player. Like I showed in my post above if he loses 0.5 WAR a year due to age regression he still comes out a little bit of a win for the team. If he does suffer a major injury it is a loss but that is true of any player in the game. As for the April-May production, Wrigley is a big time pitchers park in those months which explains most of the slow starts and power tends to come later in the year which explains the rest. I would imagine it evens out a little bit in miller park. I don't see it as him showing up only when the games don't matter though because the years they have made the playoffs he still got hot later in the year for the playoff run.

[Warning Track Power]

So who were we supposed to spend this money on to upgrade SS and 1B?

Trade for a shortstop? Upgrade the starting rotation by signing Edwin Jackson or Roy Oswalt? Trade for a starting pitcher? Sign Saito and have boatloads left over? I could keep going...

The article states we should have spent A-Ram money to upgrade SS and 1B specifically. Not signing SP or trading for SP. Not signing a RP. Upgrading SS and 1B. Of course we can argue how best to spend money in other places but the article said we blew it by not allocating those dollars to SS or 1B. My point is there was no one who was out there where we could have REALISTICALLY brought in at those two spots where the A-Ram deal precluded our ability to do so.

 

[RockCoCougars]

The article states we should have spent A-Ram money to upgrade SS and 1B specifically. Not signing SP or trading for SP. Not signing a RP. Upgrading SS and 1B. Of course we can argue how best to spend money in other places but the article said we blew it by not allocating those dollars to SS or 1B

 

The author fails to mention how the Brewers (at least on paper) did upgrade SS by signing Gonzalez. I would have preferred Barmes, but who else was out there? Rollins. I have a hard time believing this guy would have lauded the Brewers as much as he did the Phillies had they signed Rollins to the same deal. As for 1B, who was out there, Carlos Pena? Pass.

[brewtank34]

Sure wouldn't mind seeing him get a hit this spring. Just sayin'

[monty57]

Sure wouldn't mind seeing him get a hit this spring. Just sayin'

 

I figure that he's moved up his "usual slow start" to Spring Training, so that he's going to get red hot as soon as the season starts :-)

[Madtown343]

Braun and Aramis have combined for 1 hit and the offense has shown some nice

Potential from other spots. Those two will contribute once the games count and this offense will start to look a little deeper than some may have thought

[dlk9s]

Just remember how many guys raked in ST in the past, made the team, and then remembered they weren't that good. Don't worry about ST stats.

[Madtown343]

Completely agree^ I still would like to see Braun start to hit the ball a little.

[GormanHarvey]

Aramis had 2 doubles yesterday

[3and2Fastball]

Aramis Ramirez is a reliable pro who, if healthy, will produce. He's good for 25 HR's, 90 RBI's and a .350 OBP year in and year out. He's also equally solid vs LHP & RHP so he never needs a platoon.

[reillymcshane]

I just thought I'd bump this and say A-Ram has been great in 2013. I wasn't thrilled with the signing when it happened. I worried (and still do worry a little) that age will catch up to him, but the guy has been stellar - especially after the slow start. He's even looked okay defensively, which was a big concern for many people.

 

Kudo to Aramis for not getting overwhelmed after the slow start. I hope he can repeat his performance in 2013 (and beyond).