Per ESPN: Braun Tests Positive, May Face 50 Game Suspension (Part 1)

[ninja33]

interesting. I think I mentioned DHEA earlier when talking about Extenze or other similar supplements....I had no idea that it wasn't on the banned list. I assumed it would be, doesn't make any sense that it's not.

 

That's probably the best guess I've heard so far. Might be the funniest thing ever if Braun taking Extenze triggered this (obviously there are plenty of other supplements that contain DHEA, including straight up DHEA, so I'm sure that's not it. but still, hilarious thought), assuming there's no suspension to follow it.

[burnzy24]

In regards to Mass' linked article, on one hand, it proves there has been at least one successful defense. The "13-0 record" doesn't seem in mean no failed test has ever been overturned. Rather, it seems to mean that normally baseball does a good job of keeping things under wraps until they are absolutely sure the player is guilty, and anything they overturn never gets out. That's good, as I wish this Braun leak had never happened.

This is what got me listening to TJ Quinn's interview that Mass posted. He seems to think that that 13-0 record automatically proves Braun's guilt and justifies him publishing the story. I also had a hard time understanding when Quinn said he know about the "insanely high" testosterone levels in the test before he published the story but intentionally left that part out because Braun's camp wouldn't tell him the exact numbers. Well T.J. it is under arbitration and just because someone in the commissioner's office decided to tell you something that they shouldn't have doesn't mean everyone has to. Quinn did not come off as impartial in the interview, I wish the interviewer would have asked him how damaging he thought this story could be to Braun's reputation if the test is thrown out.

[pebadger]

FYI:

 

Here is some of the documention from MLB relating to the operation of the MLB drug policy (776kB PDF). For those inclined to reading legal documents.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

It's interesting to note all the confidentiality lnguage in the document. It's more interesting to note that there is nothing within the four corners of the policy that imposes any penalties for running afoul of the confidentiality prohibitions.

[jhart05]

Without Fielder, I thought they would miss the playoffs. (I have no faith in Mat Gamel at 1B.)

 

Now without Braun for 50 games, I don't think they finish above .500.

[TheCrew]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

[pebadger]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

Possible, but if Braun's people were to leak it, they sure as heck wouldn't take it to Fainaru-Wada. And they would have leaked something much more favorable to their side than the simple story that came out which basically stated "Braun is a doper". This came from MLB or the office of one of the other parties now invovled in the resolution of this case (lab, arbitrators, etc). If we're speculating, it's much more likely this came out because somebody really thinks Braun is guilty and is worried he "might get away with it".

[fondybrewfan]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

On the other hand though a reigning MVP has never tested positive before and the juicy gossip might have been too hard to keep secret. It still would surpise me that Braun's folks would leak this; especially if they thought they had any chance of winning the appeal. The only way they would leak anything is if they knew Braun was guilty as sin and wanted to try to sway the court of public opinion.

 

To bad Braun's PR team put the ax to Braun's idea to hold a press conference explaining everything; it would certainly clear things up a bit. Obviously he couldn't talk about it without screwing up his defense

 

I'll believe that Braun's camp has a valid defense when I see it; all that we know now could be PR spin for all we know. It just sucks that this is going to drag on for a month and I am sure DM and Mark A would like to know if Braun is going to be out until June. If I were them I think you have to assume that he will be.

 

[brettac1]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

On the other hand though a reigning MVP has never tested positive before and the juicy gossip might have been too hard to keep secret. It still would surpise me that Braun's folks would leak this; especially if they thought they had any chance of winning the appeal. The only way they would leak anything is if they knew Braun was guilty as sin and wanted to try to sway the court of public opinion.

 

To bad Braun's PR team put the ax to Braun's idea to hold a press conference explaining everything; it would certainly clear things up a bit. Obviously he couldn't talk about it without screwing up his defense

 

I'll believe that Braun's camp has a valid defense when I see it; all that we know now could be PR spin for all we know. It just sucks that this is going to drag on for a month and I am sure DM and Mark A would like to know if Braun is going to be out until June. If I were them I think you have to assume that he will be.

Yeah, I pretty much am leaning toward it being PR spin because, like others said, they had never had a leak before. Even with Palmeiro, when investigative reporting on steroids was at it's all-time high, and he had just recently testified, etc. Just seems odd, especially when one would think the commissioner's office is going to try to protect Milwaukee, as well.

[Schlitz001]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

It would be a terrible idea for Braun's people to leak this story. Once it becomes public, it becomes that much harder for MLB to overturn it. As someone mentioned earlier, it becomes a slippery slope once MLB overturns even one case of a positive test. If they overturn this, then people can start going back and looking at other failed tests and questioning them. In a lot (if not most) of the previous positive tests, the accused have claimed innocence.

As Jimmy Rollins hinted, there may have been overturned results in the past that MLB has kept quiet. As soon as these results became public, Braun loses a big chance of getting them overturned.

 

[brettac1]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

It would be a terrible idea for Braun's people to leak this story. Once it becomes public, it becomes that much harder for MLB to overturn it. As someone mentioned earlier, it becomes a slippery slope once MLB overturns even one case of a positive test. If they overturn this, then people can start going back and looking at other failed tests and questioning them. In a lot (if not most) of the previous positive tests, the accused have claimed innocence.

As Jimmy Rollins hinted, there may have been overturned results in the past that MLB has kept quiet. As soon as these results became public, Braun loses a big chance of getting them overturned.

 

If they leaked it, it would be because he was guilty.

[clancyphile]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

Possible, but if Braun's people were to leak it, they sure as heck wouldn't take it to Fainaru-Wada. And they would have leaked something much more favorable to their side than the simple story that came out which basically stated "Braun is a doper". This came from MLB or the office of one of the other parties now invovled in the resolution of this case (lab, arbitrators, etc). If we're speculating, it's much more likely this came out because somebody really thinks Braun is guilty and is worried he "might get away with it".

Or they want to protect the testing process - and are trying to cover up the fact that they botched it. Leak the positive result...

[RyDogg66]

I havent weighed in on this yet, but have been following this thread and all the news since it broke on Saturday night.

 

My favorite player on my favorite team in my favorite sport. After seeing all the theories and ideas and questions tossed out, I have finally come to terms with his guilt. As that ESPN investigator said in the link Mass Haas posted, you have to be pretty dumb to let your T/E levels get to where Braun's got. It should also be pretty easy to cheat and keep your levels at or below the 4:1 level that has been mentioned, which is the alarm point. My guess is he has been doing this all along, but just got a dose or two out of whack and it came back to bite him.

 

In the words of Junior Spivey, "I'm devastated."

[Bnowell4evr]

I havent weighed in on this yet, but have been following this thread and all the news since it broke on Saturday night.

 

My favorite player on my favorite team in my favorite sport. After seeing all the theories and ideas and questions tossed out, I have finally come to terms with his guilt. As that ESPN investigator said in the link Mass Haas posted, you have to be pretty dumb to let your T/E levels get to where Braun's got. It should also be pretty easy to cheat and keep your levels at or below the 4:1 level that has been mentioned, which is the alarm point. My guess is he has been doing this all along, but just got a dose or two out of whack and it came back to bite him.

 

In the words of Junior Spivey, "I'm devastated."

Welcome to my world http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[chadomac]

I am also devastated... but because of all the conflicting information and LACK of information thus far, I'm going to hold onto hope that something fishy is going on. Waiting til next month to know is going to be tough.

[Schlitz001]

Even if Braun is super, highest testosterone ever guilty, I still can't wrap my head around him wanting this to be public information if there is even a slight chance that something with the samples would exonerate him. If he wanted to expose a bad testing system, why not just wait for MLB's decision and then lay out your defense to the public. At this point Braun's quote for the newspapers is, "It's BS". The details are very murky and he's not coming off looking very good.

[pebadger]

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

Possible, but if Braun's people were to leak it, they sure as heck wouldn't take it to Fainaru-Wada. And they would have leaked something much more favorable to their side than the simple story that came out which basically stated "Braun is a doper". This came from MLB or the office of one of the other parties now invovled in the resolution of this case (lab, arbitrators, etc). If we're speculating, it's much more likely this came out because somebody really thinks Braun is guilty and is worried he "might get away with it".

Or they want to protect the testing process - and are trying to cover up the fact that they botched it. Leak the positive result...

Right. Or they have a result they really can't explain but can declare a positive under their own loose criteria and by getting it out there first they frame the debate to their liking. Regardless, almost all signs point to the leak coming from a party not in Braun's camp.

Still looking for more info on this regarding process and procedures. Wondering if there is any potential for Braun's camp to request an open hearing on his appeal. I tend to doubt it as intense examination of how this all really works is the last thing many of the interested parties want in cases like these. The Floyd Landis public hearing showed how much of a kangaroo court these things tend to be, and I know there was considerable agitation with WADA to close down the "loophole" that opened that window into how the system works. I don't know what the rules state with respect to the MLB procedures, but I'd bet they're heavily patterned on what WADA does.

[jjfanec]

Isn't it possible that Braun's camp could have leaked the info to get out ahead on it and portray him as the little athlete against the big bad testing system?

 

I'm not saying I think that is the case, just that it's an angle that is possible.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. If you take a step back, that seems a lot more likely considering MLB has never leaked one before.

Really? I see no reason why a player would leak a test result like this. The only people who think Braun is innocent are a handful of Brewer fans and his family and friends. He is guilty in almost everyone else's eyes. I see no logical reason to do this. Fans support the testing for steroids so Braun isnt winning any sympathy from fans. Even if he gets cleared he is guilty in most people's minds. Leaking it would have been an incredibly stupid idea and I am pretty sure they would have said banned substance instead of PED if they leaked it.

One thing I would like to know is the date Braun heard about the test result. Not for any insight into whether he is guilty but because there was a point where he looked like he had no focus at the plate whatsoever in the St. Louis series. He had been dialed in before that. I wonder if the test hurt his focus. It could have been fear because he had been caught or frustration because he thought he was innocent, but he definitely did a 180 hitting in that series

 

[TheCrew]

Even if Braun is super, highest testosterone ever guilty, I still can't wrap my head around him wanting this to be public information if there is even a slight chance that something with the samples would exonerate him. If he wanted to expose a bad testing system, why not just wait for MLB's decision and then lay out your defense to the public. At this point Braun's quote for the newspapers is, "It's BS". The details are very murky and he's not coming off looking very good.

As little benefit as Braun might have, MLB would have far less benefit. LAST thing in the world they want right now is one of their young stars turning up a positive test - it brings into question the entire drug testing system that has been in place in the minors.

 

I find it far more likely that it came from Braun's camp, especially considering his camp is still the one doing all the chattering right now - MLB has been silent this whole time.

[TheCrew]

I am pretty sure they would have said banned substance instead of PED if they leaked it.

 

Just an FYI, That has adamantly been said by Braun's camp since Saturday. (and is still being said FWIW)

 

Edit: To answer your other question, I believe I read he was informed during the St. Louis series.

[NievesNoNO]

I havent weighed in on this yet, but have been following this thread and all the news since it broke on Saturday night.

 

 

My favorite player on my favorite team in my favorite sport. After seeing all the theories and ideas and questions tossed out, I have finally come to terms with his guilt. As that ESPN investigator said in the link Mass Haas posted, you have to be pretty dumb to let your T/E levels get to where Braun's got. It should also be pretty easy to cheat and keep your levels at or below the 4:1 level that has been mentioned, which is the alarm point. My guess is he has been doing this all along, but just got a dose or two out of whack and it came back to bite him.

 

 

In the words of Junior Spivey, "I'm devastated."

This pretty much sums up my feelings as well. The only "highly unusual circumstance" here is that Braun is one of the games biggest stars in the prime of his career while he's getting busted. If he's really not guilty why not just get your face in front of a camera and say your innocent. All that legal stuff is crap with regards to not being able to make a statement and speaking through PR people. BS, get your face in front of a camera and tell "your side" of the story then. However, if you need the extra time to make sure all your 'facts' are lined up then by all means take the extra time.

 

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