Per ESPN: Braun Tests Positive, May Face 50 Game Suspension (Part 1)

[PKBadger]

I really hope Braun is telling the truth...the on the field frustrating part though is that it could last until January. We all know we have holes to fill and not knowing if we have Braun for the first 50 games or not doesn't help that. I wish this could be resolved sooner so that if he is cleared it still doesn't ruin our off-season.

I was of the opinion that we needed A-Ram's bat in the lineup before this news about Braun. But I guess that we could need an interim corner outfielder.

[brettac1]

It's just the way of the world. When there is a 24 hour news cycle, things will always be reported when they are not confirmed, etc. People end up uninformed/partially informed, and rely on the first version of the story as the official one all the time. It's like how the original story is printed on the front page, but the correction is on page 12C.... Basically, it doesn't matter once the cat is out of the bag, because he will be branded as a steroid user among the idiots that make up the majority of sports fans. There is a general lack of nuance.

 

All that said, I don't care if he did some sort of PED. What makes me mad is that he was dumb enough to get caught in this day and age.

[Bernman23]

Would Viagra or Cialis jack your Testosterone?

I think in some of those penis enlargement pill ads that are on late at night, they claim to raise your testosterone as well. Testing positive for that I'd imagine would be a highly unusual circumstance and unprecedented in MLB. I could also see why he wouldn't want to divulge the details to the public if that were the misunderstanding. That's what I'm hoping for. Braun would be exonerated and have another endorsement to ad to his list.

[The Truth]

I was of the opinion that we needed A-Ram's bat in the lineup before this news about Braun. But I guess that we could need an interim corner outfielder.

Caleb Gindl is ready to fill in. And Gomez playing more in CF with Morgan in LF would improve our defense

 

But again, I believe Braun and don't think he'll be suspended. And I bet he comes back with a chip on his shoulder and hits 40 HR's and bats .340

[brettac1]

Would Viagra or Cialis jack your Testosterone?

I think in some of those penis enlargement pill ads that are on late at night, they claim to raise your testosterone as well. Testing positive for that I'd imagine would be a highly unusual circumstance and unprecedented in MLB. I could also see why he wouldn't want to divulge the details to the public if that were the misunderstanding. That's what I'm hoping for. Braun would be exonerated and have another endorsement to ad to his list.

If he has an elevated testosterone level that wasn't natural, it really doesn't matter where it came from. That's a PED.

[pebadger]

For the Xth time: a T/E ratio can be "elevated" without the T portion being elevated. For example, if your T is 2 and you E is 0.5, you ratio will be 4:1. There have been numerous doping cases in which the T/E tripwire was activates by a ratio that was the result of an abnormally low E portion of the ratio.

 

In any event, the T/E ratio really isn't going to be the heart of the dispute. The heart of the dispute is the CIR or GC result which purports to be a "positive". These results are not as simple to read as when a woman pees on a stick and a plus sign shows up. They just aren't.

[YoungGeezy]

What viagra mainly does is open you blood vessels causing more oxygen into the blood stream (and believe increase the flow) for increased energy and endurence. If I would pop a pill and hit the gym or run a mid/long distance race in a track meet, I'd prob have an amazing workout or set a PR in a race. It is a legal PED but most won't use it for an event for obvisious reasons. I have heard of pro athletes using it has a weight training aid (If its just you and your trainer, the 4 hour wood isn't as big of a deal.) Not sure if it really boost testostrone. However I believe, most pre-workout supplements increase testrone levels. Like a Jack3d or Super Pump. There are just normal pills at GNC you can grab to boost Testerone.

 

Really there is just way to much unknown for the whole situation. I just wish all the facts were puto ut and the issue would resolved. I really want to know what makes this case like nothing MLB has ever had before.

 

Overall, PED's do not hit .330, players do. PED's don't rise the the moment and make clutch hits, players do. PED's do not have the potential to create all-stars; genetics, natural ability, and hard work do. In a game like baseball which is all most all skill related, most PED's will just aid those players to be fractions better and slightly increase recovey (still a big deal) however a player must already possess those skills in order to translate them into success. As long as Braun wasn't juicing, on HGH, or the worst of all gene doping. I do not care. All others are fairly minor enhancers, no diferrent than what we can get over the counter legally.

 

Melvin really should have had Ramirez inked last night already. Suspended, Brewers need him, with Braun playing, he is still a huge asset. Plus it would defer attention away from the image of the franchise player whose name and credibility is being destroyed. This is purely IMO. I think they should have signed him at the meeting already

[BREWCREW5]

For the Xth time: a T/E ratio can be "elevated" without the T portion being elevated. For example, if your T is 2 and you E is 0.5, you ratio will be 4:1. There have been numerous doping cases in which the T/E tripwire was activates by a ratio that was the result of an abnormally low E portion of the ratio.

 

In any event, the T/E ratio really isn't going to be the heart of the dispute. The heart of the dispute is the CIR or GC result which purports to be a "positive". These results are not as simple to read as when a woman pees on a stick and a plus sign shows up. They just aren't.

What?

[TheCrew]

Looks like this could take a while. Tom H latest post. Sounds like MLB is shocked by this too. Tom has done a great job with this

I'd have to disagree here. He's once again late to the party and only getting sound bites cause he's the local guy.

[TheCrew]

Overall, PED's do not hit .330, players do. PED's don't rise the the moment and make clutch hits, players do. PED's do not have the potential to create all-stars; genetics, natural ability, and hard work do. In a game like baseball which is all most all skill related, most PED's will just aid those players to be fractions better and slightly increase recovey (still a big deal) however a player must already possess those skills in order to translate them into success. As long as Braun wasn't juicing, on HGH, or the worst of all gene doping. I do not care. All others are fairly minor enhancers, no diferrent than what we can get over the counter legally.

If PED's don't help improve player performance, explain the glut of HR's from the late 80's to early 2000's when PED abuse ran rampant through MLB.

[ninja33]

What viagra mainly does is open you blood vessels causing more oxygen into the blood stream (and believe increase the flow) for increased energy and endurence. If I would pop a pill and hit the gym or run a mid/long distance race in a track meet, I'd prob have an amazing workout or set a PR in a race. It is a legal PED but most won't use it for an event for obvisious reasons. I have heard of pro athletes using it has a weight training aid (If its just you and your trainer, the 4 hour wood isn't as big of a deal.) Not sure if it really boost testostrone. However I believe, most pre-workout supplements increase testrone levels. Like a Jack3d or Super Pump. There are just normal pills at GNC you can grab to boost Testerone.

Viagra (and similar drugs) pretty specifically target blood vessels in the penis though. There could be a small effect on vessels in skeletal muscles, but I think it would be pretty negligible. I don't think it would do much as an exercise supplement...but i'm not a trainer or anything. Either way it wouldn't boost testosterone.

Someone before mentioned the pills you see in late night ads, like Extenze. Almost all of those contain DHEA or some sort of androgen that is a testosterone precursor. I would imagine they are all on the banned list and have been since they became available. If Braun got caught because of something like that, it's a) embarrassing and b) incredibly dumb

[narwhalattack]

You know, if the substance is not a PED, then it would soften the blow even if Braun's gonna be out for a while. His reputation won't be as damaged.

 

Of course the suspension would still have a detrimental effect on the season itself, but the blow won't hurt as much.

[burnzy24]

Apparently Braun's testosterone levels were double the highest ever tested. Link

 

Is that even physically possible? Couldn't levels that high cause extreme physical harm? Seems fishy. Maybe Braun is telling the truth.

[narwhalattack]

If that's true, perhaps the sample was tainted?

[TheCrew]

From Rotoworld,, pretty good summary:

Ryan Braun's testosterone levels during his

failed drug test were "insanely high, the highest ever for anyone who

has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken," a

source told Teri Thompson of the New York Daily News.

Braun told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on

Saturday that he's "completely innocent" of the PED charge, claiming the

test results were a false positive. Yahoo! Sports' Jeff Passan spoke to

an expert that said false positives results are almost impossible using

MLB's carbon-isotope-ratio test. Thompson's source, however, said

Braun's case involves "highly unusual circumstances." Braun will

probably enlist doctors and health experts in appealing his 50-game

suspension, but players are 0-for-13 against Major League Baseball in

PED test appeals. While his test results are highly unusual, enough so

to potentially call into question the test results, Braun has very

little chance of winning the appeal.

[The Truth]

If the results were twice the levels of testosterone for anyone who has ever taken the test, then Braun is either one of the biggest juicers of all-time (extremely unlikely) or there was some type of problem with the test (much much more likely)

 

I mean, c'mon now, Braun is one of the best right handed hitters in baseball history (in my opinion, he certainly has the stats to back that up in terms of his first several years in MLB). If he was that big of a juicer, he'd be hitting 60-70 HR's a season. There were plenty of balls hit last season that ended up on the warning track or were doubles that, I sincerely believe, would have been HR's if he was a steroid freak

 

Unless you are going to believe that in reality Braun has the natural power of a Jonathan Lucroy type and it is only because of steroids that he averages 30 HR's a season. And I'm just not buying that.

 

Twice the level of testosterone as anyone who has ever taken the test? C'mon now! Its not like he is "Robo-Braun" out there

[jeffy]

"The argument before the appeals board won't be that the original ratio was so high and doesn't make sense," said the source, "but there will be a defense. It's not something he knew or should have known about."

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.co...e-1.990020#ixzz1gGlMD5k7

[randybreuerfan]

I would like to know how past tests for Braun turned out.

[ttsather]

"The argument before the appeals board won't be that the original ratio was so high and doesn't make sense," said the source, "but there will be a defense. It's not something he knew or should have known about."

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.co...e-1.990020#ixzz1gGlMD5k7

This makes it sound like he took something that he didn't know would increase T levels (or decrease E levels). We'll see how it plays out. I could see him being very clear about what he took, why he shouldn't have known, etc., but still getting the 50 game suspension. It'd have to fall on the 'blessed list', right?

[brettac1]

This is just a really weird story.

[fondybrewfan]

Damn he must have taken something spiked with some drug to get that kind of test result. I can't imagine a roider would ever have a ratio that high since they almost surely would have been taking a masking agent as well.

 

This definitely doesn't seem like to prototypical PED case.

[Baldkin]

Overall, PED's do not hit .330, players do. PED's don't rise the the moment and make clutch hits, players do. PED's do not have the potential to create all-stars; genetics, natural ability, and hard work do. In a game like baseball which is all most all skill related, most PED's will just aid those players to be fractions better and slightly increase recovey (still a big deal) however a player must already possess those skills in order to translate them into success. As long as Braun wasn't juicing, on HGH, or the worst of all gene doping. I do not care. All others are fairly minor enhancers, no diferrent than what we can get over the counter legally.

If PED's don't help improve player performance, explain the glut of HR's from the late 80's to early 2000's when PED abuse ran rampant through MLB.

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/GRAPHICS/half-size-PF.jpg

 

The very first discontinuity (not annotated on the graph) is

1910/1911--a relatively modest one by later standards--which marks the

introduction of the cork-center baseball.

 

The next of the discontinuities, and perhaps the most famous, is the

advent in 1921 of the so-called "rabbit ball", a ball juicing that

resulted from the immense popularity of the

emerging hero, Babe Ruth: the Babe's homers made the turnstiles rotate,

so what was good for the Babe was made good for everyone. After that,

one can see clearly--if the anomaly for WW II

is mentally smoothed out--that the rise in power production during the

four decades from 1921 to 1961 was remarkably steady.

 

The next obvious discontinuity is in 1977, the year MLB switched ball

makers from Spalding to Rawlings; the new ball was substantially

livelier. But if we again mentally "splice out"

that jump, we see a continuing downtrend from the mid-60s, one that ran

for about 20 years, to 1981 or 1982, before easing. (The spike of

1986/1987 was an anomaly no one has yet explained,

but it was brief.)

 

The last discontinuity is the ball juicing of 1993 - 1994, which

apparently ensued from a change made then in the ball-manufacturing

process (it looks as if the change introduced the new

ball roughly mid-1993). Subsequent to that jump, the trend looks like a

continuation of the gradual upward movement.

 

To summerize: Unless everyone started juicing exactly at the all star break in 1993 and it all took effect at exactly the same time, they changed the ball.

Here is an edited version of the graph, with the 1993/94 disconnect edited out:

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/GRAPHICS/small-SteroidEra.jpg

Where is the steady power increase from steroids?

[The Truth]

This is just a really weird story.

It really is, and just seems to keep getting more strange by the hour.

 

"According to the source, there are also chain of custody issues

involving the test, which was first performed by Major League Baseball

during the playoffs, then sent to the WADA lab"

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ryan-braun-initial-ped-test-results-insanely-high-nl-mvp-lawyer-insists-client-peds-article-1.990020#ixzz1gGricLfN

[The Truth]

Maybe Braun is telling the truth.

Y'think?!

 

Seems to me that Braun telling the truth is much more likely than him having twice the testosterone levels as anyone who has ever been tested!

[Patrick425]

What is "power factor" and how is it computed? To me it's pretty clear that the HR numbers have gone down since the steroid era. During that era is seemed as if you had to hit at least 50 HRs to win the HR title. Now the high HR numbers are closer to 40 HRs.