Per ESPN: Braun Tests Positive, May Face 50 Game Suspension (Part 1)

[JonnyLungs]

edit: formatting, info in next post

[miggs721]

some new info for Rosenthal on Twitter:

 

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Source: Braun tested positive for a prohibited substance, not a performance-enhancing drug. More coming on FOXSports.com. #Brewers #MLB

[jjfanec]

So now you are hoping Braun's camp confirmed testing positive and claimed they would prove his innocence even though MLB didn't find that he tested positive?

 

OK, there is some serious denial taking place. Don't know what else to say about this...

they confirmed he tested positive for elevated testosterone. Neither braun's camp nor MLB has confirmed what the cause of it was, or when the followup negative test occurred (and what that means relative to the first test). Is it probably going to come back that Braun was doing/taking something he shouldn't have? Very very probable. But until the appeals process is through and a suspension is (or isn't) handed down, we don't have the whole story.

Some may call that denial, some may call that (false) hope. it is what it is

I agree with this completely. I am sick of the people saying that some of us have to consider Braun a cheater without hearing his side of it. Is it more likely he is guilty than it is that he is not? Sure, but I can wait for it all to play out and that doesnt mean I am in denial.

[Bench Coach]

Beast Light]

So now you are hoping Braun's camp confirmed testing positive and claimed they would prove his innocence even though MLB didn't find that he tested positive?

I've added it to my signature in case you missed it, but his camp has not confirmed he tested positive.

A spokesman for Braun confirmed the positive test Saturday and issued a statement: "There are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan's complete innocence and demonstrate there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program. While Ryan has impeccable character and no previous history, unfortunately, because of the process we have to maintain confidentiality and are not able to discuss it any further, but we are confident he will ultimately be exonerated."

 

What is the "case" that they are referring to? The case is testing positive for PED's. Also, notice state the goal is to demonstrate that there wer no "intentional" violations of the program?

 

We all know that testing positive does mean 100%, without a doubt, that a person used PED's. With the information that we have though, it is very safe to say that Braun took a test and it turned up positive.

 

If you still don't believe his camp confirmed a positve test, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

So there is never any case where there can be a false positive. Again we do not know everything and likely never will.

 

[crewcrazy]

For those who haven't seen it yet, Will Carroll's piece on the testing system is a must-read:

 

Once at the lab, which is usually the WADA-certified lab in Montreal, the sample would be separated into "A" and B" samples. The "A" sample would undergo a full spectrum of tests, which would include one that looks at the ratio of two substances, testosterone and epitestosterone. The "T/E" ratio in most men is 1:1, but it has been shown that this ratio fluctuates wildly. Controlled studies have been shown that the ratio can go as high as 10:1 in men that have taken no exogenous (non-natural) testosterone. Any test above 4:1 triggers a second, more comprehensive test. At this stage, it is not considered a positive result. The ratio test is merely a trigger.

 

The "B" sample is then tested using one of several methods (MLB does not disclose which method is used, though carbon isotope ratios or chromatography are considered the state of the art.) This test is able to determine the presence and origin of exogenous testosterone. This presence, in any amount, is sufficient to find a player in violation of the drug policy. This testing can differentiate between endogenous (natural, produced by the body) testosterone and any exogenous variant. It can also determine the variant, of which there are several in use. Testosterone is present in all humans, male and female, though males have higher levels. Testosterone is also widely used for medical purposes. If you remember the "Is It Low T?" ads that ran incessantly during the MLB playoffs, you saw an advertisement for testosterone. Take it and you would test positive under MLB rules.

[Bench Coach]

some new info for Rosenthal on Twitter:

 

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Source: Braun tested positive for a prohibited substance, not a performance-enhancing drug. More coming on FOXSports.com. #Brewers #MLB

Again we don't know everything. Again why I am mad at the media. They report without knowing all the details and potentially harming a man's reputation for no reason.

 

[jeffy]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135405518.html

 

...not a performance-enhancing drug or steroid of any kind. And the source says there has "never" been a result like this in the history of the MLB testing program.

[valpocrewsader]

Wouldn't a "prohibited substance" that causes four times the natural level of testosterone be, by nature, a PED? Strange to have a distinction given the symptom (significantly increased testosterone).

[Crew2323]

some new info for Rosenthal on Twitter:

 

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Source: Braun tested positive for a prohibited substance, not a performance-enhancing drug. More coming on FOXSports.com. #Brewers #MLB

This is what has infuriated me about this whole discussion. All the facts aren't even close to being out yet, but everyone is stating as fact that Braun took steroids. Watching ESPN's coverage of this last night was even more infurating. One anchor was saying he tested positive for a PED while another kept saying he tested positive for steroids, and they were both on the set together. No one has this story straight. No one knows a damn thing about what Braun took.

 

What infuriates me most is that this story leaked before the appeals process has even been completed. I tweeted this to Buster Olney this morning: "Again, can you please explain to me how this gets leaked out before the appeal is heard and before all the facts are known?" He actually replied to my tweet with this: "I don't know who the sources are for Mark and T.J., whose past work on steroids has been impeccable." I responded by saying that someone's impeccable record is going to be tarnished at some point, and I hope it isn't Braun's. Again, no one can say with 100% certainty that Braun took steroids.

 

It's frustrating to read some of the comments on this forum that are speaking about this in the very same way. There are a lot of assumptions being made, and you know what they say about assuming.

[PilprinBuddha]

Would Viagra or Cialis jack your Testosterone?

[Bench Coach]

some new info for Rosenthal on Twitter:

 

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Source: Braun tested positive for a prohibited substance, not a performance-enhancing drug. More coming on FOXSports.com. #Brewers #MLB

This is what has infuriated me about this whole discussion. All the facts aren't even close to being out yet, but everyone is stating as fact that Braun took steroids. Watching ESPN's coverage of this last night was even more infurating. One anchor was saying he tested positive for a PED while another kept saying he tested positive for steroids, and they were both on the set together. No one has this story straight. No one knows a damn thing about what Braun took.

 

What infuriates me most is that this story leaked before the appeals process has even been completed. I tweeted this to Buster Olney this morning: "Again, can you please explain to me how this gets leaked out before the appeal is heard and before all the facts are known?" He actually replied to my tweet with this: "I don't know who the sources are for Mark and T.J., whose past work on steroids has been impeccable." I responded by saying that someone's impeccable record is going to be tarnished at some point, and I hope it isn't Braun's. Again, no one can say with 100% certainty that Braun took steroids.

 

It's frustrating to read some of the comments on this forum that are speaking about this in the very same way. There are a lot of assumptions being made, and you know what they say about assuming.

You are preaching to the choir. At least some of us are level headed and waiting to make final judgement until the appeal process is complete.

 

[burnzy24]

Wouldn't a "prohibited substance" that causes four times the natural level of testosterone be, by nature, a PED? Strange to have a distinction given the symptom (significantly increased testosterone).

Good question. I am guessing that MLB has specific distinctions between the two for a reason but someone with more knowledge on medications can answer that. Maybe there are supplements that are banned but not given the "PED" label?

[narwhalattack]

At least getting caught using a non-PED banned substance is better for his reputation than getting caught for using PED's.

[ninja33]

Would Viagra or Cialis jack your Testosterone?

nope. would be pretty funny though.

[xisxisxis]

A spokesman for Braun confirmed the positive test Saturday and issued a statement:

This is an interpretation of the statement by the author of the article, not Braun's representative. Their comment is in the little things called quotation marks (").

"There are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan's complete innocence and demonstrate there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program."

It's pretty clear his organization is NOT admitting guilt or a violation. They have made no comment on the test and it's findings other than to say he is not in violation of the testing program. That is clear. It's an assumption to say he has failed because of these comments and based on the rumor from ESPN. Once again I will reiterate that I wouldn't be surprised if he is found to be in violation of the PED testing, but there is nothing at this point to confirm that is the case.

[pebadger]

Would Viagra or Cialis jack your Testosterone?

Viagra shouldn't. I don't think Cialis should either, but I'm not as confident in saying that.

The kicker, generally, in all of these cases is that much of this testing is highly complex and rests upon assumptions. Very robust assumptions to be sure, but nothing in this world is infallible. When a finding is made that exogenous T is present in somebodies' system, that finding is almost never based on actually finding exogenous T in that person's system. It's based on finding OTHER substances which strongly imply that exogenous T is/was present. (Your body doesn't store most things it takes in. It metabolizes them and we end up with the products of that process, so that's the stuff we have to look for).

Note also that Braun's testosterone was not necessarily "jacked". His ratio of testosterone to epi (his T/E ratio) was above the tripwire standard of 4:1. The ration can be high because of either the T or the E portion of the ratio. Regardless, it's the "failure" of this T/E test which leads to the secondary CIR/GC testing which attempts to further identify if there is an substance foriegn to the athlete that is at play in creating that ratio. Suffice to say, it's a complex situation that is not just some sort of middle school chem lab project.

 

[fondybrewfan]

So how could something other than a PED increase the testosterone level? Am I missing something here or are we not even talking about testosterone levels anymore?

[pebadger]

So how could something other than a PED increase the testosterone level? Am I missing something here or are we not even talking about testosterone levels anymore?

His T level may not have been high. All we know (probably) is that his T/E *ratio* was "out of spec", which triggered another test. These tests are not 100% diagnostically conclusive as to exactly what a person may have ingested to caused a given result. They are highly suggestive of doping, but not conclusive. The burden of disproving that assumption is on the athlete. As most of them are not biochemists, and it's hard even for experts to say exactly what happened in any given situation, it's a tough row to hoe to prove yourself "innocent". If there is something highly amiss here from the "usual" doping case, that will help Braun, but it's not a slam dunk for him. The general presumption on the part of the testers is that he just found a new way to cheat, or messed something up in his doping that produced the weird result.

[BREWCREW5]

Moderators....

 

When Braun is cleared of any wrongdoing, and he will be, please delete this thread so that players, brewer employees and all of their families will not read this to see how the BREWER FAITHFUL will completely turn on their most loved player without facts or any inside knowledge.

 

Many of you should be ashamed.

[jeffy]

So how could something other than a PED increase the testosterone level? Am I missing something here or are we not even talking about testosterone levels anymore?

 

According to Hardicourt: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/brewers.html

if it's a stimulant it would be a 25 game suspension. Does MLB do random testing for stimulants?

 

It's not clear here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...cy#Prohibited_substances

that indicates random testing for steriods and testing upon suspicion for "drugs of abuse", but is silent about stimulant testing.

[jason21nl]

Moderators....

 

When Braun is cleared of any wrongdoing, and he will be, please delete this thread so that players, brewer employees and all of their families will not read this to see how the BREWER FAITHFUL will completely turn on their most loved player without facts or any inside knowledge.

 

Many of you should be ashamed.

Seriously?

 

Yes how dare people believe a report about a player taking a banned substance! How dare people not believe, "I didn't knowingly take a banned substance"

[BREWCREW5]

Seriously?

 

Yes how dare people believe a report about a player taking a banned substance! How dare people not believe, "I didn't knowingly take a banned substance"

Nothing has even come from MLB yet. You do realize that all of this is supposed to be confidential? How about a witch hunt Sen. McCarthy?

[Big Cat Dad]

You guys are like a pathetic guy in denial.........even though your girlfriend is boning everyone in town.

 

It's not the media, ESPN or the "person who leaked the story"'s fault for Braun taking steroids.

 

He's a juicer.....deal with it.

 

Pathetic how some of you are acting.

 

The fact is.....Braun will probably always claim he is innocent and some of you will probably always believe him. Everyone claims they are innocent at first and many hold on forever (Clemens, Lance Armstrong).

And you're 100% sure he's a juicer how? Just by believing what some reporters said without there being any arbitration process and without an official suspension given? I'll believe you if and once Braun starts serving his suspension.

You probably believed Palmero, Clemens and McGuire too.

[fondybrewfan]

Seriously?

 

Yes how dare people believe a report about a player taking a banned substance! How dare people not believe, "I didn't knowingly take a banned substance"

Nothing has even come from MLB yet. You do realize that all of this is supposed to be confidential? How about a witch hunt Sen. McCarthy?

This is borderline ridiculous. We are fans we can say whatever the heck we want to say. Just because it was a Brewer this time we are just supposed to believe him blindly? He may get vindicated in this but to ridicule fans for getting on his case seems pretty ill advised IMO.

 

[Mr QL]

I think when Braun is exonerated he should sue a few folks for defamation.