Per ESPN: Braun Tests Positive, May Face 50 Game Suspension (Part 1)

[crewcrazy]

Check out the splits from an admitted steroid user, Ken Caminiti, who says he started using steroids in the 2nd half of 1996 (the year he won the MVP)

 

1st Half: 12 HR, 49 RBI, .294 BA, .859 OPS

2nd Half: 28 HR, 81 RBI, .360 BA, 1.203 OPS

 

http://www.baseball-refer...=caminke01&year=1996&t=b

 

I've seen no such strange splits or bizarre stat trends in Braun's career. Unless one is going to claim that he's been juicing his whole career...

That is the worst case scenario, that Braun has been doing it for his whole career and will now stop to avoid a potential longer or lifetime suspension. The Brewers then end up paying him for much diminished performance over the next decade.

If Braun was doing something his entire career, he likely would have been popped before this. He's one of the guys who's been constantly tested every step of the way, from rookie ball to the big leagues.

 

Braun's in a tough spot now (whether or not he deserves to be is TBD) where any decreased production in 2012 and beyond will lead to "SEE! HE'S NO GOOD WITHOUT THEM!" talk. Even if he's "guilty," Braun and the player's union should be absolutely pissed that this was allowed to get out ahead of time. Stuff like this is why the league doesn't announce anything until the appeal is heard.

[narwhalattack]

You guys are like a pathetic guy in denial.........even though your girlfriend is boning everyone in town.

 

It's not the media, ESPN or the "person who leaked the story"'s fault for Braun taking steroids.

 

He's a juicer.....deal with it.

 

Pathetic how some of you are acting.

 

The fact is.....Braun will probably always claim he is innocent and some of you will probably always believe him. Everyone claims they are innocent at first and many hold on forever (Clemens, Lance Armstrong).

And you're 100% sure he's a juicer how? Just by believing what some reporters said without there being any arbitration process and without an official suspension given? I'll believe you if and once Braun starts serving his suspension.

[xisxisxis]

Where does this 'innocent until proven guilty' stuff keep coming up? This isn't a court of law. The comparisons to people getting arrested are off base.


Show me one comment or announcement BY MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL that he failed a drug test. If not, then it is just RUMOR. He hasn't failed anything, hence he is not guilty.

The really great thing about the internet is that lots of information is now at your fingertips. The bad thing is that everyone thinks they have a valid opinion about everything and can spout $%+# without any regard for their reputation. ESPN is reporting rumor about information that MLB has had for at least 6 weeks and have not acted upon. To me it's clear that they have not come to a determination of guilt yet (releasing the test results) for a good reason. It could turn out that Ryan ultimately will be in violation of MLB drug testing and face a 50 game suspension, but until that organization (MLB) makes the announcement it is just a rumor.

ru·mor? ?[roo-mer]

noun

1) a story or statement in general circulation withoutconfirmation or certainty as to facts: a rumor of war.

2) gossip; hearsay: Don't listen to rumor.

3) Archaic . a continuous, confused noise; clamor; din.

verb (used with object)

1) to circulate, report, or assert by a rumor: It is rumored thatthe king is dead.



vi·o·late? ?[vahy-uh-leyt]

verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.

1) to break, infringe, or transgress (a law, rule, agreement,promise, instructions, etc.).

2) to break in upon or disturb rudely; interfere thoughtlesslywith: to violate his privacy.

3) to break through or pass by force or without right: to violatea frontier.

4) to treat irreverently or disrespectfully; desecrate; profane:violate a human right.

5) to molest sexually, especially to rape.

[TooLiveBrew]

You guys are like a pathetic guy in denial.........even though your girlfriend is boning everyone in town.

This is exactly like that!

[ninja33]

You guys are like a pathetic guy in denial.........even though your girlfriend is boning everyone in town.

 

It's not the media, ESPN or the "person who leaked the story"'s fault for Braun taking steroids.

 

He's a juicer.....deal with it.

 

Pathetic how some of you are acting.

 

The fact is.....Braun will probably always claim he is innocent and some of you will probably always believe him. Everyone claims they are innocent at first and many hold on forever (Clemens, Lance Armstrong).

agree with you that some of the denial is a little bit extreme, especially placing blame on anyone but Braun (just like people saying "we can't blame braun until all the facts come out", we can't blame ESPN or whoever until all the facts come out). But I have no problem with the "Until he's suspended by MLB, nothing is really proven" camp. Yea, he failed the test but there's still the (very small) chance that something weird happened. He failed the test, but it doesn't officially mean/prove anything until the appeals process is over and he is suspended. Will Carroll is a pretty reliable expert when it comes to things like this, and he has a pretty informative story about the testing process in the link below. His last line sums up what the optimist view should be, "The original report from ESPN's Outside the Lines is certainly troubling, but it is hardly definitive"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/will_carroll/12/10/braun-positive-test/index.html

[Bench Coach]

Wow - I am still very upset by this. In all my time as a Brewer fan there have only been two other Brewers I liked as much as Braun - Molitor and Yount. Since I found out last night I have probably been acting like my best friend died.

 

Here is the problem as I see it. He did test postive for syntetic testosterone - so something illegal was in his system. Whether he intentionally meant to do it or not it is going to be a lmost impossible to prove. As much as I hate to say it, I don't see how the suspension si overturned. I hate it and it is killing me, but for the first 50 games of next season we will not only be missing Prince from our lineup, but also Braun. We have to hope to tread water during that time and come on strong at the end otherwise it will be a big waste of what could be Grienke and Marcum's last year with us.

 

As for what really happened, what he took, the intent....we will never know the truth. All of that is supposed to be confidential and honestly I have not believed the league and most of it's players stories about this in the past. What I do believe is that others have probably successfully defended this in the past, but it stayed wuiet and confidentiIal like it was supposed to. This being leaked and becoming public, does as many others have said, make it extremely more difficult and unlikely that the suspension is over turned. As such we as Brewer fans have to decide on our own how we feel about Braun going forward.

 

I for myself am not sure. Last night when I found out I half jokingly said to my wife that this might be what I felt like if I ever found out she cheated on me. To some extent it might be accurate. I am mad right now, and probably even more so for the first 50 games. Again, we will never know the truth. Did he let us as fans down either way, likely yes. But was he willfully cheating or was it an accident or oversite. Again we will likely never know, so we will have to make our own judgements going forward. Going back to my , do I want him gone or do I want him to stay to have the opportunity to make good. Again at this point I am not sure.

 

Hopefully this is cleared up soon. I want to believe Braun and part of me does. But part of me knows how cocky he is and remembers that he is an athlete in a business where most are willing to do what it takes to be the best. For know I just have to hope!

[RockCoCougars]

Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Maybe I'm being creepy here, but I was just looking at a picture of Braun last week and noticed that he had little if any arm hair. I thought that was a little odd at the time, then all this comes out a few days later. Is that a side effect of steroids/hormones? Do these guys really take estrogen to beat the testing? I thought that I read that some where.

[Schlitz001]

If you are going to use the "It wasn't supposed to be in the supplement" argument, there is a lot to prove

The excuse Palmeiro used when he was caught was that he never intentionally took any product that he knew was a banned substance. The MLB along with NSF has an ever growing list of supplements that the players need to stay away from because of the risk of a false positive. NSF also certifies and sells products to teams which they have approved as not triggering a false positive. If a player finds a supplement that is not approved by NSF and is not on the list of banned supplements, it is up to the player to get approval through NSF before taking the supplement.

In other words, there is almost no wiggle room for the "I unknowingly ingested a product that contained an exogenous testosterone" excuse. If Braun did take an NSF approved supplement with synthetic testosterone, he would need to have that supplement LOT number tested and come back positive in order to be exonerated. This would have surely already been done if that was the suspicion.

There are too many conflicting reports to figure out what is really going on with Braun's samples at this point. Was it Braun's "B" sample that came back negative, or was it a completely different sample that came back negative. And if it was a new sample, what are the reasons for needing that second sample? Why has it taken so long to complete this process?

When McGwire said he wasn't prepared to talk about the past, I laughed. When Sammy Sosa forgot english, I laughed. When Manny Ramirez took his vacation to Spain after the second failed test, I laughed. Now that Braun is put in a similar awkward position I can only hope that he is proven not guilty, but it certainly doesn't look good.

[jeffy]

He hasn't failed anything, hence he is not guilty.

 

He failed the test. Braun has confirmed that. There is not going to be a trial, he is not going to be found "guilty", he's going to serve a 50 game suspension for failing the test (or if he wins the appeal he won't serve the suspension).

 

Except for the appeal process, this is like Joe Schmoe applying for a job at Acme Widgets who has a drug testing policy. If he fails the test he's not hired.

[Beast Light]

And you're 100% sure he's a juicer how? Just by believing what some reporters said without there being any arbitration process and without an official suspension given? I'll believe you if and once Braun starts serving his suspension.

What did a reporter say that is either in doubt or being disputed? What did a reporter say that should not be believed? He failed the PED test, his camp even confirmed it.

 

I really cannot believe the denial that I am reading in this thread. If this was Albert Pujols, everyone would be casting stones left and right ....probably claiming that without the cheating, the Brewers would have been in the World Series.

 

 

[xisxisxis]

Would we be saying the same things here if say...Votto, Bruce, Holliday, etc was the person involved and not Braun?

I guess I don't really belong on this planet anymore because I actually look at the source before I jump to a conclusion. There really are no "journalism" standards anymore so any media outlet can be driven by various reasons to reveal a story that isn't fact. At this point in time, MLB has this information for > 6 weeks and is still collecting information.

For those that keep saying that no one has ever successfully appealed - look back at MLB comments on this topic - THERE ARE NONE BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T RELEASED ANY INFORMATION OR FINDINGS YET. No ONE has ever successfully appealed because those who successfully appealed were never announced to be in violation of MLB PED testing. QED

[Bench Coach]

Braun's in a tough spot now (whether or not he deserves to be is TBD) where any decreased production in 2012 and beyond will lead to "SEE! HE'S NO GOOD WITHOUT THEM!" talk. Even if he's "guilty," Braun and the player's union should be absolutely pissed that this was allowed to get out ahead of time. Stuff like this is why the league doesn't announce anything until the appeal is heard.

This is actually the one thing I am not so worried about. From everything I have heard he is a hard worker and wants to be the best. If anything I think this will drive him more. Especially if he truly feels he was unjustly suspended. I think he will have a chip on his shoulder and want to prove to everyone that he can, and has done it on his own.

 

 

[afeter]

whats next, Rodger's snaps Bethany Hamilton's arm in a rage after hearing shes pregnant with his son.

[Beast Light]

I guess I don't really belong on this planet anymore because I actually look at the source before I jump to a conclusion. There really are no "journalism" standards anymore so any media outlet can be driven by various reasons to reveal a story that isn't fact. At this point in time, MLB has this information for > 6 weeks and is still collecting information.

Braun tested positive for a PED. We have two sources:

 

1. ESPN

2. Braun's own camp

[Bench Coach]

Would we be saying the same things here if say...Votto, Bruce, Holliday, etc was the person involved and not Braun?

I guess I don't really belong on this planet anymore because I actually look at the source before I jump to a conclusion. There really are no "journalism" standards anymore so any media outlet can be driven by various reasons to reveal a story that isn't fact. At this point in time, MLB has this information for > 6 weeks and is still collecting information.

For those that keep saying that no one has ever successfully appealed - look back at MLB comments on this topic - THERE ARE NONE BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T RELEASED ANY INFORMATION OR FINDINGS YET. No ONE has ever successfully appealed because those who successfully appealed were never announced to be in violation of MLB PED testing. QED

Looks like after a year or so of no posting I am really going at it today....

 

Two important things here it has been six weeks. To me that seems like a lot of time. If it was as clear cut as some of the "Braun is a juicer" people are stating then wouldn't the appeal process likely be completed already and MLB would have made announcement. I know I don't know much about the timing on these things, but seems there may be at least a little substance to his arguement. That brings up the next poitn, none of us know what the timeline should actually look like. This was supposed to be confidential. Others may have gone through this before and won their appeal and as such we have never heard about it. That is why I am mad at the media and whoever the source is. Let the process run its course, then if suspended trach him all you want. Now if that 1% chance that he is telling the truth is accurate he will forever be questioned.

[xisxisxis]

He failed the test. Braun has confirmed that. [/b]

The drug test is carried out by MLB. They have not released any violation of the PED policy based on a failed drug test. They are the only ones who can rule on this issue. Doesn't matter what ESPN says.

I believe the only way Ryan can prove his "innocence" is through a technical finding that he didn't fail the test. I am pretty sure that if MLB finds he failed the test there is no way to appeal that process and we will hear an official announcement from MLB. There is a way to have measurements that are outside the acceptable and to not "fail" the test, but they are hard to prove.

As I stated earlier, I will not be surprised if ultimately Ryan is in violation of the PED policy, but right now there is no credible information that leads me to be convinced of that, only rumor from a sports station that doesn't have a single journalist working for them.

[burnzy24]

Braun tested positive for a PED. We have two sources:

 

1. ESPN

2. Braun's own camp

Yes because drug tests are 100% infallible. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif If that was the case, then MLB wouldn't need an appeals process. Once MLB issues their findings and the arbitration is complete, judge away. Otherwise it is nothing but bits and pieces of unconfirmed information.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

Here's a possible scenario for Braun to clear himself: He took a supplement that was on MLB's latest approved list (I am assuming of course that such a list exists). However, it's later shown that this product indeed is capable of producing a high enough spike in testosterone levels in certain people to produce a positive test, and therefore the product should not have been on the list, then it's MLB's screwup. Because these test results are supposed to be confidential, it would seem to me well within Braun's rights to seek damages caused by the leak of preliminary information that damages his career earning power. If the party leaking this information had some type of ax to grind with either Braun and/or the Brewer organization and ESPN knew this and ran with the story any way, I would think a case could be made against them as well.

I want to state first and foremost, I am far past the days of hero worship and thinking my favorite athletes are infallible. Nothing regarding PEDs or drugs and sports would shock me these days. Nothing. Maybe Tebow running a meth lab...

 

That being said, I think the above description is plausible and it is also the only likely scenario where this doesn't turn into a 50 game suspension.

 

I imagine that nothing at this point will prevent the whispers and and the perception that he's a juicer. If he did it, it's his own fault, if the above scenario plays out, then whomever leaked this to ESPN should be ashamed of themselves, and yeah, ESPN should as well. How they pick and choose which stories to run and which need more confirmation is baffling. Bernie Fine sits under the rug for 8 years. Roethlisberger is ignored. Favre and Sterger ignored. Others run immediately.

 

What a kick to the teeth hearing this last night. I'm sick.

[Bench Coach]

I guess I don't really belong on this planet anymore because I actually look at the source before I jump to a conclusion. There really are no "journalism" standards anymore so any media outlet can be driven by various reasons to reveal a story that isn't fact. At this point in time, MLB has this information for > 6 weeks and is still collecting information.

Braun tested positive for a PED. We have two sources:

 

1. ESPN

2. Braun's own camp

But again do we know that others have not tested positive, but were successfully able to have it overturned? Do you know that for fact? Do we know if there have ever been a false positive? Have you or anyone else you know gone through this before? Do you yourself perform these tests or work for MLB? Likely the answer to all of these questions is NO.

 

Not trying to be harsh or overagressive here, but my point is we don't know adn really at this point we should't know. Do I think the suspension will be upheld. Yes - but for a number of reasons that could be the outcome. We will never know the full story. And to me intent does mean at least something.

 

 

[Beast Light]

He failed the test. Braun has confirmed that. [/b]

The drug test is carried out by MLB. They have not released any violation of the PED policy based on a failed drug test. They are the only ones who can rule on this issue. Doesn't matter what ESPN says.

So now you are hoping Braun's camp confirmed testing positive and claimed they would prove his innocence even though MLB didn't find that he tested positive?

 

OK, there is some serious denial taking place. Don't know what else to say about this...

[whizkid]

If you are going to use the "It wasn't supposed to be in the supplement" argument, there is a lot to prove

The excuse Palmeiro used when he was caught was that he never intentionally took any product that he knew was a banned substance. The MLB along with NSF has an ever growing list of supplements that the players need to stay away from because of the risk of a false positive. NSF also certifies and sells products to teams which they have approved as not triggering a false positive. If a player finds a supplement that is not approved by NSF and is not on the list of banned supplements, it is up to the player to get approval through NSF before taking the supplement.

In other words, there is almost no wiggle room for the "I unknowingly ingested a product that contained an exogenous testosterone" excuse. If Braun did take an NSF approved supplement with synthetic testosterone, he would need to have that supplement LOT number tested and come back positive in order to be exonerated. This would have surely already been done if that was the suspicion.

There are too many conflicting reports to figure out what is really going on with Braun's samples at this point. Was it Braun's "B" sample that came back negative, or was it a completely different sample that came back negative. And if it was a new sample, what are the reasons for needing that second sample? Why has it taken so long to complete this process?

When McGwire said he wasn't prepared to talk about the past, I laughed. When Sammy Sosa forgot english, I laughed. When Manny Ramirez took his vacation to Spain after the second failed test, I laughed. Now that Braun is put in a similar awkward position I can only hope that he is proven not guilty, but it certainly doesn't look good.

 

This is a great post, but I disagree with the bolded sentence because this was leaked before the process is complete.

[xisxisxis]

So now you are hoping Braun's camp confirmed testing positive and claimed they would prove his innocence even though MLB didn't find that he tested positive?

 

 

I've added it to my signature in case you missed it, but his camp has not confirmed he tested positive.

[ninja33]

He failed the test. Braun has confirmed that. [/b]

The drug test is carried out by MLB. They have not released any violation of the PED policy based on a failed drug test. They are the only ones who can rule on this issue. Doesn't matter what ESPN says.

So now you are hoping Braun's camp confirmed testing positive and claimed they would prove his innocence even though MLB didn't find that he tested positive?

 

OK, there is some serious denial taking place. Don't know what else to say about this...

they confirmed he tested positive for elevated testosterone. Neither braun's camp nor MLB has confirmed what the cause of it was, or when the followup negative test occurred (and what that means relative to the first test). Is it probably going to come back that Braun was doing/taking something he shouldn't have? Very very probable. But until the appeals process is through and a suspension is (or isn't) handed down, we don't have the whole story.

Some may call that denial, some may call that (false) hope. it is what it is

[samwise]

While I am upset the guy is going to miss 50 games next year, I am not totally shocked by this. PED's, human growth hormone, etc., are a far more prevalent part of professional athletics than we as fans like to think. While it is a little out of the ordinary that such a prominent player got caught, this is never going away. This time it just happened to fall on our guy. It hurts but I am not shocked.

 

When I was younger I believed that athletics were a pure proving ground. Yeah I was naive, but I thought that no matter where you came from, how much money you had, or the color of your skin, it all went out the window when you walked in between the lines. Commitment, courage, and desire paved the path to winning. Games were played, and won, by the pure of heart and the pure of spirit. But the fact of the matter is baseball, football, basketball, and any other sport, can no longer be considered games. They are Professional Athletics, the game is not won by the hardest worker, or even the most talented, it is won by the best manipulator. The man who works the game outside of the game. Money, power, and drugs run the show. I guess I always knew this, but I stashed it away as I watched my heroes chase destiny and glory. It would never be my golden idols that would fall. But, I have seen my idols (Braun, Favre) prove to be false.

 

Was it their fault, or really, was it mine? My fault for becoming invested in them? My fault for believing that something greater than an athletic competition was taking place?

 

It is not their fault, it's mine. I feel like a chump, a stooge, a sucker, for buying what Professional Athletics are selling. They are selling garbage ladies and gentlemen, and I don't want any more of it.

 

End Lament.

[Beast Light]

So now you are hoping Braun's camp confirmed testing positive and claimed they would prove his innocence even though MLB didn't find that he tested positive?

I've added it to my signature in case you missed it, but his camp has not confirmed he tested positive.

A spokesman for Braun confirmed the positive test Saturday and issued a statement: "There are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan's complete innocence and demonstrate there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program. While Ryan has impeccable character and no previous history, unfortunately, because of the process we have to maintain confidentiality and are not able to discuss it any further, but we are confident he will ultimately be exonerated."

 

What is the "case" that they are referring to? The case is testing positive for PED's. Also, notice state the goal is to demonstrate that there wer no "intentional" violations of the program?

 

We all know that testing positive does mean 100%, without a doubt, that a person used PED's. With the information that we have though, it is very safe to say that Braun took a test and it turned up positive.

 

If you still don't believe his camp confirmed a positve test, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.