What's your preferred 2012 lineup? (of players who will actually be on our team)

[Bernman23]

Many of you seem to think that will happen. There is no way he is in any OF spot. It is 1B or nothing. He can't play the OF. The team will not take that defensive chance.

Many posters here acted like it was crazy when some suggested Taylor Green play some 2nd base with Weeks out. Then he got into a number of games and performed more than adequately at the position.

 

Mat Gamel has played a few games at left in the majors, and did play it here and there in ST and the minors. But since some didn't recall that or haven't seen it, he should automatically be excluded from the conversation I guess. Roenicke justified playing Mark freaking Kotsay for 30 games at corner outfield and he was butterfingered sloth and didn't hit all that well (.702 OPS). Certainly Mat Gamel is a more viable option in corner outfield than he was.

[TooLiveBrew]

But since some didn't recall that or haven't seen it, he should automatically be excluded from the conversation I guess.

 

Or maybe people think he wouldn't be a good option to put out there when you can just play Morgan or Schafer there, with Gamel still at 1B.

[Bernman23]

But since some didn't recall that or haven't seen it, he should automatically be excluded from the conversation I guess.

 

Or maybe people think he wouldn't be a good option to put out there when you can just play Morgan or Schafer there, with Gamel still at 1B.

Based on what are they arguing he isn't a good enough option then? Like I said he's played there before some and his issues for the infield were in the throwing accuracy dept (which obviously wouldn't hurt him as much in the outfield), not athleticism or hand-eye coordination.

 

And you'll lose a lot of offense playing Gomez everyday against righties. It's bad enough Braun is going to be removed from the lineup for 50 games, now you want to replace him w/ a guy who has hit .636 against righties the last 3 years?

[TooLiveBrew]

And you'll lose a lot of offense playing Gomez everyday against righties.

 

What is your alternative plan? Green at 1B & Gamel in LF? I wouldn't mind that.

 

For what it's worth I don't think many had a big problem with Green at 2B since he played quite a bit of it in the minors. So for example, I'm not convinced Gamel necessarily could play a much better LF than Kotsay, since he's played there a very small handful of times in his career, compared to hundreds or thousands of reps for guys like Kotsay/Gomez/etc. And I love Gamel, I really do. But it's not just having the physical ability to play the OF, it's the technical skills too.

 

I think the defensive difference between Gamel and any of Gomez/Plush/Schafer is greater than the offensive difference when you compare the trio I mentioned to Taylor Green. Green's a better hitter than Gomez & Schafer... probably Morgan, too, but not by much just yet. But I also know for sure that any of those OFs (not Kotsay) are way, way better in the outfield than Gamel would be, & I think that run prevention is the single most important factor in winning. So unless the offensive advantage in going with Green is huge, I'd rather go with defense.

[DHonks]

TooLiveBrew, I think it was on the jsonline blog or on Haudricourt's twitter account. But he was quoted as telling Green to get a 1b mitt.

 

I consistently for years have considered the three G's to be a huge part of our future (Green, Gindl, Gamel). I think all project somewhere in the .280-.300 range with 15-25 HR and .350+ OBPs. Best thing is all are lefthanded bats. I prefer letting Green continue to build on success in AAA for the time being, knowing that he's a flight away from the majors. I'd rather have the backup 3b/1b be a guy that's never really meant to start, just pinch hit. If one gets hurt, Green gets called up to start, not the backup. With Gindl, I prefer what he brings to the table for the team over Shafer or Gomez each day in LF. Gomez is valuable on defense, but I'd like to use the chance to stick Gindl in LF to see how he looks, balance the lineup, and provide some possible doubles and homers that Shafer wouldn't likely provide.

 

I foresee Farris getting a legitimate shot to be a utility guy, perhaps competing with Wheeler (we never learned why he stopped playing SS last year, or why he was sent to AA, though)

[logan82]

You asked for "preferred lineup".

 

2B - Weeks R

CF - Morgan/Gomez L/R

LF - Braun R

1B - Fielder L

RF - Hart R

3B - Green L

C - Lucroy R

SS - Gonzalez R

If you are going to go that way I think you chose pretty poorly for SS and several other positions.

[Warning Track Power]

With Braun out of the lineup, I think it really comes down to who you want in the #3 hole before you can make the rest of the lineup. I only see three candidates, Weeks, Hart and A-Ram. As I believe that Roenicke will want some semblance of familiarity in the lineup based on his decisions of last season, I think he will stick someone in the #3 hole that will be ok to move in the lineup once Braun returns. As A-Ram is the cleanup hitter (I believe) and Hart is kind of whiny about hitting anywhere other than #1 or #2, I think you have to go with Weeks at #3.

 

I also don't believe the Brewers LF is on the roster or in the minors right now if Braun is suspended. However, since we only can work with what is on the roster now, my preferred lineup is:

 

1. Morgan LF

2. Hart RF

3. Weeks 2B

4. A-Ram 3B

5. Gamel 1B

6. Gonzalez SS

7. Lucroy C

8. Gomez CF

 

I don't understand why Morgan wasn't leading off last year and I really don't believe he will lead off this year, but that is what I prefer. I like the idea of putting Gamel higher in the lineup and am not opposed to him batting 2nd without Braun but I fear Hart will not hit if he isn't #1 or #2 and I don't like that our only two lefties would hit back to back. Once Braun returns, Gamel should see a lot of hittable pitches batting in front of Braun. Liken it to the Cardinals always seeming to put the Jays of the world in the #2 spot when Pujols was there (love saying that in the past tense). When Braun returns, my ideal goes:

 

1. Morgan CF

2. Gamel 1B

3. Braun LF

4. A-Ram 3B

5. Weeks 2B

6. Hart RF

7. Gonzalez SS

8. Lucroy C

[umphrey]

Gomez has really weird splits vs RHP or LHP if you go look at the numbers for 2011, 2010, and career, I don't know what to make of it. I don't think you have to bench him against RHP, but I think you have to bench Morgan against LHP.

[jhart05]

You asked for "preferred lineup".

 

2B - Weeks R

CF - Morgan/Gomez L/R

LF - Braun R

1B - Fielder L

RF - Hart R

3B - Green L

C - Lucroy R

SS - Gonzalez R

If you are going to go that way I think you chose pretty poorly for SS and several other positions.

 

I was still trying to keep it to guys the Brewers have or still have a .1% chance of keeping.

 

[Baldkin]

I really think that Gamel/Green/Ramirez will be filling 1B/3B/LF (if/while) Braun is out. The Brewers just don't have the 3-5 mil to spend on someone to back up 1B/LF/RF worth starting over any of those 3.

I'd love to see Ramirez at 1B to both see how he performs there, and to (hopefully) help keep his bad shoulder healthy.

[Polish Falcons]

Since several are assuming Gamel can't play Left Field, is it out of the question then for Taylor Green to play Left Field vs RHP during the first 50 games??? That would be ideal. Seems to me that less athletic players (Carlos Lee, Lance Berkman, Logan Morrison) make this shift every year, so I'm hoping either Green or Gamel could handle it for a while.

 

First 50 games vs RHP IF Braun is suspended:

1.Morgan, CF

2.Green, LF

3.Weeks, 2B

4.Ramirez, 3B

5.Hart, RF

6.Gamel, 1B

7.Lucroy, C

8.Gonzalez,SS

 

VS LHP Gomez starts in CF and I guess Morgan in Left.

[Mr Southpaw]

How about signing Angel Salome and give him a shot at lf while Braun is out? 5th Outfielder, 3rd catcher always had power and hit for average. Is it worth a flier?

[PrinceEatMeat]

How about signing Angel Salome and give him a shot at lf while Braun is out? 5th Outfielder, 3rd catcher always had power and hit for average. Is it worth a flier?

Lol, no. He split last year between Rookie and High A with Seattle. Guy's going nowhere.

[joepepsi]

Since several are assuming Gamel can't play Left Field, is it out of the question then for Taylor Green to play Left Field vs RHP during the first 50 games??? That would be ideal. Seems to me that less athletic players (Carlos Lee, Lance Berkman, Logan Morrison) make this shift every year, so I'm hoping either Green or Gamel could handle it for a while.

 

First 50 games vs RHP IF Braun is suspended:

1.Morgan, CF

2.Green, LF

3.Weeks, 2B

4.Ramirez, 3B

5.Hart, RF

6.Gamel, 1B

7.Lucroy, C

8.Gonzalez,SS

 

VS LHP Gomez starts in CF and I guess Morgan in Left.

This works for me. If Green has the arm for 3B, then he should be able to handle LF for some of those 50 games. You can always put gomez in CF late in games when they are ahead and shift Morgan to left.

[chickinbrickin]

vs. RHP

1. Weeks

2. Hart

3. Braun

4. Ramirez

5. Gamel

6. Lucroy

7. Gonzalez

8. Gomez

 

vs. LHP

1. Weeks

2. Hart

3. Braun

4. Ramirez

5. Lucroy

6. Gonzalez

7. Gamel

8. Gomez

 

I will worry about Braun being out when it is officially announced. I want Gomez to be the Brewers starting CF in 2012 sharing about half the starts with Morgan against RHP. His defense is just too good. I think all the Gomez hate of 2011, mine included, was due to the fact RRR continually ran him out in the 2 hole the first two months of the year. Gomez in the 8th spot everyday I like.

[logan82]

chickinbrickin wrote:

I will worry about Braun being out when it is officially announced.

Agree with that. I have stayed out of the thread since the first few pages. So much conflicting information.

I want Gomez to be the Brewers starting CF in 2012 sharing about half

the starts with Morgan against RHP. His defense is just too good.

No way. Morgan is a plus defender. He isn't as good as Gomez but his offense is actually pretty good against RHP. Gomez just can't hit. If Morgan could hit LHP at all I would trade Gomez.

I

think all the Gomez hate of 2011, mine included, was due to the fact RRR

continually ran him out in the 2 hole the first two months of the year.

Gomez in the 8th spot everyday I like.

I guess I missed the hate for Gomez. I thought it was prety much restricted to DPR and his bad decisions.

[rousieboy]

Out for 50 options...

 

Aoki-lf

Morgan/CGomez-cf

Weeks

ARam

Hart

Gamel

Lucroy

AGonz

 

after the 50.

Weeks

Aoki-cf

Braun

ARam

Hart

Gamel

Lucroy

AGonz

[sheetskout]

I have seen Weeks all over the place in these hypothetical lineups but my gut tells me that he hits fifth this season if Braun is cleared. Although I may or may not agree with putting Weeks behind your cleanup hitter, there seemed to be a lot of approval over this move in 2011. I really hope Aoki pans out and has the skills to hit leadoff.

[brewmann04]

I really like Gomez and he is a super plus defender.

[chickinbrickin]

chickinbrickin wrote:

I will worry about Braun being out when it is officially announced.

Agree with that. I have stayed out of the thread since the first few pages. So much conflicting information.

I want Gomez to be the Brewers starting CF in 2012 sharing about half

the starts with Morgan against RHP. His defense is just too good.

No way. Morgan is a plus defender. He isn't as good as Gomez but his offense is actually pretty good against RHP. Gomez just can't hit. If Morgan could hit LHP at all I would trade Gomez.

I

think all the Gomez hate of 2011, mine included, was due to the fact RRR

continually ran him out in the 2 hole the first two months of the year.

Gomez in the 8th spot everyday I like.

I guess I missed the hate for Gomez. I thought it was prety much restricted to DPR and his bad decisions.

I disagree, Morgan is fast, but Morgan is not a good defender. He is an average CF that is very bad at going back on balls, and he has zero arm. Gomez defense > Morgans bat. I would trade Morgan over Gomez every day of the week.

[PrinceEatMeat]

chickinbrickin wrote:

I will worry about Braun being out when it is officially announced.

Agree with that. I have stayed out of the thread since the first few pages. So much conflicting information.

I want Gomez to be the Brewers starting CF in 2012 sharing about half

the starts with Morgan against RHP. His defense is just too good.

No way. Morgan is a plus defender. He isn't as good as Gomez but his offense is actually pretty good against RHP. Gomez just can't hit. If Morgan could hit LHP at all I would trade Gomez.

I

think all the Gomez hate of 2011, mine included, was due to the fact RRR

continually ran him out in the 2 hole the first two months of the year.

Gomez in the 8th spot everyday I like.

I guess I missed the hate for Gomez. I thought it was prety much restricted to DPR and his bad decisions.

I disagree, Morgan is fast, but Morgan is not a good defender. He is an average CF that is very bad at going back on balls, and he has zero arm. Gomez defense > Morgans bat. I would trade Morgan over Gomez every day of the week.

Agree completely. Morgan is very overrated defensively. Gomez is the far superior defender to Morgan. I'd take the defense in CF as well. Morgan just simply isn't going to hit like he did last year either. No way he repeats that on a year-to-year basis. We caught lightning in a bottle last year, and we could trade him while his value is still high.

[Baldkin]

Agree completely. Morgan is very overrated defensively. Gomez is the far superior defender to Morgan. I'd take the defense in CF as well. Morgan just simply isn't going to hit like he did last year either. No way he repeats that on a year-to-year basis. We caught lightning in a bottle last year, and we could trade him while his value is still high.

Morgan had almost the exact same year he had from 2007-2009 (.303/.362/.391 vs .304/.357/.421 in 2011) . I have no doubt he can reproduce what he did in 2011 if he's platooned vs LHP again.

[JohnBriggs12]

Assuming a. Braun is exonerated and b. Hart is traded:

 

Aoki CF

Morgan RF

Braun LF

Ramirez 3B

Gamel 1B

Weeks 2B

Gonzalez SS

Lucroy C

 

Assuming Braun is suspended and Hart is not traded:

 

Aoki LF

Morgan CF

Hart RF

Ramirez 3B

Gamel 1B

Weeks 2B

Gonzalez SS

Lucroy C

[chickinbrickin]

Agree completely. Morgan is very overrated defensively. Gomez is the far superior defender to Morgan. I'd take the defense in CF as well. Morgan just simply isn't going to hit like he did last year either. No way he repeats that on a year-to-year basis. We caught lightning in a bottle last year, and we could trade him while his value is still high.

Morgan had almost the exact same year he had from 2007-2009 (.303/.362/.391 vs .304/.357/.421 in 2011) . I have no doubt he can reproduce what he did in 2011 if he's platooned vs LHP again.

 

I agree with Prince that Morgan will never repeat the year he had last year and this is why. Yes, his overall stats look very similar, but you have to look at ABs. Last year Morgan had 378 ABs and posted .304/.357/.421. The only other times in his career he has gotten around or above those levels is when he has had less than 200 ABs. I think the fact that Morgan was able to sustain those numbers "long-term" last year was a fluke.

 

Outside of last year the two other season he had over 200 ABs his line looks more like .265/.335/.335. Morgans only value is in a very limited role against RHP. This is why I do not want to see Morgan starting in CF. Gomez defense and speed > Morgans .300 average for 150 ABs.

[Baldkin]

I agree with Prince that Morgan will never repeat the year he had last year and this is why. Yes, his overall stats look very similar, but you have to look at ABs. Last year Morgan had 378 ABs and posted .304/.357/.421. The only other times in his career he has gotten around or above those levels is when he has had less than 200 ABs. I think the fact that Morgan was able to sustain those numbers "long-term" last year was a fluke.

 

Outside of last year the two other season he had over 200 ABs his line looks more like .265/.335/.335. Morgans only value is in a very limited role against RHP. This is why I do not want to see Morgan starting in CF. Gomez defense and speed > Morgans .300 average for 150 ABs.

Morgan Career vs RHP: .310/.363/.401/.764 That's 1400 PAs, compare that to Gomez: .244/.293/.339/.632. He hits RHP. He can't hit LHP. As long as our manager realizes this, Morgan is by far the better choice in CF vs RHP. 80 points of OBP and 80 points of SLG is worth far more than whatever Gomez adds defensively and with his speed.