Ron Santo elected to Hall of Fame

[Invader3K]

Figured this was noteworthy enough for its own thread. From Tim Dierkes via MLB Trade Rumors:

[/i]

Longtime Cubs third baseman Ron Santo was elected to the Hall of Fame today, announced the Baseball Writers Association of America. Santo was elected by the Golden Era Committee, a newly-formed part of the Veterans Committee, which exists for players not elected during their initial 15 years of eligibility. Unfortunately Santo was not around to witness his election, having passed away a year ago due to complications from diabetes. His induction will take place July 22nd in Cooperstown.[/i]

Santo hit .277/.362/.464 with 342 home runs in his 15-year career, mostly for the Cubs. He was known as as a strong defender. In a sabermetric sense, Santo tallied 79.3 wins above replacement according to FanGraphs. Santo later served as the Cubs' radio color commentator.

[1992casey]

I think this is well deserved and something that should have happened long ago. It's too bad that it had to happen after his death.

 

If I remember correctly, Ron's the first player that this newly created committee has chosen. (see reply #6)

[jerichoholicninja]

So there are now three committees to elect players into the Hall? If a guy can't make it past one why should he get two more shots?

[1992casey]

Yeah, it appears that this is a new committee. This would be the new Golden Era Committee. This would be separate from the Veterans Committee, which, if I recall correctly, hasn't elected anyone at all.

 

There's also a special committee for Pre-World War II players. And I think the Negro League committee is still around.

 

I don't have an issue with having several ways to elect a player. You'd hate to see someone omitted that deserves induction.

[JimH5]

While the HOF is interested in celebrating the game's greats, it is also an institution that needs visitors to sustain its operation.

 

By far, the busiest time of the year for the Hall and the village is induction weekend. Without it (and without the subsequent weeks that draw related visitors), the Hall would really suffer.

 

So they really do need to induct someone every year.

 

Like many things, they are serving two masters--one, to only allow people in who are deserving, and two, to keep the turnstiles turning.

 

So I think we'll always see different versions of these "2nd chance" committees--just to make sure they're not at the mercy of the BBWAA vote every year.

[TooLiveBrew]

I thought the Veterans Committee elected many players, but not really in recent times.

[1992casey]

You can't rely mainly on the writers. While many take the vote seriously, others fail to make the effort to do their homework, and some simply draw the wrong conclusions.

 

The current Veterans Committee (all living members of the Hall of Fame, Ford C. Frick Award winners, and J. G. Taylor Spink Award winners) seemed to be a good idea. But it hasn't elected anyone, and Ron Santo seemed to be the poster child omission. There's probably no harm in letting it continue to operate, though. Disbanding it would be pretty awkward.

 

The Golden Era committee involves a Historical Overview committee. The use of historians appears to be a necessary component to help with the homework. We saw an example of that with the special Negro League election a couple of years ago; it was apparent that worthy candidates were being overlooked simply because the voters didn't know enough about them.

[RockCoCougars]

From what I remember, the Veteran's Committee has made a lot of selections in the past. I remember guys like Ernie Lombardi getting in during the 80's/90's. I know that there are a lot of sketchy old time players in the HOF due to the fact that they were cronies of Frankie Frisch who headed this thing 50 or 60 years ago, at least this is what I read somewhere.

[1992casey]

I thought the Veterans Committee elected many players, but not really in recent times.

 

The old Veterans Committee was kind of a super-secret group that some thought was overly generous. It was replaced by the Veterans Committee described in reply #6 in 2001.

[brettac1]

Finally. Too bad it's too late for him to be able to enjoy it.

[JohnBriggs12]

I personally don't think he belongs (I'd take Ken Boyer over Santo myself), but if it was going to happen it should have happened when he was alive.

 

Boyer was the better player. Their numbers are close, but Boyer was an MVP (1964) and spent half of his career in the pre expansion era when pitching wasn't as watered down.

[cubfan1126]

Yes the original Veterans committee was a semi super secret organization whose members always had their own agenda. Al Lopez not voting for Nellie Fox because he was too busy promoting Joe Gordon. They also elected marginal players like one-hit wonder Bill Mazeroski.

 

Boyer over Santo - you are entitled to your opinion but why can't they both be in? 3rd base is seriously under represented in the Hall. Schmidt, Boggs, Brett ala are valid entries from an even more watered down pitching era (post 69 hmm isn't that when the Pilots/Brewers came into existence).

 

Keeping Santo out because he clicked his heels or because 3 other players are already in from a team that never won is ludicrous.

 

Memo to Mike Schmidt: You may be the best 3rd baseman but you are not the only one deserving of enshrinement.

Memo to Joe Morgan: You are not the best player ever; you are not even the best 2nd baseman.

 

Santo is finally in and he deserved it.

[Ennder]

He probably should have been in already but I can't help but think his commentating and personal struggles and recent death have more to do with this than anything which is sad. Then again if Dawson is in just about anyone deserves it.

[JohnBriggs12]

cubfan1126,

 

Now that Santo's in, Boyer should be too, but Boyer should have made it first. Unfortunately he died in 1982 and didn't spend two decades in the public eye on a 50,000 watt radio station. My problem with Santo is that he was never better than the third best hitter in a lineup that never won anything and he was done at 34.

 

Had he had two more productive years I could overlook the fact that Williams and Banks were better players than him on the same team.

[RockCoCougars]

Since we are discussing overlooked 3rd basemen from the 60's I'll raise the Boyer/Santo arguments with Dick Allen. Allen didn't play third long (apparently he was kind of the Ryan Braun of his day), but he guy was an absolute beast in an era where pitching dominated. Time to give his due.

[brains and braun]

Also glad to see Santo get in. A shame it couldn't happen while he was alive to see it.

[cubfan1126]

Dick Allen - Beast at the plate but I honestly think that Alfonso Soriano can field Left Field better than Allen could field 3rd base. He could have been a poster boy for the DH.

[brettac1]

Since we are discussing overlooked 3rd basemen from the 60's I'll raise the Boyer/Santo arguments with Dick Allen. Allen didn't play third long (apparently he was kind of the Ryan Braun of his day), but he guy was an absolute beast in an era where pitching dominated. Time to give his due.

X 2. He didn't play nice with media, etc., so that is also a big part of why he's not mentioned and why no reporter makes him their pet cause.

[gregmag]

I personally don't think he belongs (I'd take Ken Boyer over Santo myself), but if it was going to happen it should have happened when he was alive.

 

Boyer was the better player. Their numbers are close, but Boyer was an MVP (1964) and spent half of his career in the pre expansion era when pitching wasn't as watered down.

Great to see Santo elected. I think he's a deserving inductee, and the writers should have voted him in a long time ago.

 

Boyer seems like a decent candidate, and I never got to see either play. Statistically, although both played 15 seasons, Santo had over 1100 more PA (9396 to 8268). He had a better OBP (.362 to .349) and, barely, SLG (.464 to .462). Those offensive numbers are close, but if we look at them in context, Santo's edge grows quite a bit (125 career OPS+ to 116). OPS+ incorporates any effect that "watered down" pitching might have had. I'm pretty sure Santo's edge comes from the fact that he played the heart of his career during the dead-offense era of the late 1960s, whereas Boyer's last season of 500 PA was 1966. I'll take the guy who put up two more seasons' worth of appreciably better production.

 

As for being the third-best hitter in a lineup that didn't win anything . . . so what? Was he a great player or not? It isn't his fault that Banks and Williams were on his team, and it really isn't his fault that the Cubs didn't have any pitching. Any team in history that needed a championship-caliber third baseman would take Ron Santo in a second.

[joepepsi]

I've long felt both Santo and Boyer deserve to be in the HOF. Congratulations to Ron Santo and his family. RIP.

[bucksman4]

I am in the minority as I feel his accomplishments do not merit a HOF spot (in my opinion, if it takes this long to get elected, there's a reason). Having said that, I think now that he was elected, it really is rather worthless. I know that's not politically correct, but a deceased man whose passion was to be a HOF'er being nominated almost a year from his death is just wrong. It's as if they waited for this to happen in order to justify his election. If I were in Santo's family, I'd thank them and boycott the ceremony.

[PKBadger]

I know that's not politically correct, but a deceased man whose passion was to be a HOF'er

I'm happy that Santo will be honored, but does it bother anyone else that it was his passion to be a HOF'er? I think it's sad that these guys view it as necessary to validate their careers. It's not enough that you're beloved by millions of fans, people write books about you, you make a ton of cash (thinking of guys with broadcasting gigs like Santo and Blyleven)?

 

I was annoyed to read tweets like this one by Keith Law: "Congratulations to the Veterans Committee on electing Ron Santo a year too late for it to really matter." So his enshrinement and remembrance in the annals of baseball history don't matter since he can't soak up the attention or profit from it? Ridiculous.

 

(I realize that I shouldn't even bother getting upset at something Law wrote, since he's an ass.)

[jjkoestler]

Welcome to the Hall of Good, Ron. Well deserved.

[RobertR]

I've no problem with Santo getting inducted. There are plenty of players inducted that Santo is better than.

 

FWIW, I'm a proponent of inducting at least 1 player a year. Maybe it will water down the HoF standard a little, but it will keep the museum functioning and frankly that's a more important mission than a purely figurative honor.

 

Maybe it's time for someone to make the case for Ted Simmons again. Or Lou Whitaker. I suppose it opens the door for Mattingly eventually, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

Robert