Aramis Ramirez

[nate82]

RWeeksFan23]We'd lose our first round pick if we signed ARam correct?

No.

Link to players who will cost first round picks.

 

[BrycePecore]

I wouldn't be opposed to signing ARam to a 2yr/$24MM deal with a vesting option based on either plate appearances or games played, but there are a few stipulations.

 

1. It can't restrict them from extending Greinke (5yr/$90-95MM).

2. They sign a veteran set up man like Frank Fransisco or Jon Rauch (2yr/$8MM).

3. Sign an above average defensive SS like Furcal to shore up the left side of the infield (3yr/$21MM).

4. Trade Wolf to free up some payroll space and have Peralta and Fiers compete for the final rotation spot in spring training.

5. Resign Hairston Jr as an insurance policy in case Furcal or Ramirez gets injured for an extended period. (2yr/$5MM)

 

Starting Lineup.

Furcal ($7MM) - SS

Morgan ($1.5M) - CF

Braun ($6MM) - LF

Ramirez ($12MM) - 3B

Weeks ($10MM) - 2B

Hart ($9MM) - RF

Gamel ($414K) - 1B

Lucroy ($424K) - C

 

Bench:

Maldonado ($414K) - C

Hairston Jr ($2.5MM)- IF

Green ($414K) - IF

Gomez ($1.8M) - OF

Schafer/Gindl ($414K) - OF

 

Rotation:

Gallardo ($5.5MM)

Greinke ($13.5MM)

Marcum ($6.5MM)

Narveson ($441K)

Peralta/Fiers ($414K)

 

Bullpen:

Axford ($442K) - CL

Fransisco/Rauch ($4MM) - SU

Braddock ($414K) - SU

Saito/Hawkins ($2.5MM) - MR

Parra ($1.5MM) - MR

McClendon/Kintzler ($414K) - MR

Estrada ($414K) - LR

 

I believe this roster would make the Brewers preseason playoff contenders in 2012 with a payroll in the $86-$90MM range depending on arbitration salaries. The Brewers would start the season with a balanced lineup, solid starting rotation and experienced bullpen. Their only potential concerns could be the young bench excluding Hairston Jr and inexperienced 5th starter but both can be addressed before the trade deadline if Green, Gindl/Schafer, and/or Peralta/Fiers struggle.

[chadomac]

I don't approve of trading Wolf to free up payroll. For one, he's the only starter that has a team option after this coming season. Although it probably won't get picked up, it's nice to have a chance to retain at least ONE of the three pitchers that may leave post-2012. Second, and most importantly, that rotation isn't that good, and it's one injury away from being a total mess. We got really lucky that no one went down for too long in 2011 and we only had to use 6 starters. That is unlikely to happen again. Your proposed rotation is a big downgrade and a huge risk if someone gets hurt. And if Marcum doesn't recover we'd be even more screwed than we would be with our current rotation.

The rest of the ideas seem reasonable, I just don't think we can afford to trade a pitcher to free up payroll. The rotation was our demise, but it was also what got us so deep into October in the first place.

[BrycePecore]

I can see your point with the rotation depth but disagree about the need

to keep Wolf because of his 2013 option. The FA market next off season

is extremely deep so the Brewers should be able to find a solid middle

of the rotation starter to go along with Gallardo, Greinke and Narveson

plus the Brewers should have several young pitchers possibly ready to

step in by then (i.e. Peralta, Thornburg, and possibly Jungmann or

Bradley). As for this season, DM could always sign veteran or a low

risk/high reward starter like Harden or Millwood for example, this off

season for additional depth.

[greeg35]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/fanblogs/134988198.html

 

 

Breen saying possible offer made, possibly 3 years + mutual option for a fourth. My overall choice would be Green at third with McGehee getting AB's against lefties and spending our money elsewhere. I can understand the want to get him because Green and/or Gamel are unproven; but I wouldn't do it. If we are going with Ramirez I really do not like a 3 year contract.

[Invader3K]

If it's a three year deal, I hope the price per year is discounted a decent amount. Don't need to be paying him $10 million+ a season for three years.

[reillymcshane]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/fanblogs/134988198.html

 

 

Breen saying possible offer made, possibly 3 years + mutual option for a fourth. My overall choice would be Green at third with McGehee getting AB's against lefties and spending our money elsewhere. I can understand the want to get him because Green and/or Gamel are unproven; but I wouldn't do it. If we are going with Ramirez I really do not like a 3 year contract.

I totally agree with you on this, greeg35. I'd rather go with the guys we devleoped (at a low price) and get help elsewhere (SS, infield depth, relievers). Then have leftover for cash to make a move in season if necessary.

 

I have always said that if the Brewers are convinced Green and/or Gamel are going to be bombs, then you have to make some kind of move like this. Why they would be convinced of that is another question.

 

I just hate adding - for $10+ million - an aging, bad fielding player who has missed significant time in 2 of the last 3 seasons. If it was a for a year or two, sure. But for three and four years - that's big risk.

 

Oh well, if we get him, I just hope he can stay healthy. He'll be 34 next season, so I worry that injuries will become more common. And then there's the inevitable decline due to age.

 

On the plus side, if he plays 140+ games and his play doesn't slip too much, he's going to hit 25 HR. Maybe more. Hopefully he comes in excited to play, in good shape, etc.

[brewtank34]

I personally would welcome ARam. I have a feeling that Melvin is going to go with Yuni at SS which would save the Crew a load of money for more offense and BP help. While I'd want a better SS, it is proven that Yuni at the bottom of the line-up is a servicable SS. We went to the NLCS with Yuni at SS so he definitely wasn't a major downfall last year. I want some protection for Braun and ARam definitely provides that. Count me in the group that would enjoy seeing ARam at 3B.

[Crew2323]

I could actually see the Brewers signing A-Ram and then signing Alex Gonzalez for SS because if Gonzalez and Yuni are pretty much equals with the bat, you'd get better defense with Gonzalez.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Exactly, signing A-Ram would likely mean we'll target a defensive SS, and Gonzalez would fit that bill. This would be a pretty solid lineup.

Hart - RF
Morgan - CF
Braun - LF
Ramirez - 3B
Weeks - 2B
Gamel - 1B
Gonzalez - SS
Lucroy - C

[Polish Falcons]

PrinceEatMeat wrote:

Pretty much everyone believes that the reports of the Cubs being interested in Prince and Pujols are just a smokescreen.

Looks like you may be on an island with that thought http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Even if the Cubs aren't interested in Pujols/Fielder it would make sense for them to pretend like they are to potentially drive up cost for their competitor. I think the Red Sox & Yankees were known to do this so I don't see why Epstien would't do it with the Cubs. I don't know if it's the case or not with Prince, and nobody does, but I can see PrincEatMeats point.

[TCSM]

If we sign ARam I would be much happier getting a guy like Furcal rather then Yuni or A. Gonzalez. Make it happen Melvin!

[TooLiveBrew]

I just hate adding - for $10+ million - an aging, bad fielding player who has missed significant time in 2 of the last 3 seasons. If it was a for a year or two, sure. But for three and four years - that's big risk.

 

I definitely agree with your points here. However, what it made me think of was all of the hypothetical discussions BF.netters have had over the past ~5 seasons regarding Fielder & his defense. The line that was always thrown around was something like, 'Yes, Prince's offense is amazing, but his defense really cuts into his value. You can find corner IF bats that won't be huge overall drops-off from Fielder's net production' -- well, here's one tangible example of that. In terms of just a season-to-season analysis, Ramirez's offense shouldn't be expected to be that much worse than Fielder's, given that he can play a passable 3B & probably a decent 1B. Obviously A-Ram's age is where the concerns & projected gaps in production would come from.

 

Now I don't mean to start any debate about whether or not Ramirez is more valuable than Prince, or that the Brewers should sign him for any more than two or three seasons. But this just stands out as a real-world instance of that hypothetical that was discussed time & time again about the Brewers' life after Fielder. I just find it interesting.

[PilprinBuddha]

Aram and Furcal....I can live with that...Still prefer Cuddyer....but since we aren't even connected at any level with him....I'll move on.

[BREWCREW5]

Aram seems to be really streaky. I am too lazy to look this up. Anyone want to chime in. He seems like he has either been on a tear or terrible.

[BrycePecore]

We can have an infield of ARam, Furcal, Weeks and Gamel for roughly $30MM/yr while Fielder alone would likely cost $25MM/yr. And don't forget the Brewers commitment to ARam and Furcal will expire in half the time (3 years versus 6+). I would prefer they go with ARam and Furcal on 3 year deals and hope by 2015 both spots can be filled from within their farm system.

[PrinceEatMeat]

We can have an infield of ARam, Furcal, Weeks and Gamel for roughly $30MM/yr while Fielder alone would likely cost $25MM/yr. And don't forget the Brewers commitment to ARam and Furcal will expire in half the time (3 years versus 6+). I would prefer they go with ARam and Furcal on 3 year deals and hope by 2015 both spots can be filled from within their farm system.

Yep, this really spells out how stupid it would be to sign Fielder for $25MM/year. Can fill 2 needs instead.

[Oldcity]

How on Earth could they afford A-Ram and Furcal? That would put them well above last year's payroll before adding utility infielders or like three relievers.

[BrycePecore]

How on Earth could they afford A-Ram and Furcal? That would put them well above last year's payroll before adding utility infielders or like three relievers.

Earlier in this thread I showed in an example how this could be possible while keeping their payroll in the $85-$90MM range. So it is possible.

[Oldcity]

The problem I'd have with your plan, while it's pretty creative, is that it leaves them very thin in the rotation. Narveson/Fiers/Peralta not very dependable for a 4-5-6 in a rotation. I think they need to keep Wolf, hand third base to Green, first base to Gamel, and use their money to get a shortstop upgrade.

 

Green and Gamel are cheap for three years. The Brewers need to give them a shot, because if they produce, they'll be very valuable.

[BrycePecore]

The problem I'd have with your plan, while it's pretty creative, is that it leaves them very thin in the rotation. Narveson/Fiers/Peralta not very dependable for a 4-5-6 in a rotation. I think they need to keep Wolf, hand third base to Green, first base to Gamel, and use their money to get a shortstop upgrade.

DM can also sign a Garland or Pinero type pitcher for $5MM or less to fill out the rotation and provide a bit more depth. This would put them around the $90-95MM range which is quite realistic considering their increase in revenue from making the playoffs last season. Harang, Francis and Marquis are also possibilities.

[logan82]

There will be very little gain in revenue from making the playoffs. Our TV and Radio contract is already set and we are not likely to see much if any upsurge in attendance. We may have made more money from the actual playoff games but that will be used up pretty quick. That was probably already used on 2011's payroll.

[Oldcity]

What are you really saving then if it's Garland at 5 mil vs. Wolf at 9?

[BrycePecore]

What are you really saving then if it's Garland at 5 mil vs. Wolf at 9?

$4-5MM which allows them to sign Furcal for $7MM/yr versus Betancourt/Gonzalez for $2MM/yr. or to add a quality set up man like Fransisco or Rauch to their diminished bullpen. It could also be used to resign Hairston Jr and Hawkins/Siato. DM can do quite a bit with an extra $4-5MM if he plays his cards right.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think it's gonna be either Ramirez or Rollins, and that'll be it. If it's Ramirez, someone like Gonzalez will be signed to man SS.