Aramis Ramirez

[ramssuperbowl99]

I think that the Brewers should offer Ramirez 2 year/$20 million. Kick in a few performance incentives for ASG appearances, etc. that could take it up a few million a year to keep him motivated. If he truly wants to stay close to home, maybe he will take it. Teams don't seem to be beating his doors down either.

Aram turned down a guaranteed $15m for 2012 from the Cubs. He's not signing a 2 year deal for $20m unless the market completely collapses.

I'm assuming that you are talking about arbitration. As I said, I'd kick in few few million per year in incentives as well. He also got $2 million from the Cubs to go away. If that's not good enough, he can take his talents elsewhere. I've went back and forth on this guy, and I've decided that I wouldn't go more than two years. If Melvin won't go two years on guys like Hinske or JHJ, why should he go three or even four years on Ramirez? Much more risky if you ask me, especially when I'm not convinced that anyone will give him three years.

Because Ramirez is better than JHJ or Eric Hinske and it's not even close?

That's almost like saying, "If the Cardinals were only willing to give Rafael Furcal 2 years why did they offer Albert Pujols 10?"

[RockCoCougars]

Because Ramirez is better than JHJ or Eric Hinske and it's not even close?

 

Exponentially more expensive as well. If Melvin hesitated to give Hinske an extra two million, but then doesn't have a problem giving Ramirez an extra twenty, that makes no sense to me. As I said, I'd offer two years and that's it.

[ramssuperbowl99]

Because Ramirez is better than JHJ or Eric Hinske and it's not even close?

 

Exponentially more expensive as well. If Melvin hesitated to give Hinske an extra two million, but then doesn't have a problem giving Ramirez an extra twenty, that makes no sense to me. As I said, I'd offer two years and that's it.

This organizational philosophy brought to you by the Pittsburgh Pirates.

[The Truth]

Ramirez is completely a Doug Melvin type of player: veteran with home run power, not the greatest fielder but a former All-Star.

[RockCoCougars]

Because Ramirez is better than JHJ or Eric Hinske and it's not even close?

 

Exponentially more expensive as well. If Melvin hesitated to give Hinske an extra two million, but then doesn't have a problem giving Ramirez an extra twenty, that makes no sense to me. As I said, I'd offer two years and that's it.

This organizational philosophy brought to you by the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Ramirez isn't that good. He's a butcher afield, and no spring chicken who has been known for having big contract years. The odds of him hitting 30 homers in a given season for the Brewers are probably substantially less than the odds of him missing 30 games. There is a reason that the Cubs paid him to go away. They didn't want to commit even one more season to him, that should tell you something. The guy didn't even want to play for a winner last season unless substantial money was involved, so I question his motivations. I will grant that he is better than any option that the Brewers currently have at third, but if Melvin gives him, say 4 year/$45-50 million, he will almost certainly regret it. This is why I would give him two years, tops. If Ramirez was that hot a target, he'd be gone already.

 

My point was that Melvin is letting great bang for the buck type players slip away for a few million. (He appears to be in the process of this now with Saito as well) I'm not saying that these guys would be starters, but they would be better than the mostly garbage bench that the Brewers had last season. If he is playing hardball with them, why wouldn't he for even more money? Knowing the Brewers luck with injuries, do you really want a bench of minimum salary guys?

[Bnowell4evr]

Because Ramirez is better than JHJ or Eric Hinske and it's not even close?

 

Exponentially more expensive as well. If Melvin hesitated to give Hinske an extra two million, but then doesn't have a problem giving Ramirez an extra twenty, that makes no sense to me. As I said, I'd offer two years and that's it.

This organizational philosophy brought to you by the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Ramirez isn't that good. He's a butcher afield, and no spring chicken who has been known for having big contract years. The odds of him hitting 30 homers in a given season for the Brewers are probably substantially less than the odds of him missing 30 games. There is a reason that the Cubs paid him to go away. They didn't want to commit even one more season to him, that should tell you something. The guy didn't even want to play for a winner last season unless substantial money was involved, so I question his motivations. I will grant that he is better than any option that the Brewers currently have at third, but if Melvin gives him, say 4 year/$45-50 million, he will almost certainly regret it. This is why I would give him two years, tops. If Ramirez was that hot a target, he'd be gone already.

 

My point was that Melvin is letting great bang for the buck type players slip away for a few million. (He appears to be in the process of this now with Saito as well) I'm not saying that these guys would be starters, but they would be better than the mostly garbage bench that the Brewers had last season. If he is playing hardball with them, why wouldn't he for even more money? Knowing the Brewers luck with injuries, do you really want a bench of minimum salary guys?

The Cubs exercised their part of the $16M option and Ramirez opted out which goes against everything you said in your little rant.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7172437/agent-says-chicago-cubs-picked-option-aramis-ramirez-opt-out

[RockCoCougars]

The Cubs exercised their part of the $16M option and Ramirez opted out which goes against everything you said in your little rant.

 

 

From the article:

 

"The Cubs had two choices, either pick up the option or pay Ramirez a $2 million buyout in 2012.

 

By offering the contract, the Cubs will be able to offer arbitration, which in turn brings them a second-round draft pick in the June 2012 draft if Ramirez signs elsewhere. In essence, the first move by team president Theo Epstein will save the team $2 million on the buyout. "

 

This was a strategic move made for draft choices knowing that Ramirez was going to try to cash in on free agency. It could have backfired a la the K-Rod thing. They would have moved him in a heartbeat last summer had he not been under 10-5 trade protection. I was mistaken that I thought they had to pay the two million buyout, but the points in my rant are valid.

[brewtank34]

Ramirez isn't that good. He's a butcher afield, and no spring chicken who has been known for having big contract years. The odds of him hitting 30 homers in a given season for the Brewers are probably substantially less than the odds of him missing 30 games. There is a reason that the Cubs paid him to go away. They didn't want to commit even one more season to him, that should tell you something. The guy didn't even want to play for a winner last season unless substantial money was involved, so I question his motivations. I will grant that he is better than any option that the Brewers currently have at third, but if Melvin gives him, say 4 year/$45-50 million, he will almost certainly regret it. This is why I would give him two years, tops. If Ramirez was that hot a target, he'd be gone already.

 

My point was that Melvin is letting great bang for the buck type players slip away for a few million. (He appears to be in the process of this now with Saito as well) I'm not saying that these guys would be starters, but they would be better than the mostly garbage bench that the Brewers had last season. If he is playing hardball with them, why wouldn't he for even more money? Knowing the Brewers luck with injuries, do you really want a bench of minimum salary guys?

I don't need him to hit 30 HRs. I just need him to hit 22-25, get 90-100 RBI's, continue his above .300 avg, and have a suitable OBP. All things that ARam will bring to us in the clean-up role. We need a clean up hitter and he is the perfect person on the market this year to protect Braun. His glove is average. Not the best, but not the worst. Weeks, Hart, Gamel are not clean-up hitters! This signing would allow our line-up to stay flexible and productive. ARam is exactly what we need.

 

 

[JohnBriggs12]

"I just need him to hit 22-25, get 90-100 RBI's, continue his above .300 average and have a suitable OPB".

 

It's unrealistic to think that from age 34-36 that a career .284 hitter will continue to hit above .300. He's certainly not going to leg out many hits. He's a below average defender with the potential to injure his shoulder again.

 

I think it's realistic for him to hit 25 HR and drive in 90 runs, and hit around .285 assuming he stays healthy. Is that worth $13-14 million per year given the risks of age and possible recurring shoulder issues? Not in my world. If his price falls to around $10 million a year, ok.

[The Truth]

I'd be surprised if Aramis Ramirez didn't hit 30 HR's playing 81 games in Miller Park. Granted, Wrigley Field is a HR park, too, but playing indoors in April & September trumps those cold winds sometimes blowing in at Wrigley.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I think there's alot of misinfo and lot of negative bias for whatever reason against ARAM. Sign this guy and there's a great chance we'll win the division again, thats enough for me. Go to 3 years if you have to.

 

Small market mentality coming through again http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[MVP2110]

I think there's alot of misinfo and lot of negative bias for whatever reason against ARAM. Sign this guy and there's a great chance we'll win the division again, thats enough for me. Go to 3 years if you have to.

 

Small market mentality coming through again http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I totally agree with this statement. Plus I'm a big believer in once you get to the playoffs anything can happen so I am all for this signing.

[joepepsi]

Weeks, Hart, Gamel are not clean-up hitters!

I'm fine with signing ARam; he'll make the team better. But I just gotta point out:

 

Hart Career: 277/334/487

ARam Career: 284/342/500

 

Last two seasons combined:

Hart: 283/340/525

ARam: 284/348/518

 

Overshadowed by Prince and Braun, Brewers fans don't appreciate how good Hart has become.

[RockCoCougars]

Small market mentality coming through again

 

No. I just think that it's silly to be penny wise pound foolish. If they are going to give Ramirez $14 million or so, may as well give Prince low 20's.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ramirez isn't that good. He's a butcher afield, and no spring chicken who has been known for having big contract years.

 

"I dislike and/or don't want player x" is quite different from "player x isn't that good". By your logic, I could arrive at the conclusion that Aramis Ramirez was in the last year of a contract every season from 2004-2009. He's been one of the best 3B of his era, even with defense factored in.

[RockCoCougars]

Ramirez isn't that good. He's a butcher afield, and no spring chicken who has been known for having big contract years.

 

"I dislike and/or don't want player x" is quite different from "player x isn't that good". By your logic, I could arrive at the conclusion that Aramis Ramirez was in the last year of a contract every season from 2004-2009. He's been one of the best 3B of his era, even with defense factored in.

Well, just check his stats and games played in 2004, 2006 and 2011. All of those could be considered 'contract years' for Ramirez. Three out of four of his highest games played totals have been in those seasons. Coincidence? Maybe.

[TooLiveBrew]

Nothing has ever come out (that I've read or heard) about his work ethic or anything like that. His highest games-played total (which is kind of an absurd qualifier to use, but oh well) was in 2003, which was by no definition a contract year. So yes, coincidence most likely.

 

I get it, you don't want to see the Brewers invest in him -- but please stop with "he's not that good". He's been an elite third baseman over the course of his career.

[mrbergmann]

Does anyone else wonder how/if the news on Braun affects the negotiations with Ramirez and his desire to come to Milwaukee??

[brewmann04]

If braun is indeed suspended then it really does not matter who they sign.

[RockCoCougars]

Nothing has ever come out (that I've read or heard) about his work ethic or anything like that. His highest games-played total (which is kind of an absurd qualifier to use, but oh well) was in 2003, which was by no definition a contract year. So yes, coincidence most likely.

 

I get it, you don't want to see the Brewers invest in him -- but please stop with "he's not that good". He's been an elite third baseman over the course of his career.

I have no problem in the Brewers investing in him for a shorter team deal. If they give him four years, I think they are insane though. I will admit that I've never liked the guy's attitude going back to Pittsburgh, where his defense/attitude/work ethic was definitely in question. Why do you think that they gave him away? He's definitely been one of, if not the best hitting third basemen of the past 10 years, but he's no spring chicken anymore, and he's likely past his prime. He's 34 years old with a history of shoulder problems. An old 34, considering this coming season will be his 17th in pro ball.

 

I'm not 100% against signing Ramirez, but I'm being the devil's advocate here. I also don't want to hear that there is not money to keep Grienke next year because they signed Ramirez.

[TooLiveBrew]

Why do you think that they gave him away?

 

Because they're beginning a rebuilding process & it would make zero sense to keep around the guy with durability questions who's entering his age-34 season. They weren't serious contenders for the past however many seasons & obviously wanted him.

 

 

I also don't want to hear that there is not money to keep Grienke next year because they signed Ramirez.

 

While I'm not sure how likely or unlikely it'd be that a Ramirez contract would preclude the Brewers from signing Greinke, I definitely agree with this sentiment. I tend to doubt it, but like I've said before, I can definitely respect you (or anyone) saying they don't want to see the Brewers sign A-Ram.

[RockCoCougars]

Why do you think that they gave him away?

 

I was referring to Pittsburgh back in the day. Obviously, stupidity played a role as the trade looked horrible from the start, but I remember that he had a few issues there as well. Obviously, he was pretty young, so immaturity may have played a role.

 

Bottom line, I'm not saying that Ramirez would be a bad get. But I think giving more than two years would be a huge blunder. The Brewers luck in free agency has been pretty bad, and I'm not sure that I like that idea of giving a guy that 'last big contract'. The last time the Brewers signed an aging star third baseman to a huge deal (back then it was probably half a million a season, or something!), it was Sal Bando. That signing gave the franchise some legitimacy, and he helped as a leader, but he really didn't play very well for the Brewers.

[TooLiveBrew]

I was referring to Pittsburgh back in the day.

 

Hmmm, my reading comprehension fail. I won't use a bad trade to label someone as a problem, though. The guy played for one org. after that trade, clearly any issues you're implying here are at best way overblown.

[The Kid 24]

I hope this isn't true... We really need ARam!!

 

http://www.csnchicago.com...=610380&feedID=10336

[TooLiveBrew]

"Is Prince still possible?" asks Jon Heyman, for Scott Boras.