Brewers may be looking in at White Sox LH reliever Matt Thornton

[Mass Haas]

LINK

Ken Williams is in a great position to deal one or two veteran relievers. By exercising Jason Frasor’s $3.75-million option last month, the White Sox made them four or five deep in right-handed relievers, depending on whether Zach Stewart pitches out of the rotation or bullpen. Williams can listen to offers for Jesse Crain and Frasor, but the most likely guy to get dealt is Matt Thornton.

 

The 35-year-old lefty signed a deal last spring that guarantees him $12 million over the next two years, and remains one of the best lefty set-up guys in the majors. The Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Cardinals and Brewers are among the teams that appear to be tracking Thornton’s availability.

 

Williams recently added a potential replacement for Thornton, signing minor-league free agent Donnie Veal to a major-league contract, which protects him from the upcoming Rule 5 draft. Left-hander Charlie Leesman is another possibility.

 

Leesman, who was solid as a starter for Double-A Birmingham last season, is working out of the bullpen for Mayaguez this winter. He has pitched well, allowing two hits and one walk over 7 2-3 innings in his last six outings.

[chickinbrickin]

No thanks, the guy is on the decline. K's going down ERA going up. Not sure what it would take in a trade to get him, but there isn't really anyone I would give up for him.

[RockCoCougars]

Way too much money for a setup guy. Unless the Sox want to eat some salary and take little or nothing back in return, I pass.

[GamelToe]

Way too much money for a setup guy. Unless the Sox want to eat some salary and take little or nothing back in return, I pass.

this

[dadofandrew]

I'd love to have Thornton, though I would not deal a top five prospect to get him. His velocity is still outstanding, and his K numbers are probably just from pitching smarter, going for more first pitch outs. At 2y/$12M, it's not that much more than what you'd pay a decent middle man, and he'd provide great insurance for Axford. No split either.

 

They paid KRod about $6M per for half a season, I don't see it as a problem paying Thornton that for a full year. I'd have no problem going 2 years if he were a FA. Guys like Howry got $3M a year several years ago, so did Hawkins. The cost has gone up.

[JohnBriggs12]

He's certainly not cheap and I wouldn't want him to close, but considering the cost of quality bullpen arms, they could do a lot worse and Thornton would certainly allow them to non tender Loe. If it's purely a salary dump on the part of the White Sox, then I'd be all for it.

 

Thornton was a bit unlucky last year. He gave up a number of seeing-eye hits early in the year. He could bounce back and be real effective in a new league.

[YoungGeezy]

Too expensive and really don't want to give up any quality for him. If Braddock can get back to were he needs emotionally/physically (his bipolar disorder and the sleep issues) I think he is just as good if not better than Thorton while he is also 10 years younger, and 5-6 million cheaper.

[dadofandrew]

Braddock averaged 93 in '10, while Thornton has thrown 96 the past two years. That's a huge difference, never mind Zach may never pitch again with his "other" problems.

[thebruce44]

I'd love to have Thornton, though I would not deal a top five prospect to get him. His velocity is still outstanding, and his K numbers are probably just from pitching smarter, going for more first pitch outs. At 2y/$12M, it's not that much more than what you'd pay a decent middle man, and he'd provide great insurance for Axford. No split either.

 

They paid KRod about $6M per for half a season, I don't see it as a problem paying Thornton that for a full year. I'd have no problem going 2 years if he were a FA. Guys like Howry got $3M a year several years ago, so did Hawkins. The cost has gone up.

Well, just to be clear, the Mets actually paid KRod last year. They sent that money in the trade. In the past we've shown a willingness to spend on BP arm, but with the way the team is constructed next season I don't see that happening again.

[YoungGeezy]

I have no problem getting him but has to be for a reasonable price. White Sox will want some young talent and right now we are a year away from having real trade value in our system. Have the best value Peralta, Thornburg, Gennett. Green, Schaefer, Gindl, Scarpetta, Manzanillo I think would have a little bit as well but outside of that...not much. Do we want to give any of these guys up.

 

A lefty who those 93 with flithy off-speed stuff may not be as sexy as a 96mph fastball but still pretty nice. But like you said, who knows what can be expected with Braddock. Pretty scary that he has had meltdowns twice in three years (in AA missed much of the season trying to control his disorder and this year my guess his sleep issues, showing up on time, performance was directly related to is disorder.) If he is able to gain control, he is a legit 8th inning guy.

[sheetskout]

I'd rather take a shot at him (assuming the deal is friendly and 1-2 years) than bring back a 42-year-old Takashi Saito.

[nate82]

The only way I would want to get Thornton from the White Sox and the Brewers giving up a prospect is if the White Sox are paying nearly all of Thornton's contract or Alexei Ramirez or Eduardo Escobar are coming along in the trade. I would trade a legit prospect if the Brewers were to get both Ramirez and Thornton in the deal but no way would I trade anything of interest for Thornton maybe do a McGehee for Thornton swap but I think McGehee may have more value to a team like the Phillies or the Angels who both need a 3B.

Maybe a trade of McGehee and Rivas for Thornton and Escobar. Escobar may not be ready offensively this coming season but he will be defensively not sure if the White Sox would do this but it does clear a lot of payroll for them.

[JohnBriggs12]

I agree with Al here. Some of you are vastly underrating Thornton's talent. Braddock isn't in the same category even with no off field issues. Yes he's older but not as old as Hawkins and Saito were and he works in the mid 90's. Thornton is no loogy either. He can dominate hitters from either side. They don't have any setup guys under contract right now. They have to fill one or two spots and quality doesn't come cheap. Thornton's salary is in line with his talent so even if the team is out of it, he's still marketable. The Sox have him on the market because they can use some salary relief. The key is not whether the Brewers pay his salary (he's worth it), it's whether the Sox would demand a great deal of value back. Thornton is a guy that can make letting Loe and his likely $2.5 million arby award go. That's plenty of salary relief for me.

[YoungGeezy]

The only way I would want to get Thornton from the White Sox and the Brewers giving up a prospect is if the White Sox are paying nearly all of Thornton's contract or Alexei Ramirez or Eduardo Escobar are coming along in the trade. I would trade a legit prospect if the Brewers were to get both Ramirez and Thornton in the deal but no way would I trade anything of interest for Thornton maybe do a McGehee for Thornton swap but I think McGehee may have more value to a team like the Phillies or the Angels who both need a 3B.

Maybe a trade of McGehee and Rivas for Thornton and Escobar. Escobar may not be ready offensively this coming season but he will be defensively not sure if the White Sox would do this but it does clear a lot of payroll for them.

If we could get Thornton and Ramirez, I'd be pretty happy. He'd be hitting two birds (8th inning and SS) with one stone. Not sure how much that would cost though. I'd be willing to eat more contract if we get to pay less in terms of prospects. Ramirez is one of the most consistant offensive SS out there.He can hit for some power, drive in runs, doesn't strikeout a ton, has posted a WAR over 4 the past 2 seasons and he rates really well in Range, UZR.

[dadofandrew]

Jon Broxton got $4M and no one knows if he'll be able to pitch next year. $6M for Thornton is not too much at all. Solid relief guys get paid well.

[nate82]

The only way I would want to get Thornton from the White Sox and the Brewers giving up a prospect is if the White Sox are paying nearly all of Thornton's contract or Alexei Ramirez or Eduardo Escobar are coming along in the trade. I would trade a legit prospect if the Brewers were to get both Ramirez and Thornton in the deal but no way would I trade anything of interest for Thornton maybe do a McGehee for Thornton swap but I think McGehee may have more value to a team like the Phillies or the Angels who both need a 3B.

Maybe a trade of McGehee and Rivas for Thornton and Escobar. Escobar may not be ready offensively this coming season but he will be defensively not sure if the White Sox would do this but it does clear a lot of payroll for them.

If we could get Thornton and Ramirez, I'd be pretty happy. He'd be hitting two birds (8th inning and SS) with one stone. Not sure how much that would cost though. I'd be willing to eat more contract if we get to pay less in terms of prospects. Ramirez is one of the most consistant offensive SS out there.He can hit for some power, drive in runs, doesn't strikeout a ton, has posted a WAR over 4 the past 2 seasons and he rates really well in Range, UZR.

Ramirez would require the Brewers trading at least one of Peralta or Thornburg along with some other pieces. If the White Sox are serious about cutting payroll and getting younger then trading both Alexi and Thornton in a trade with the Brewers would make some sense. The problem with Alexi is that he is well underpaid for a SS of his caliber which is very valuable even with the White Sox having an as good or better defensive SS in the minors with Escobar. I would love to get Alexi but I think the price tag to get him is more than what the Brewers can afford or even have in prospects.

I think this would be close to getting a Thornton and Alexi trade to work would be something like this: Peralta, Schafer, Rogers and McGehee for Thornton and Alexi. With this move the White Sox clear a lot of payroll about $6.5m worth assuming McGehee gets somewhere around $3m. This also allows the White Sox to move Beckham back to 2B. I actually don't even think this would be enough but this is all that I would want to give up I believe the White Sox would ask for both Peralta and Thornburg along with someone like Schafer or Gindl. I don't see the White Sox eating payroll on a player so to even it out the Brewers would send McGehee over in the trade which would be a smaller hit in terms of taking on part of Thornton's contract.

Just to put it in perspective Alexi Ramirez has a very team friendly contract.

12:$5M, 13:$7M, 14:$9.5M, 15:$10M, 16:$10M club option ($1M buyout)

[JohnBriggs12]

Alexi Ramirez is a reach. But perhaps Gordon Beckham, who was drafted as a SS could be had. He's almost worn out his welcome on the south side but he's blessed with plenty of talent and a change of scenery might be in order. They'll definitely want something of value for that kind of package though.

[nate82]

Alexi Ramirez is a reach. But perhaps Gordon Beckham, who was drafted as a SS could be had. He's almost worn out his welcome on the south side but he's blessed with plenty of talent and a change of scenery might be in order. They'll definitely want something of value for that kind of package though.

Beckham can not play SS! He is a 2B or a 3B he does not have the range nor the defense to even think about playing him at SS. Why do people keep on suggesting 2B who are just about average there as a possible fit as a SS?

[RockCoCougars]

Must....resist... opportunity to go on annual rant about how Beckham is one of the most overrated players in the game...... ahhh.... he's a poor man's Casey McGehee.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[monty57]

Jon Broxton got $4M and no one knows if he'll be able to pitch next year. $6M for Thornton is not too much at all. Solid relief guys get paid well.

 

I don't doubt that he's worth the 2/$12MM. I just have a hard time justifying trading away talent for a middle reliever who will make 2/$12MM, when we wouldn't pull the trigger on one of the few available good, everyday SS for 2/$10MM when we wouldn't have had to trade away talent.

 

It seems that we have a very limited amount of money to dole out this offseason. The two areas of greatest need are SS and the bullpen. Personally I feel the starting SS is more important than a LH reliever, but I fear we'll "go cheap" on SS, and spend our limited money on relievers.

[fleehaw]

I think this would be close to getting a Thornton and Alexi trade to work would be something like this: Peralta, Schafer, Rogers and McGehee for Thornton and Alexi. With this move the White Sox clear a lot of payroll about $6.5m worth assuming McGehee gets somewhere around $3m. This also allows the White Sox to move Beckham back to 2B. I actually don't even think this would be enough but this is all that I would want to give up I believe the White Sox would ask for both Peralta and Thornburg along with someone like Schafer or Gindl. I don't see the White Sox eating payroll on a player so to even it out the Brewers would send McGehee over in the trade which would be a smaller hit in terms of taking on part of Thornton's contract.

Just to put it in perspective Alexi Ramirez has a very team friendly contract.

12:$5M, 13:$7M, 14:$9.5M, 15:$10M, 16:$10M club option ($1M buyout)

Although I believe it's a pipe dream, I'd love for the Brewers to land Ramirez and Thornton. With the departure of Pierre, the White Sox may have some interest in Morgan (IMO, a sell high candidate).

 

The White Sox could select two of: Thornburg, Scarpetta, Heckathorn, and Bucci. Select one of: Gennet, Richardson, or KhDavis. Add Morgan and McGehee. The Sox save roughly $6M this year while the Brewers only add $6M while filling SS for the long term along with an 8th inning guy.

 

The idea of Betancourt playing SS for the Brewers in '12 made me throw up a little bit in my mouth.

 

 

 

[reillymcshane]

Although I believe it's a pipe dream, I'd love for the Brewers to land Ramirez and Thornton. With the departure of Pierre, the White Sox may have some interest in Morgan (IMO, a sell high candidate).

 

I believe the White Sox have a requirement that they have to carry a rag arm, slap hitting OF each season. Scott Podsednik and Pierre having carried the tradition bravely. Morgan would be a perfect candidate to carry on the tradition.

[JohnBriggs12]

Although I believe it's a pipe dream, I'd love for the Brewers to land Ramirez and Thornton. With the departure of Pierre, the White Sox may have some interest in Morgan (IMO, a sell high candidate).

 

I believe the White Sox have a requirement that they have to carry a rag arm, slap hitting OF each season. Scott Podsednik and Pierre having carried the tradition bravely. Morgan would be a perfect candidate to carry on the tradition.

 

Yeah all Podsednik did was help them win a World Series. Pierre wasn't their problem last year, Dunn and Rios were. They let Pierre go because they have Alejandro De Aza who they like very much. De Aza is younger and cheaper. They aren't looking for a Morgan. Besides Podsednik and Pierre were guys Ozzie liked and Ozzie is in Florida. They aren't going to deal Ramirez. They have a highly regarded prospect in Eduardo Escobar, but he hasn't hit enough to be an everyday SS in the big leagues.

[dadofandrew]

Capps got $4.25M, after a 4.25 ERA and 1.4 HR/9. Broxton got $4M and just had elbow surgery.

 

The market for relief pitching is rising. Those that think Thornton is overpaid are living in 2002.

 

EDIT: Now reported as $4.75M guaranteed for Capps.

[MNBrew]

Heck, I'd settle for living in 2009 or 2010. These heading-into-2012 prices are stupid beyond belief.

 

That said, there's still only so much money to go around and some of these guys aren't going to get the payday they're convinced (or their agents are convinced) is coming their way.

 

Invoking that logic, and remembering that Saito was a mid-January signing, it's highly possible at least one key contributor to our 2012 bullpen is still 6-8 weeks from actually becoming a Brewer.