Brewers Offer Arby to Prince and Krod

[Baldkin]

Question, to those who know more about Arbitration than me:

 

Doesn't him accepting to be a setup guy then pull him from the pool of closers and into the pool of setup guys, like Hawkins, and Saito.... where he should get paid a LOT less?

Why should he get "Closers money" if he AGREED to NOT be a closer?

Could the Brewers make that argument?

[Yeti73]

I doubt he is on our roster come opening day. Some team will need a closer come Spring Training. It seems to me that there is a free spending team with a new ugly logo that may have a need at closer. I know it is a long-shot, but what if we sent KRod and $ to Marlins for Anibal Sanchez, Bonafacio or Infante?

 

If he is on his roster at end of ST: if we're a contender next year, it will be partially due to our shut down pen and KRod's performance. If we're not a contender and we're hanging around .500, KRod will net some quality depth from someone in the race. If you look at it that way, it really isn't a terrible deal. Anyone who says that this forecloses Ramirez, thereby foreclosing a contender season is crazy.

 

I'll miss Saito though. I loved watching him pitch. He had great movement on those pitches.

[RightFieldCoder]

K-Rod as non-closer can be used whenever it makes the most sense.

Nope. He can only be used in the 8th inning. Loe or Estrada will face the heart of the order in the 7th.

Perhaps K-Rod can go two innings from time to time, such as when Axford had pitched 2 or 3 days in a row.

Nope. He is a 1 inning pitcher. If Axford needs a day off, K-Rod will get the 9th. Loe or Estrada will face the heart of the order in the 8th.

 

Jeez, it's like you're looking at numbers to calculate what's best for the team. You don't take into consideration the unwritten rules, hunches, animal entrails, and other hocus pocus that real managers use to make their decisions.

 

Hopefully I laid it on thick enough for people to know this entire post is in a blue font so dark it only looks like normal black text.

[burnzy24]

I guess Melvin has new comments in the JS this morning saying Saito is basically gone.

Edit: Here it is: "We still like our ball club. We won last year because a lot of our strength was our starting pitching and bullpen. We've still got all five starters back and now we've got K-Rod, Axford, Loe and Estrada. We're losing Hawkins and Saito."

I'd much rather have Saito than Loe. I also think it would be better for the organization to try to put Estrada in the minors as a starter, a position where he has had success, than to keep putting him in the LR role where he has much less success. Why he isn't non-tendering Loe is a mystery to me, but then again, alot of Melvin's bullpen moves have been puzzling to me lately,

[LouisEly]

This is a team that won 96 games without a lefty in the bullpen, with Loe misused as a setup man for half the season, with McGehee and Yuni stinking up the joint, and significant time lost due to injury for Grienke, Saito, Hawkins, Kintzler, Hart, Braun, Weeks, and Gomez.

 

If they lose Fielder, he's what, a 5 WAR? They bring back the same team they win at least 91 games with no improvement at SS, 3B, or LH relief. Having K-Rod as the 8th inning guy instead of Loe will save them at least two more wins.

 

And I want no part of Ramirez. They have enough RH hitters in the lineup - they need LH balance. They need Green to play 3B if nothing else besides he hits lefty.

[Patrick425]

Seems like whatever Melvin does in the next 2 to 3 weeks will tip his hand about his plans for K-Rod. If he does nothing with the bullpen, it would be hard for him to trade or drop K-Rod in February or March (unless he got some sort of bullpen help in return). To me, them telling Hawkins to hold on until they see what K-Rod does is an early indication that they plan on keeping him. I'm not sure how much chances they had to land Saito anyways. From what I have read there seemed to be a lot of interest in him.

 

I'm not nearly as high as others hear on Taylor Green. He may be one of the Brewer's top prospects, but then again, the Brewers currently have one of the lowest rated minor leagues systems in baseball (after all the trades last off season). I don't know if Green will even bust the top 100 prospects list on Baseball America and if he does I can't see him any higher than 75 or 80. To me it seems like, at best, he has a Jerry Hairston Jr. type career in front of him.

 

Someone made this statement a few pages ago (sorry can't remember the name and don't want to open a new window)

 

"hooray the best throw away phrase in baseball discussion, "unproven players".

Explain why this is a "throw away" phrase. How is a player who has basically no MLB playing time or a player who has not done much with the MLB playing time that has been given to him not unproven? Not taking payroll into account, unless the unproven player is an elite prospect whos MLB arrival is highly anticipated (not just locally, but nationally), I will always prefer a proven MLB player over a unproven "prospect".

[fondybrewfan]

Even though Krod's decision was unexpected I am sure Melvin had a plan in place in case it did happen; after all that is what Mark A is paying him for. Who knows what the plan is. They could keep him, trade him, or cut him. Only the Brewers know what budget they are working with so I am just going to trsut DM that he prepared for this and he still has a solid plan to improve the glaring weaknesses at SS and 3B. It might take some time though.

 

Brewers could really screw over Krod if they cut him really close to the deadline during Spring Training and only pay him the $2 Million or so; he might be hard presses to find a decent paying job at that point and might have to wait until someone gets hurt.

[Patrick425]

the trade Axford idea shouldn't be dismissed....

 

1) there's a reason he wasn't a can't miss prospect who fast-tracked to the majors.....what if he's the next Peter Ladd?

 

I don't even know who Peter Ladd is

See 82 Post Season - Rollie Finger's injury.

[CheezWizHed]

Ok, options that have been discussed:

1) Arbitration gives KRod a 1yr $13M deal

2) Cut KRod and pay $2-3M

 

But what about

3) Sign him to a longer term deal (3/$27M) and trade him to a team that needs a closer.

 

Obviously, we would want to work out terms of the deal with the team that wants him. But if he accepts a lower yearly deal, he becomes far more trade-able.

[endaround]

Pretty sure you can't cut free agent eligible players. Their entire salary is guaranteed.

[Patrick425]

Pretty sure you can't cut free agent eligible players. Their entire salary is guaranteed.

Can anyone confirm this. This would seem to make some sense in that I have not heard the possibly of being able to drop K-Rod anywhere else but on this board.

 

[Glennron]

Question, to those who know more about Arbitration than me:

 

Doesn't him accepting to be a setup guy then pull him from the pool of closers and into the pool of setup guys, like Hawkins, and Saito.... where he should get paid a LOT less?

Why should he get "Closers money" if he AGREED to NOT be a closer?

Could the Brewers make that argument?

That's actually a really good question. Maybe K Rod will point to Rafael Soriano, who pretty much got $12-$13 million a year over three years to be a set up guy? Not sure how much weight that would hold though given it's the Yankees.

[StearnsFTW]

Pretty sure you can't cut free agent eligible players. Their entire salary is guaranteed.

Can anyone confirm this. This would seem to make some sense in that I have not heard the possibly of being able to drop K-Rod anywhere else but on this board.

My understanding is that if K-Rod doesn't make the team out of spring training, he can be cut for 1/6 of his salary. The Union would then file a grievance, which would have to be heard.

 

The Padres did this in 2006? with Todd Walker and were able to prove that Walker wasn't their best option (based on ST numbers), and won the grievance. It's the only case of its kind that I'm aware of.

 

http://riveraveblues.com/...ure-of-arbitration-7503/

 

Also not sure if the new CBA changes anything.

[yoshii8]

So what teams out there need a closer? I think the Brewers could potentially get a decent prospect for K-Rod to a team that would want him for one season. Don't the Red Sox need one?

[adambr2]

Not sure of the source, but this link says we can indeed release him before the season to save the money:

 

http://www.rantsports.com...uez-accepts-arbitration/

[Patrick425]

It seems like most sources that state that we can drop K-Rod for 1/6 his salary are leaving out the part in the link that cubsdie posted that states:

 

A Player whose Contract is terminated by a Club under paragraph 7(b)(2) of the Uniform Player’s Contract for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability

 

Not sure how the Brewers could prove KRod failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability regardless of how poorly he does in ST.

[StearnsFTW]

It seems like most sources that state that we can drop K-Rod for 1/6 his salary are leaving out the part in the link that cubsdie posted that states:

 

A Player whose Contract is terminated by a Club under paragraph 7(b)(2) of the Uniform Player’s Contract for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability

 

Not sure how the Brewers could prove KRod failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability regardless of how poorly he does in ST.

Right. That's the confusing part. It appears that the Padres were able to prove it by using ST numbers. I admit I don't fully understand it, I was just providing something I found about it this morning.

[monty57]

Why are people saying K-Rod will get $13-14 million via arby? I thought that, at this point of their career, the money is based upon production, etc. And if you look at comparables, Bell is getting $9 million, Papelbon is getting $12.5 million.

 

It seems to me K-Rod would get a salary closer to Bell's figure - maybe $10 million.

 

However, it seems like everyone believes he's going to get a raise. I didn't think it was this simple.

 

Any help on this one?

 

K-Rod made $13.5MM this year, and is now guaranteed at least 80% of that ($10.8MM) if the case goes to arbitration. Therefore, there isn't a reason Boras/K-Rod would accept anything less than a 1 year / $10.8MM deal. Of course, Boras will argue that he should get more than the minimum due, and most players actually get a pay raise in this situation, so the likely salary will be between $10.8MM and $14MM.

 

But what about

3) Sign him to a longer term deal (3/$27M) and trade him to a team that needs a closer.

 

That is also a possibility, but first K-Rod/Boras would have to agree to it (he'll potentially make half that money in one year, and he could be stuck as setup man for three years if not traded) and secondly the Brewers would be assuming risk. They may not be able to trade him, or he may get injured and the Brewers would be on the hook for $27MM. I would hope that if they did this, they would have a trade partner set up prior to signing the deal. If so, that may be a good plan, but it begs the question "If someone wanted him for 3 years/$27MM, why didn't they just offer it to him prior to him accepting arby?"

 

I doubt he is on our roster come opening day. Some team will need a closer come Spring Training. It seems to me that there is a free spending team with a new ugly logo that may have a need at closer. I know it is a long-shot, but what if we sent KRod and $ to Marlins for Anibal Sanchez, Bonafacio or Infante?

 

Heath Bell might be a little upset by this.

 

Why should he get "Closers money" if he AGREED to NOT be a closer?

 

Boras will argue that he is the all-time single season saves leader and is in the prime of his career. Plus, as stated above he's guaranteed a minimum of $10.8MM in arby.

 

endaround wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty sure you can't cut free agent eligible players. Their entire salary is guaranteed.

 

Can anyone confirm this. This would seem to make some sense in that I have not heard the possibly of being able to drop K-Rod anywhere else but on this board.

 

The announcers on MLBtv discussed this option. If they were correct, the Brewers could cut him early in ST and only pay 1/6 of his arby contract.

 

 

I think it comes down to this: If you thought the Brewers were going to land a big-money SS, or if you thought Aramis Ramirez was going to be a good solution, then you're probably pretty upset by this. If you wanted Gamel & Green to get a shot or if you expected us to end up with Yuni/Gonzalez at SS, then you're probably not as upset about this. It basically hampers our ability to spend money on a big contract this offseason, which may or may not be a good thing long-term.

[topper09er]

K-Rod as non-closer can be used whenever it makes the most sense.

Is this a joke? Unless we fire our manager this has no chance of happening.

[MJLiverock]

K-Rod accepting doesn't seem like such a bad thing for the Brewers. The team has the 8th and 9th taken care of and with the starters they have there shouldn't be a lot of 5 inning empty the pen games. It keeps them from spending $4-$5 Million on old reliever who can't pitch every day, or have numerous trips to the DL or unavailable list because of tweeked tendons, joints, hips, abs, and whatnot. Allows the team if not forces them to use some young cheap guys in the pen to see what they have rather than just write them off because they are young like a Kinzler. Probably means Parra, Rogers, Braddock, get a chance to come back from injury (see if they still have the nasty stuff and can harness it) and possibly even a Fiers or Peralta get some ML action.

 

I like the idea of Aram's bat, but his defense is no better than McGehee. I do think the team needs to add some offense somewhere to help offset the drop in production from Fielder to Gamel.

[TooLiveBrew]

So what teams out there need a closer? I think the Brewers could potentially get a decent prospect for K-Rod to a team that would want him for one season. Don't the Red Sox need one?

As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, the Sawx are a decent trade possibility for the Brewers. Not only that, but they have two shortstops that they may consider surplus (Lowrie, Scutaro). I hope Melvin is able to handle this situation smoothly & not clunk out another Hardy-Gomez deal.

[brewmann04]

Melvin better have a Plan D and E up his sleeve

[brewmann04]

I think this strengthes our Bullpen and gives us another Closer if something happens to AX. We have to hope the Pitching holds out guys.

But it does look like Yuni and Mcghee will be the answers at SS and 1st which Doug seemed ok with from the start .

[Baldkin]

K-Rod made $13.5MM this year, and is now guaranteed at least 80% of that ($10.8MM) if the case goes to arbitration. Therefore, there isn't a reason Boras/K-Rod would accept anything less than a 1 year / $10.8MM deal. Of course, Boras will argue that he should get more than the minimum due, and most players actually get a pay raise in this situation, so the likely salary will be between $10.8MM and $14MM.

 

Why should he get "Closers money" if he AGREED to NOT be a closer?

 

Boras will argue that he is the all-time single season saves leader and is in the prime of his career. Plus, as stated above he's guaranteed a minimum of $10.8MM in arby.

 

endaround wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty sure you can't cut free agent eligible players. Their entire salary is guaranteed.

 

Can anyone confirm this. This would seem to make some sense in that I have not heard the possibly of being able to drop K-Rod anywhere else but on this board.

 

The announcers on MLBtv discussed this option. If they were correct, the Brewers could cut him early in ST and only pay 1/6 of his arby contract.

Does anyone know where the 13.5M number came from? Cots says he made 11.5M. Unless for some reason half his buyout counted for the past season?

 

Arbitration contracts are different from FA contracts. Arby players can be cut for 1/6th (30 days) of their salary. K-Rod isn't signing a free agent deal, he's accepting salary arbitration.

[burnzy24]

Boras will argue that he is the all-time single season saves leader and is in the prime of his career. Plus, as stated above he's guaranteed a minimum of $10.8MM in arby.

Well Boras obviously couldn't make this argument to the half dozen or more teams that actaully needed a closer so why should he be successful at arbitration. If I'm K-Rod after I would have accepted arbitration and I would have fired Boras immediately for not doing his job. K-Rod is only 29 and one of the more successful closers in recent history, teams should have been throwing money at him. Now, if K-Rod stays with the Brewers, he will be a set up man. The only way K-Rod is going to get any big pay day is if he is closing, not setting up for Axford, and if teams didn't want to pay him what he thought he was worth this year they for sure won't next year if he hasn't been closing in a year and a half. If K-Rod was going to take any 1 year deal, it should have been in the Heath Bell range or less in a situation where he is guaranteed to be the closer. That way he can prove he can still close effectively and would be more likely to have next year's Angels or Marlins give him another long term deal. Boras is probably letting K-Rod take a few million more this year at the expense of many more millions over his next contract.