Brewers Offer Arby to Prince and Krod

[Patrick425]

Baldkin[/b]]Arbitration contracts are different from FA contracts. Arby players can be cut for 1/6th (30 days) of their salary. K-Rod isn't signing a free agent deal, he's accepting salary arbitration.

Yeah but if you go back and look at the link that cubsdie posted (post #212) you will see that the back in 2006 Todd Walker, who was a Type A free agent, was offered arby by San Diego. Like KRod, he tested the FA waters and didn't like what he found so he accepted arbitration. San Diego cut him in Spring Training. The union filed a grievence and only lost because SD was able to statistically prove that Walker failed “to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability.” I'm not sure how the Brewers could do that with K-Rod.

 

According to that article this is how the "non-guarantee" clause is written:

 

A Player whose Contract is terminated by a Club under paragraph 7(b)(2) of the Uniform Player’s Contract for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability shall be entitled to receive termination pay from the Club in an amount equal to thirty (30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2 of his Contract, if the termination occurs during spring training but on or before the 16th day prior to the start of the championship season. If the termination occurs during spring training, but subsequent to the 16th day prior to the start of the championship season, the Player’s termination pay shall be in an amount equal to forty-five (45) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2 of his Contract.

 

 

 

 

 

[monty57]

Well Boras obviously couldn't make this argument to the half dozen or more teams that actaully needed a closer so why should he be successful at arbitration.

 

Arbitration is different than an open negotiation. First, you're dealing with a panel of neutral judges, not a GM with a budget. Second, there are rules, one of which is that the minimum he can make should be $10.8MM (unless Baldkin is right in his prior post, but all I've heard is the $13.5MM number). Another is that arby is binding. Finally, they are obligated since they offered arby and he accepted. If it went to arby, the Brewers would make an offer and Boras/K-Rod would make an offer and the judges pick one. Since the Brewers and Boras know this, they will probably find common ground on a contract somewhere north of $10.8MM. It's not like the Brewers can say "Heath Bell is making $9MM, so that's what we'll sign you for." If they tried offering $9MM in arby, Boras would automatically win.

 

 

K-Rod is only 29 and one of the more successful closers in recent history, teams should have been throwing money at him...That way he can prove he can still close effectively and would be more likely to have next year's Angels or Marlins give him another long term deal.

 

You kind of disproved your own point. K-Rod is the all-time season saves leader. I don't think GM's will assume he's "forgotten how to save" due to the situation he was put in over the end of this season and this offseason. The market was soft for closers this offseason, so he took the option with by far the biggest payout. GM's will understand that.

 

Boras is probably letting K-Rod take a few million more this year at the expense of many more millions over his next contract.

 

That's very possible. Boras is known for thinking of his own wallet over that of his clients.

[Yeti73]

K-Rod of Kendrys? Jordan Walden isn't anything special.

[RockCoCougars]

Has Boras done anything this off season, or has it been a complete fail for him and his clients? Madson, K-Rod, etc. Things remain to be seen on Prince, but I haven't heard anything about any of his other clients (E. Jackson, etc.) getting paid.

[burnzy24]

Arbitration is different than an open negotiation.

 

Sorry my comment was more sarcastic than anything. It was more my commentary on how Boras epically failed K-Rod this offseason, I wasn't really trying to say that arbitration and free agency are similar.

You kind of disproved your own point. K-Rod is the all-time season saves leader. I don't think GM's will assume he's "forgotten how to save" due to the situation he was put in over the end of this season and this offseason. The market was soft for closers this offseason, so he took the option with by far the biggest payout. GM's will understand that.

 

GM's won't say he has forgotten how to save they will say "If he was

worth $12+ million then why didn't someone pay him last year and why did your client intentionally accept a non-closing position during an offseason where there were many teams in need of a closer?" I know Boras can be creative but he will have a hard time countering this argument Him

accepting arbitration is basically Boras admitting he was wrong in predicting K-Rod's value to other teams. I don't see how I disproved my own point by saying that adding another year of not saving for a club won't decrease his value, regardless of past success. This offseason Boras could have used the excuse that this last half year was an exceptional circumstance due to the fact the Brewers already had an effective closer on the club and didn't want to upset him during a deep playoff run. Boras can't use that excuse next year since he intentionally put his client back in that same position instead of finding him a closer position elsewhere. Every GM with a brain will have this as an advantage when negotiating with Boras next year.

[Roderick]

Boras is probably letting K-Rod take a few million more this year at the expense of many more millions over his next contract.

 

That's very possible. Boras is known for thinking of his own wallet over that of his clients.

I disagree with this costing KRod in the long run. This is logically the best way for KRod to maximize his salary over the long haul. Take the 2012 arby award that will only be an increase over his last year pay (when is the last time a arbitrator did not increase the pay after a good season). Then have a decent season and go for your long term contract after that.

 

The argument that was levied against that was "well KRod wants to go for the save stats". Well guess when push comes to shove we see where the priority is.

 

I don't blame Melvin for gambling, but he lost - now to focus on minimizing the damage.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I don't blame Melvin either. Everything is a calculated risk. He took a shot and lost, but while he's overpaying for KRod, it's only a one year deal and he's still a very good player. While I can't stand the tired old way that managers use their bullpens, having an "8th inning guy" helps Roenicke-proof the bullpen.

 

There's an oversupply of closers and a shortage of shortstops...that's what is hurting us.

[PrinceFielderx1]

 

Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said the Brewers still have
the payroll flexibility to fill their various needs, even with Francisco
Rodriguez locked into a big salary after he accepted arbitration
Wednesday night. The first order of business: Sign a shortstop.

“We hope early next week there’s a chance we may be able to zero in,” Melvin said.

“We’re OK,” Melvin said. “I talked to Mark [Attanasio, Milwaukee's principal owner].”

 

link

Sounds like the Brewers still have room in budget for a SS or 3B man or both.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Melvin said no teams had contacted him about K-Rod, trade and #[/s]Brewers like idea of having him back. Free agency seems likely route for SS. Per McCalvy twitter.

[MessiahRp]

It'd still be nice if the crew could retain Saito to bolster the pen just a little bit more. I don't know about anyone here but the idea of spending a decent chunk of money over 4 years for Aramis Ramirez sounds terrifying. Years 3-4 of that deal seem like they won't be very beneficial.

 

Sounded like Carlos Beltran's price may be lower than he thought. What about the Brewers signing Beltran and sliding Hart to 1B? Is Gamel completely done as a potential 3B if McGehee falters again?

[Baldkin]

It'd still be nice if the crew could retain Saito to bolster the pen just a little bit more. I don't know about anyone here but the idea of spending a decent chunk of money over 4 years for Aramis Ramirez sounds terrifying. Years 3-4 of that deal seem like they won't be very beneficial.

 

Sounded like Carlos Beltran's price may be lower than he thought. What about the Brewers signing Beltran and sliding Hart to 1B? Is Gamel completely done as a potential 3B if McGehee falters again?

They'd be better sliding Beltran to 1B (to save his legs) than Hart. Gamel is done at 3B. Green is the backup if McGehee fails.

[Hate those Rodents]

Unless The Angels are moving Trumbo to third, my guess is any More deal to them in a Morales trade would require us giving them a 3b option. So one of Gamel/Green/McGehee would have to be a part of the trade. This is just conjecture though, after reading that they were one of the teams very interested in Aram.

[Thurston Fluff]

Has Boras done anything this off season, or has it been a complete fail for him and his clients?

 

I read a few comments from Melvin about how he isn't going to offer Prince an deal because Boras would use it to shop around for a better deal. I have to wonder if maybe more GM's aren't starting to figure out the Boras strategy and acting accordingly.

[monty57]

Arbitration is different than an open negotiation.

 

Sorry my comment was more sarcastic than anything. It was more my commentary on how Boras epically failed K-Rod this offseason, I wasn't really trying to say that arbitration and free agency are similar.

You kind of disproved your own point. K-Rod is the all-time season saves leader. I don't think GM's will assume he's "forgotten how to save" due to the situation he was put in over the end of this season and this offseason. The market was soft for closers this offseason, so he took the option with by far the biggest payout. GM's will understand that.

 

GM's won't say he has forgotten how to save they will say "If he was

worth $12+ million then why didn't someone pay him last year and why did your client intentionally accept a non-closing position during an offseason where there were many teams in need of a closer?" I know Boras can be creative but he will have a hard time countering this argument Him

accepting arbitration is basically Boras admitting he was wrong in predicting K-Rod's value to other teams. I don't see how I disproved my own point by saying that adding another year of not saving for a club won't decrease his value, regardless of past success. This offseason Boras could have used the excuse that this last half year was an exceptional circumstance due to the fact the Brewers already had an effective closer on the club and didn't want to upset him during a deep playoff run. Boras can't use that excuse next year since he intentionally put his client back in that same position instead of finding him a closer position elsewhere. Every GM with a brain will have this as an advantage when negotiating with Boras next year.

All they have to do is say that the money they're getting in arbitration was quite a bit more than any closer received, and a reasonable GM should be able to understand why a player would take a 1 year $14MM contract over a 3 year / $27MM contract, even if it means pitching in the 8th rather than the 9th. What I meant by "disproving your own point" is that you agreed that K-Rod is one of the most successful closers in history and will only be 30 next offseason (still in his prime), so how would a reasonable GM suddenly feel that he can no longer work the 9th inning just because he opted to take a gaudy arbitration contract over a lower free agent closer contract when the market for closers is down this offseason due to an oversupply of free agent closers?

[gregmag]

http://brewersbeat.mlblog...-move-fast-at-shortstop/

 

Doug says he wants to zero in on a ss. Candidates are Yuni, Gonzalez, and Furcal. Not ruling out any free agent; says Mark A. is on board with . . . something.

 

I don't know whether DM is just covering himself here because he's surprised about Rodriguez or whether he really is this calm about the whole thing.

 

Furcal sounds like a 2-year commitment. I wouldn't mind seeing the team pony up for him, within reason, but we'll need a Hairston type who can take over the position for a month if needed. In general, I'm starting to fixate on the backup infielders issue.

[fondybrewfan]

I guess if we can afford Krod while also fixing SS and 3B; more power to em. I am just skeptical. But then again would starting Taylor Green at 3B be the worst thing in the world? He can be our David Freese.

[Mr QL]

bleh, go get Furcal. I'm going puke if Yuni is our starting SS again.

[monty57]

Of Yuni, Gonzalez and Furcal, I'd certainly like Furcal, but my guess is now that Pujols is gone, St. Louis will focus there attention on signing Furcal and outbid any and all suitors for him. I'm pretty much resigned to the belief that Yuni will be back, and am holding out hope that we'll get Gonzalez instead. We're going to be a pitching-centric team next year, and that doesn't work with a bunch of horrible defenders.

[Nader Raider Tim]

For me I hope that the Brewers have the SS pool rated as follows, when factoring in likely salary; Alex Gonzalez, Rafael Furcal, Anyone but Yuni, Petitioning the league to let them play without a SS and finally bringing Yuni back.

 

Alex Gonzalez is Yuni bad with the bat, that I don't argue with at all. He is however a very very nice player with the glove. I may not be enthralled with giving him 2 years 7 million which is probably around what it would cost to sign him, but that is the going rate for pretty decent middle infield options. He is cheaper than Furcal and with a healthier track record. The Brewers need to be pinching pennies, IMO, with K-Rod excepting arbitration now. If the Brewers sign Furcal for the minimum he would probably concievable sign for 2 years 18 million, they still need to factor in his fragile health and sign a medium to high end backup which would probably tack on another 2 million.

 

Furcal might have been the best choice when the flexibility was there to sign Furcal and a player like Jerry Hairston who could take over when Furcal gets banged up. Now the Brewers are in a position where signing Alex Gonzalez would hopefully still enable them to have enough money to still keep Saito.

[endaround]

If you sign Furcal you probably had to sign Gonzalez anyway since Furcal can easily miss half his contract (people talk about the injury risk with Reyes..). And Furcal was terrible last year so his future productivity isn't assured.

[hyerbro1]

monty57 wrote:

---

K-Rod made $13.5MM this year, and is now guaranteed at least 80% of that ($10.8MM) if the case goes to arbitration. Therefore, there isn't a reason Boras/K-Rod would accept anything less than a 1 year / $10.8MM deal. Of course, Boras will argue that he should get more than the minimum due, and most players actually get a pay raise in this situation, so the likely salary will be between $10.8MM and $14MM.

The 80% rule does not apply in this situation. Brewers can submit any number they want for the arbitration hearing. The arbirtrator just has to pick one side or the other. The 80% rule (and 70% rule) only apply for players in the "indentured servant" years.

[jerichoholicninja]

The Brewers really need to point out his decline in saves the last two years. Let's see how Boras can spin his way out of that.

[The Truth]

Is it out of the realm of possibilities for the Arbitrator to view K-Rod as an 8th inning set-up man and not a closer? K-Rod was an 8th inning set-up man for Milwaukee last season and by accepting Arbitration he is agreeing to that position again for 2012. Why should he be viewed and slotted as a closer when he's essentially agreeing here to be a set-up man?

[monty57]

monty57 wrote:

---

K-Rod made $13.5MM this year, and is now guaranteed at least 80% of that ($10.8MM) if the case goes to arbitration. Therefore, there isn't a reason Boras/K-Rod would accept anything less than a 1 year / $10.8MM deal. Of course, Boras will argue that he should get more than the minimum due, and most players actually get a pay raise in this situation, so the likely salary will be between $10.8MM and $14MM.

The 80% rule does not apply in this situation. Brewers can submit any number they want for the arbitration hearing. The arbirtrator just has to pick one side or the other. The 80% rule (and 70% rule) only apply for players in the "indentured servant" years.

Are you sure about this? I've seen written and heard on MLBtv that the 80% rule does apply. I don't trust everything I see or hear, but I've seen it in enough places that I think it's true.

 

 

[logan82]

Per Cot's

 

The club's salary offer to a player under

its control (pre-free agency players) may not be less than 80% of the

player's salary and performance bonuses the previous year or less than

70% of his salary and performance bonuses from 2 years earlier.

(Exception: If a player won an arbitration award the previous year

increasing his salary 50% or more, the 80% requirement does not apply.)

The 80% rule does not apply to free agents who are offered arbitration.