Astros to AL in 2013: It's official

[pretendastronaut]

According to Jon Heyman

 

Prospective astros owner Jim crane has agreed to go to AL in 2013. He gets about $50M discount to go. He still needs vote of owners

 

One ML owner: crane started to look like good guy when he ponied up $600M, looked like great guy when he agreed to go to AL.

[CheezWizHed]

Selig will not look good through this. Moving the Brewers to the NL and then someone else out smacks of favoritism, which is a bad thing for the Commish.

 

Granted, I prefer the NL myself...

 

Although, the Astros won't have to trade El Caballo now... They can continue paying $18M/yr for a .750 DH.

[reillymcshane]

Although, the Astros won't have to trade El Caballo now... They can continue paying $18M/yr for a .750 DH.

If I'm correct, Carlos' contract will be done by after next season - so he doesn't get to DH next year.

 

That's a gain for the Crew.

[Invader3K]

Selig will not look good through this. Moving the Brewers to the NL and then someone else out smacks of favoritism, which is a bad thing for the Commish.

Seeing that the Brewers changed leagues about 15 years ago, I think any correlation at this point is pretty spurious.

 

I don't see any more sensible option to ending the stupid "six teams in one division" situation we have now.

[sbrylski]

Selig will not look good through this. Moving the Brewers to the NL and then someone else out smacks of favoritism, which is a bad thing for the Commish.

Seeing that the Brewers changed leagues about 15 years ago, I think any correlation at this point is pretty spurious.

 

I don't see any more sensible option to ending the stupid "six teams in one division" situation we have now.

Not to mention, he offered the Royals the chance to move the NL first and they declined.

[patrickgpe]

i don't see it as favoritism, just a re-evaluation, of what is fair. I think it seems fine in 98 to have an even amount of teams in both leagues. Now 14 years later, mlb has seen that it is really a competitive advantage for teams in the al west to only have 4 teams over the nl central with 6. Selig was trying to implement the unbalanced schedule, which is now going to be harder with interleague games every day.

[Oldcity]

Realistically, this is probably a good thing from the Brewers' perspective. They get a doormat in the division one more year, and long-term, they only have to beat out four teams to win the division instead of five.

[PKBadger]

I really hope they expand interleague play. Play every team in the other league (home OR away) for one series = 45 games.

 

Baseball is in a good spot, but they need to market the sport better to kids in order to sustain it. Part of that would be knowing that their Brewers would be playing the likes of Felix Hernandez, Evan Longoria, et al every year, and playing them at Miller Park at least once every two years.

[Polish Falcons]

I really hope they expand interleague play. Play every team in the other league (home OR away) for one series = 45 games.

 

Baseball is in a good spot, but they need to market the sport better to kids in order to sustain it. Part of that would be knowing that their Brewers would be playing the likes of Felix Hernandez, Evan Longoria, et al every year, and playing them at Miller Park at least once every two years.

This is an interesting idea KegStand. I like the idea that they would create a more balanced schedule, and you would get to see AL teams come through town on a more regular and predictable basis. For example, I live in New York and this was the first year that the Brewers came to play at Yankee Stadium since Interleague began in 1997. I don't get how it works out that way. Seems like the scheduling of interleague is just totally random and they need to change that. I also don't like how the Brewers can play the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays one year while the Cards could play the Blue Jays, Orioles, and Rays. It's not really fair Also the whole rivalry thing, where you play one designated rival twice, is kind of silly apart from a few matchups across the league.

 

However, in my opinion your proposal includes too many interleague games. We would be jumping from 18 to 45 interleague games in one year. That would have a pretty big impact on the amount of times we play NL games in and out of division. How about this for an alternative idea: Every year we play one three game series against all teams from two of the three AL divisions. It would rotate every year. So in 2013 the Brewers would play the AL East & Central. In 2014 they'd play the AL Central & West. In 2015 the AL West & East. You would play every team two times in three years, once at home and once away. The scheduling breakout could go as follows:

30 Interleague games

60 NL non-division games (one home & away three game series against each AL East/West team.)

72 NL division games (18 games against each divisional rival)

Every team in the division would have the exact same schedule, the only difference is there would some variation in home/away vs AL teams and possibly home/away vs certain teams within the division too (based on a need to schedule 4 game series').

I don't think they'd ever do something like this (balance the schedule) because a few of the interleague series (Yankees/Mets, Cubs/White Sox, Angels/Dodgers) probably generate a good deal of revenue that they wouldn't want to take away.

[CheezWizHed]

Seeing that the Brewers changed leagues about 15 years ago, I think any correlation at this point is pretty spurious.

 

I'm not sure if its fair or not, but you will hear it. He created the imbalance... now he is undoing it.

 

If I'm correct, Carlos' contract will be done by after next season - so he doesn't get to DH next year.

 

Why must you spoil my fun with the facts? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ennder]

I don't see how moving a team to the NL can look like favoritism, I'd think more teams would want to move tot he AL than stay in the NL. Hopefully a couple high profile pitchers will get hurt while batting and they'll finally add the DH to both leagues so we don't have to watch pitchers pretend that anyone can hit major league pitching when they only get to bat once every 5 days.

[1992casey]

A problem that's existed since 1994 is that the Texas Rangers have played in a division where all of the other teams are two time zones away. Moving the Astros would help them out a bit.

[CheezWizHed]

Moving the Brewers to the NL:

1) Boosted attendance at a time the product on the field stunk.

2) Allows the team to have a lower payroll. No full time DH to pay for, which is generally more costly than a bench player or BP guy.

3) It was no secret that Selig wanted an NL team in Milwaukee since the Braves left.

 

Again, I'm not complaining about the move. I prefer the Brewers in the NL actually (and all divisions should be equal to be fair). I can see some people in the media bringing it up, however. That is all I'm saying.

 

I was trying to figure out if the Astros/Ranger rivalry would be good or bad. I would imagine many people in Texas to cheer for both (one NL, one AL). But now the becomes more difficult. The Brewers vs. Cubs/Cardinals/Twins are pretty natural rivalries based on state lines. But Texans are pretty loyal to Texas.

[monty57]

No one cares if the Packers play the Chargers on opening day. No one cares if the Bucks play the Lakers. Other than the DH, why does it matter if NL teams play against AL teams on a regular basis?

[RockCoCougars]

Realistically, this is probably a good thing from the Brewers' perspective. They get a doormat in the division one more year, and long-term, they only have to beat out four teams to win the division instead of five.

Obviously Selig is doing this to benefit his team. He's keeping the bad team in the division for another year, and then when they start to improve he moves them to the other league....

 

I was playing the role of uninformed baseball conspiracy guy above. I'd be willing to bet that there are similar posts around the net. As for me, I wish the Brewers would have stayed in the A.L.. I grew up with A.L. ball, and they moved from one of the crappiest divisions in baseball to one of the best.

[jeffy]

i don't see it as favoritism, just a re-evaluation, of what is fair. I think it seems fine in 98 to have an even amount of teams in both leagues. Now 14 years later, mlb has seen that it is really a competitive advantage for teams in the al west to only have 4 teams over the nl central with 6. Selig was trying to implement the unbalanced schedule, which is now going to be harder with interleague games every day.

 

 

In 1998 was it not known that 6>4???

 

The big "problem" was interleague play throughout the season. The main reason that is a problem is the DH rule.

 

Scheduling, unbalanced or not, is a lot easier with the same number of teams in each division, with or without interleague play. An equal number of teams in each league also makes interleague scheduling easier. The schedule became a mess only when they came up with the foolish idea of 6 teams in one division, 4 in another,14 teams in one league, and 16 teams in the other.

 

I'm glad that things went the way they did as I hate the DH, but I think it was obvious in 1998 that the problems that would be created by unequal divisions and leagues were greater than the problems that would be created by interleague throughout the season.

 

I'm sure NL fans in Houston will be saying: "Why don't the Brewers just go back to the AL?".

[Raw Biz]

I really hope they expand interleague play. Play every team in the other league (home OR away) for one series = 45 games.

 

Baseball is in a good spot, but they need to market the sport better to kids in order to sustain it. Part of that would be knowing that their Brewers would be playing the likes of Felix Hernandez, Evan Longoria, et al every year, and playing them at Miller Park at least once every two years.

This is an interesting idea KegStand. I like the idea that they would create a more balanced schedule, and you would get to see AL teams come through town on a more regular and predictable basis. For example, I live in New York and this was the first year that the Brewers came to play at Yankee Stadium since Interleague began in 1997. I don't get how it works out that way. Seems like the scheduling of interleague is just totally random and they need to change that. I also don't like how the Brewers can play the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays one year while the Cards could play the Blue Jays, Orioles, and Rays. It's not really fair Also the whole rivalry thing, where you play one designated rival twice, is kind of silly apart from a few matchups across the league.

 

However, in my opinion your proposal includes too many interleague games. We would be jumping from 18 to 45 interleague games in one year. That would have a pretty big impact on the amount of times we play NL games in and out of division. How about this for an alternative idea: Every year we play one three game series against all teams from two of the three AL divisions. It would rotate every year. So in 2013 the Brewers would play the AL East & Central. In 2014 they'd play the AL Central & West. In 2015 the AL West & East. You would play every team two times in three years, once at home and once away. The scheduling breakout could go as follows:

30 Interleague games

60 NL non-division games (one home & away three game series against each AL East/West team.)

72 NL division games (18 games against each divisional rival)

Every team in the division would have the exact same schedule, the only difference is there would some variation in home/away vs AL teams and possibly home/away vs certain teams within the division too (based on a need to schedule 4 game series').

I don't think they'd ever do something like this (balance the schedule) because a few of the interleague series (Yankees/Mets, Cubs/White Sox, Angels/Dodgers) probably generate a good deal of revenue that they wouldn't want to take away.

I'm pretty sure this is what they are discussing, except every division would play its counterpart every year. So the NL Central would play every team in the AL Central once every year and then they would rotate against the AL East/West every other year.

[PKBadger]

No one cares if the Packers play the Chargers on opening day. No one cares if the Bucks play the Lakers. Other than the DH, why does it matter if NL teams play against AL teams on a regular basis?

I was luck enough to have tickets behind the Lakers bench during a Bucks-Lakers game during the Kobe-Shaq era.

 

1) It was awesome....you don't realize how enormous Shaq is until you're 10 feet away from him. Basketball is a different environment, but I wouldn't want to deprive a young fan of seeing these superstars.

 

2) I guarantee that the Bucks sold more tickets for that game than they did playing "conference foes" like Atlanta, Toronto and Cleveland (this was pre-LeBron).

[monty57]

No one cares if the Packers play the Chargers on opening day. No one cares if the Bucks play the Lakers. Other than the DH, why does it matter if NL teams play against AL teams on a regular basis?

I was luck enough to have tickets behind the Lakers bench during a Bucks-Lakers game during the Kobe-Shaq era.

 

1) It was awesome....you don't realize how enormous Shaq is until you're 10 feet away from him. Basketball is a different environment, but I wouldn't want to deprive a young fan of seeing these superstars.

 

2) I guarantee that the Bucks sold more tickets for that game than they did playing "conference foes" like Atlanta, Toronto and Cleveland (this was pre-LeBron).

 

I agree. In other major sports, it's taken for granted that teams will play interleague games all the time. For some reason, people think that an NL team playing an AL team early or late in the season will be a huge disruption. They need to figure out what they're going to do with the DH, but other than that, who cares if the Brewers are playing the Braves or if the Brewers are playing the Orioles? I generally only watch Brewer games, so I barely know the players in the AL. It would be fun to see them play more teams.

 

I used to argue for the DH when the Brewers were in the AL and that's what I was used to watching. Now I'm used to watching NL ball, and I like the pitcher hitting. I'm sure that if they decide one way or the other (for or against the DH for all teams), the world will continue to spin and life will go on. If I had to bet, I'd say the DH would win out, as the Players Union wouldn't allow it to go away. It would take me a while to get back used to seeing a DH in the lineup, but I'd still cheer for the Brewers, DH and all.

[Polish Falcons]

I'm pretty sure this is what they are discussing, except every division would play its counterpart every year. So the NL Central would play every team in the AL Central once every year and then they would rotate against the AL East/West every other year.

Good to know. Thanks for the info. This is a better plan than the idea I dreamt up (which I thought was more original) in response to kegstand, because it preserves the few rivalries that exist (NY, CHI, "LA") while still giving Brewer fans a chance to see the Yankees, Red Sox, or whichever AL teams they want and on a more regular/predictable basis, while also balancing the schedule more fairly. I like it.

 

Monty57, I think there are a good amount of people who care about a chance to see some AL teams. Sure, most NL fans won't care to see teams like the Royals, Orioles, or A's. But there are a good deal of people who will want a chance to see teams like the Yankees, Rays, Rangers. I'd also be excited to see a team like the Blue Jays, as opposed to another game against the Pirates. People will also like a chance to see individual all star players like Justin Verlander or Felix Hernandez pitch. I can understand opposition to interleague based on tradition, or not wanting to mix the DH, or stuff like that, but to say people don't care really isn't true. The proof is in the attendance numbers. Various reports I've seen say that attendance is 12% to almost 18% higher during interleague play than regular season. For this reason, I don't think interleague play will ever go away. The best thing that MLB could do is think of ways to make the schedule better and add more balance. I do hope they don't get carried away with too much interleague.

[monty57]

Monty57, I think there are a good amount of people who care about a chance to see some AL teams.

 

I think I have been misunderstood. By "no one cares if..." I mean it's taken for granted in other sports that interleague play happens, and no one is opposed to it. When the Packers play the Chargers, we don't see a bunch of "traditionalists" screaming that the Packers should only play other NFC teams. For some reason, there is opposition when it comes to baseball, as if somehow baseball is tainted if an NL team plays an AL team at any point other than the World Series. I'm all for much more interleague play, and think baseball and the fans will benefit from it.

[jeffy]

I'm pretty sure this is what they are discussing, except every division would play its counterpart every year. So the NL Central would play every team in the AL Central once every year and then they would rotate against the AL East/West every other year.

 

I don't think that is quite the plan. I think what I recall seeing is that they are planning to keep the number of interleague games about the same as now (15-18) and that they would do that by playing the 5 teams in one division of the other league, plus 3 against the "natural rival". So the Brewers would play each division once every 3 years and the Twins every year. I think it may have been that in the years that they play the AL Central they would play 6 against the Twins, instead of 3.

[bjkrautk]

My apologies if this has already been pointed out, but would a 15 AL / 15 NL split virtually guaranty that there would be an interleague play series at all times during the season? I seem to recall one of the logical arguments for the Brewers moving to the NL being that MLB wanted an even number of teams in each league.

 

 

One of the aspects that makes interleague play feasible is that - since it only happens during part of the season - a team can make roster moves for a week or two. Perpetual interleague play is going to force teams to churn through a couple of players if they want to add an extra hitter (in AL parks) or an extra pitcher (in the NL). Since, if memory serves, there is still a minimum amount of time between demotion and call-up, you can't bring back the same player you sent down after a 3-game series (barring an injury).

 

 

Outside of that, I can't say that the Astros moving bothers me all that much. In the short run, the Brewers did very well against Houston....but that could change in the long run with a new ownership group (something Brewers fans can certainly appreciate).

[Baldkin]

So, suddenly they are looking at 45 interleague games, meaning 21 or 24 games with the DH every season, spread further apart, up from the current 9?

 

That just gives a horrible advantage to the American league teams.

[owbc]

I think one of the main reasons they went with 16/14 in 1998 was because there was going to be little support for a 15/15 split. There is a big difference between a few interleague series in the summer and constant interleague like with the new plan. Also, MLB was still in the expansion era back then, I don't think anyone thought that the 16/14 would last 15 years, but the 2 additional expansion teams never came along and they certainly will not any time in the near future.

 

I can't make up my mind on the new rules until I see what the exact schedule will be. I do not see how you get 45 interleague games, shouldn't it be 30 since they are only playing 2 divisions (10*3)? For teams in the NL Central, the new games will simply replace the ones that they had with the Astros.

 

By the way, I would be horrified if I was an Astros fan. They are going to have way too many 9 PM CDT starts. There definitely will need to be more reform at some point. Colorado, Houston, Arizona, Texas, and San Diego should be in one West Division, with the LA teams, San Francisco, Oakland, and Seattle in the other division. But since nobody will volunteer to change leagues because of the DH and one west coast team has to get left out, it will never happen.