Jamey Carroll to unknown? [Latest: Confirmed to Twins, 2yrs/7M]

[DHonks]

mlbtraderumors says Carroll is about to sign a multiyear deal with an unknown team. Any chance we could be the unknown team? It wouldn't mind it if we signed him or re-signed Scutaro. Throw in resigning Hairston, and we'd have much better infield defense and OBP.

[nate82]

Jamey Carrol is old and I would want no part of Carrol on the Brewers.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm sweating this one out a little because Melvin sometimes moves quickly in FA. I just don't get the fascination with this guy.

[reillymcshane]

I'm sweating this one out a little because Melvin sometimes moves quickly in FA. I just don't get the fascination with this guy.

He gets on base. He's versatile. Those are some nice traits, even if he is lacking in other areas (such as power).

[yoshii8]

I'm sweating this one out a little because Melvin sometimes moves quickly in FA. I just don't get the fascination with this guy.

I'm guessing it's because his career .356 OBP, and his ability to play 2b, SS, 3b, OF all pretty well. He doesn't offer power, but seems to still have plenty to offer. I don't get why you wouldn't want him.

[reillymcshane]

I'm sweating this one out a little because Melvin sometimes moves quickly in FA. I just don't get the fascination with this guy.

I'm guessing it's because his career .356 OBP, and his ability to play 2b, SS, 3b, OF all pretty well. He doesn't offer power, but seems to still have plenty to offer. I don't get why you wouldn't want him.

I wouldn't mind Carroll for all the reasons you cited. But I would have liked them to go after Hairston first. I'm concerned about Carroll's age (38 in Feb), and like Hairston better as a defender. Still, Carroll would be okay to have.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm sweating this one out a little because Melvin sometimes moves quickly in FA. I just don't get the fascination with this guy.

I'm guessing it's because his career .356 OBP, and his ability to play 2b, SS, 3b, OF all pretty well. He doesn't offer power, but seems to still have plenty to offer. I don't get why you wouldn't want him.

He can't hit with RISP. I don't buy that the OBP is sustainable as he gets closer to 40 either. He had only 20 EBH in over 500 plate appearances last year- he's strictly a singles hitter and he's never had a OBP above league average as a regular. What is there to like?

[monty57]

he's never had a OBP above league average as a regular

 

Please clarify. He's got a career OBP of .356, and I can't imagine his PAs as a bench player would outweigh his PAs as a "regular."

 

I really liked Carroll as a target at trade deadline this season. For the right price, he'd ba a good addition to the team, but we'd need to make sure to sign a good backup who could cover 50-60 games at SS. I guess if we got him & Hairston, they could combine to cover SS and back up 2B/3B. I doubt either of them could be counted on to play everyday anymore. Putting him with Morgan in the 1/2 holes would allow Hart/Braun/Weeks to cover the 3-4-5 spots with some runners on base in front of them, and allow Green and Gamel to "get their feet wet" in the bottom of the order. Most SS can't get on base, so Carroll would be one of the few who could legitimately be a top of the order guy.

 

FWIW he made $2.285MM this year, so we could probably sign Hariston and Carroll for less than the price of Barmes, giving us plenty of money to use elsewhere.

 

I just don't get the fascination with this guy.

 

Decent defense and can get on base, but doesn't have any power... he's the anti-Yuni and will therefore be loved by most on this board :-)

[yoshii8]

So he had a .359 OBP last season w/ over 500 PA's, and a .379 OBP the year before in over 400 PA's, but you don't think it's sustainable as a regular? We have plenty of guys that can get XBH, Jamey Carroll also has batted over .290 the last 2 , is a solid defender and baserunner and is not going to break the bank.

[RockCoCougars]

Please clarify. He's got a career OBP of .356, and I can't imagine his PAs as a bench player would outweigh his PAs as a "regular."

 

Sorry, I meant OPS+.

[monty57]

Please clarify. He's got a career OBP of .356, and I can't imagine his PAs as a bench player would outweigh his PAs as a "regular."

 

Sorry, I meant OPS+.

 

That makes more sense. He definitely doesn't have any power, but as a 1/2 hitter along with Morgan I really like that OBP. Hart, Weeks and Braun will get plenty of extra base hits to knock those base runners in. Without Fielder, I really want to find a SS who can bat in the top of the order so that Weeks and Hart can both hit in the middle of the order. Carroll is one of the few options we could get who could do that. Reyes will probably be a Marlin, Rollins will probably be a Phillie, and Carroll fits the role of 1/2 hitter better than Barmes.

 

I wouldn't object to signing Barmes, but if we could have Carroll and Hairston for less than Barmes, it would probably be a better option. That, of course, is assuming that the Brewers feel Hariston can play SS enough to cover the 50 or 60 games Carroll will need off.

[dadofandrew]

He's a solid middle infielder who gets on base. Love to have him, but 2 of 3 teams are Jays and Twins, so unlikely.

[dadofandrew]

The Twins win, everyday SS. Terry Ryan strikes again, ignores Gardy's "SS has to be fast" mantra, immediately improves horrible offense.

[reillymcshane]

2 years, $7 million.

 

I was hoping he wouldn't get that much. He's getting older (38 in feb), but his skill set should maintain well enough. 2 years is a bit tough at that age.

[nate82]

The Twins win, everyday SS. Terry Ryan strikes again, ignores Gardy's "SS has to be fast" mantra, immediately improves horrible offense.

I'll mark this as a win for the Brewers and a stupid move by the Twins. Offensively he maybe better than what they had last year but this would be like the Brewers having Counsell play SS on an everyday basis two years ago. Horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible move by the Twins. Carroll will probably won't even make it through half of the season without spending at least half of it on the DL with some kind of injury the Twins needed to get players who could stay healthy for the whole season not more DL bound players.

[monty57]

The Twins win, everyday SS. Terry Ryan strikes again, ignores Gardy's "SS has to be fast" mantra, immediately improves horrible offense.

I'll mark this as a win for the Brewers and a stupid move by the Twins. Offensively he maybe better than what they had last year but this would be like the Brewers having Counsell play SS on an everyday basis two years ago. Horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible move by the Twins. Carroll will probably won't even make it through half of the season without spending at least half of it on the DL with some kind of injury the Twins needed to get players who could stay healthy for the whole season not more DL bound players.

I'll reserve judgement until I see what the Brewers end up doing at SS.

 

 

[DHonks]

good move for the Twins. He's not expensive. I'm not a huge fan, but besides Reyes, Rollins, and Furcal, this crop is unexciting. Only Carroll and Scutaro could be genuine upgrades. Barmes solves one problem but creates another

[RockCoCougars]

Barmes will be demanding 3 years/$15 million now. If that's the case, I hope the Brewers stay away. This just confirms that the Orioles got an absolute steal with Hardy.

[MNBrew]

Barmes is a FAR inferior offensive player, even though he's strong on the D side, so I don't get how anyone including himself could see him as worth $1.5M more per year than Carroll. Yes, Carroll's older, but if their offense over the life of their new contracts (2 years for Carroll, TBA for Barmes) mirrors their past 2 years, Carroll's a far better value.

 

I find it ironic that Yuni's terrible OBP inspired so much loathing but some of those same haters diminished the value of his power, yet Carroll's got the great OBP Yuni seemingly may never have but now some are saying he's a lousy investment, presumably because he has no power? I'd take the solid OBP, frankly. It takes a mix of skills at the plate, a variety of types of hitters, to make for a well-balanced offense. Not everyone will be a power hitter.

 

Carroll's BA, OBP, & defense should all be major upgrades over what the Twins trotted out at SS last year -- and the $3.5M he'll make per year he'll make is $500K/yr. less than Punto made on his last Twins contract (2 yrs., $8M) to be what amounted to role-playing super-utility guy. Assuming Carroll can at least maintain most of what he's done the past few years, I can't see how anyone would consider that a foolish deal.

[RockCoCougars]

I find it ironic that Yuni's terrible OBP inspired so much loathing but some of those same haters diminished the value of his power, yet Carroll's got the great OBP Yuni seemingly may never have but now some are saying he's a lousy investment, presumably because he has no power? I'd take the solid OBP, frankly.

 

Not saying much, but if it came down to Yuni or Carroll, I'm taking Yuni. I just don't see how Carroll is an everyday player at SS at this point in his career.

 

Barmes is a FAR inferior offensive player, even though he's strong on the D side, so I don't get how anyone including himself could see him as worth $1.5M more per year than Carroll.

 

Barmes is probably one of the best defensive SS in the N.L. from what I've seen. He'll get paid based on that alone. If Carroll can get 2 years, I have no doubt that Barmes will get 3.

[Dollarbill13]

I just don't see how Carroll is an everyday player at SS at this point in his career.

 

He showed that he could be an every day player last year... and with his deal, you are only risking 4% of your payroll in doing so. To be honest, I just don't see how Yuni is an everyday player at SS at this point in his career, either. And he's in the middle of his prime.

[JohnBriggs12]

I just don't see how Carroll is an everyday player at SS at this point in his career.

 

He showed that he could be an every day player last year... and with his deal, you are only risking 4% of your payroll in doing so. To be honest, I just don't see how Yuni is an everyday player at SS at this point in his career, either. And he's in the middle of his prime.

His 146 games played last year is deceiving. He only started 111. That's not an everyday player. At 38, at best he's a 4 day a week player. Had the Brewers got him, they'd need a Hairston type to split time with him. I suspect the Twins will too. $3.5 million per year isn't outrageous, but does push up the market for true everyday players at that position. Yuni was the everyday SS on a 96 win team. He was 2nd among NL SS in RBI. From the All Star break through the postseason, he hit .276 and slugged .430. He's never been hurt. I'd take him over Carroll.

 

[Dollarbill13]

His 146 games played last year is deceiving. He only started 111. That's not an everyday player. At 38, at best he's a 4 day a week player. Had the Brewers got him, they'd need a Hairston type to split time with him. I suspect the Twins will too. $3.5 million per year isn't outrageous, but does push up the market for true everyday players at that position. Yuni was the everyday SS on a 96 win team. He was 2nd among NL SS in RBI. From the All Star break through the postseason, he hit .276 and slugged .430. He's never been hurt. I'd take him over Carroll.

He was an everyday player for a good portion of the season when Furcal was hurt. Carroll has only been on the DL once in his career and it was after he got hit in the hand by a pitch. Not exactly what I'd call injury prone. You are citing a bunch of stats with Yuni that are irrelevant. Yes, he was the everyday SS on a 96 win team. Casey McGehee was the everyday 3B, what's your point? RBI are heavily dependent on the lineup you are in, namely hitting in a lineup with Prince Fielder. He wasn't a good hitter with RISP or with runners on base. He does have good power for a SS but that is heavily negated by his awful OBP. Even in the 2nd half when he hit better, his OBP didn't crack .300. Even if you completely ignore Yuni's 1st half .598 OPS and expect that he keep up with his 2nd half .718 OPS, you are essentially choosing between two identical OPS's. One that is OBP heavy and one that is SLG heavy. With each point of OBP worth roughly 1.4x each point of SLG, I can't see why you'd choose Yuni.

[RockCoCougars]

RBI are heavily dependent on the lineup you are in

 

Not completely. Yuni is probably on one end of the spectrum while Carroll is on the other. One of the major reasons that Carroll has never been a run producer is because he's a singles hitter who is demonstratively worse at hitting with RISP over his career. Yuni drives in a decent amount of runs because he gets lots of opportunities and hits about the same with RISP. Is Yuni as 'good' a run producer as his RBI totals would indicate? No. Is Carroll as 'bad' as his totals would indicate? No, but the truth is somewhere in between. Yes, Carroll has a good OBP over his career, but even if you bat him leadoff as a 'table setter', he's not going to average two lead off at bats per game even hitting after the pitcher.

[monty57]

he's not going to average two lead off at bats per game even hitting after the pitcher.

 

No, but he'd always bat in front of Hart/Braun/Weeks, allowing them to get more PAs with runners on base. If we don't find an "OBP guy" to bat in the 1 or 2 hole, then we will probably have to bat Hart or Weeks leadoff. Without Fielder, I think it's important for Hart and Weeks to bat in the middle of the order along with Braun. Since SS is really our only position where we could upgrade to a leadoff-type hitter, it'd be nice to get one.

 

Barmes isn't a bad hitter for a SS, but he's likely to hit in the bottom of the order, meaning we'll probably go Weeks/Morgan/Hart/Braun with Gamel or Green hitting #5. That's more pressure on the rookies to be run producers right off the get go. "Stat guys" may say RBIs are meaningless, but that doesn't mean the media wouldn't crucify a rookie hitting in the 5 hole who wasn't knocking in runs. There's a lot of anti-Gamel sentiment out there already, and I'd like to take as much pressure off of him as possible.