Are the Brewers one Year from Rebuilding?

[paul253]

We don't have to have a fire sale, but we have to do something soon. Soon like....next offseason at the latest. We can't be a team of high priced free agents and expensive vets that we acquired by giving up prospects. We all know that, but that's pretty much where we are right now. We also have to convince Melvin and/or Roenecke that at some point we are going to have to use younger guys. I am cautiously optimistic Gamel will be given every change to succeed but that's one of those I'll believe it when I see it type things. This is what I think Milwaukee needs to do soon:

 

-Trade Hart and Morgan: The Brewers had apparently had a chance to get an impact pitcher from Atlanta for Hart a few years ago and passed it up. Now, with the abundance of outfielders in the system, his value needs to be maximized and he needs to go either after this season or at the deadline if we are out of it. We should be able to get a young, impact hitting prospect in return for him. And Morgan. I've always like him the fact is Schafer is the future in center field, not Morgan, and not Gomez. Gomez should stick around until he starts to get expensive and then he should be moved. Between Aoki, Gindl, Kh Davis, Schafer, Gomez and Braun, we should be ok in the outfield in 2013 and beyond.

 

-Re-sign Greinke: The future of the franchise depends on it.

 

-Let Marcum, Wolf, and KRod walk to save money and get our finances back in order a bit. Hopefully by then Peralta, Braddock, Fiers, Thornburg, Rogers, and Manzanillo are ready to step up and fill the void.

 

- Decide between Weeks and Gennett. Neither appear to be able to move off of second. This decision can wait awhile, but Gennett will likely be ready before Weeks' contract expires. It could be another situation like Hart's. Trade Weeks while his value is still high or use Gennett to get a player that puts you over the top. I actually think the trade Weeks scenario is more likely if Gamel pans out and can bring 20-30 home runs into the lineup. I like the idea of a Schafter/Gennett 1-2 punch in the order in 2014.

 

-Draft more high ceiling players, especially in rounds 2-5. I'd rather take a chance on someone who could turn into an allstar but may fail then draft a guy whose ceiling is 6th inning reliever or AAAA player.

 

Granted a lot of this counts on guys like Gamel, Peralta, Braddock, Fiers, Schafer, and Gennett producing but nothing any of them have done yet suggests to me that they won't. I have extremely high hopes for Schafer and Peralta and think they could be impact players for a long time. With Peralta as a #3 behind Greinke and Gallardo, and with the likes of Narveson, Jungmann, Bradley, Thornburg and Scarpetta filling out the rotation, I think we can be successful for a long time. But we need to move guys like Hart and Wolf to free up the room.

[TURBO]

Lawrie DID in fact play 2B while a member of the Timber Rattlers...(2009)

[3and2Fastball]

Caleb Gindl and his .390 OBP in AAA as a 22 year old will be ready to replace Hart by 2013. My concern is that the franchise will undervalue Gindl and let him get away ala Nelson Cruz

 

Gennett should be ready closer to 2015, which is good because that is the year Weeks likely becomes a free agent

 

Agree on re-signing Greinke, and letting K-Rod, Wolf & Marcum walk after this season. If for some unlikely reason we are out of it at the 2012 trade deadline we could get quite a haul of young talent for Hart, Marcum, Wolf & K-Rod, but I expect we'll be right in the playoff hunt at that time...

 

What this franchise really needs is a young SS to develop, either through the draft or trade....

 

I don't think the Brewers see Taylor Green as more than a utility guy. I'm not sure if that is an accurate assessment or not but I think that is how they see him....

 

I really expect Mat Gamel to be a very solid 25 HR, 90 RBI, .850 OPS 1st basemen for the Brewers for the next 4-5 years

[jerichoholicninja]

Does Ginnett really project to be the type of player you trade a Rickie Weeks in his prime to make room for?

[TheCrew07]

Lawrie played 2B throughout his time in the Brewer's system above A-Ball. However it was also clear that his defense as a 2nd baseman wasn't ascending as one would hope.

 

i posted a few times about moving him to 3B or the OF. He was a good enough athlete to play anywhere, I even watched him make some highlight reel type athletic plays as a 2B when he was in WI. I think Toronto just did the obvious, they moved him to the corner and put the carrot out in front of him that he could break into the bigs in 2011 with them and Brett made the most of his opportunity.

 

I still think all the the talk about Lawrie's bad attitude from people who largely supported Braun's flamboyance (especially early in his career) was completely off the mark. If you look at the comments made by both players and their actions in a vacuum they are nearly identical. That kind of supreme confidence is hard for me to identify with because I never had it, but speaking in general terms, players with that kind of attitude don't often fail if they have any of kind work ethic.

 

My disdain for the Marcum trade has been made abundantly clear, and maybe if he's in still in the system at the time of the Greinke trade Lawrie the centerpiece of that deal. Again, I've always liked Marcum, I've felt for years that he should have been the primary target of the Overbay trade, he's one of a very select few soft tossers that I've latched onto. If Lawrie would have went for Greinke, then we'd still have Odorizzi, I have a hard time believing Melvin would have given up our best pitching and hitting prospects in the same trade, and I could have lived with that.

 

Monty's point about alternative deals is the part that I think many people tend gloss over in regards to Melvin. The Doug traded Player(s) X for Player Y so obviously that was the best deal the Brewers could have gotten line of thinking. I think that's only been true in a few cases, the dominoes certainly didn't have to fall the way they did, Melvin just has a pretty extensive history of favoring certain types of trades, so those are the deals he will most often make. It doesn't mean there weren't better deals out there or different possibilities, it just means Doug trades for established MLB talent and will pay whatever it takes to acquire it. Outside of 2 trades last season where he picked up players other teams were basically just looking to dump, who's he ever fleeced and gotten the best of in a trade? His best trade prior to Morgan from a value standpoint was probably the deal for Carlos Lee, but then squashed that notion by giving up Lee and Cruz for Cordero and Mench.

 

Realistically how would the Sabathia trade have looked if the Mets wouldn't have totally given away the wildcard to the Brewers in the last 10 games? Yes, yes... I know and I get the playoff appearance, the whole monkey off the back, my fandom was validated, etc... all those feelings, but looking back now, what was all that pride really worth? Was it worth 2009 and 10? I'm interested in sustained success and a WS title, but the only way for the Brewers to sustain success is to continually mix in young talent, to keep cycling fresh young back talent into the MLB team and to balance payroll. Is the current payroll sustainable? I don't believe it is, we simply cannot get older and more expensive on average every single year and maintain success over the long-term. Sooner or later age catches up with everyone.

 

The Marcum trade in particular was like a bad joke because it took us 2 trades to get the right guy and it came so many years after I first started hammering away on the Overbay trade. Instead of getting a guy in his mid 20s with 6 years of service time we acquire the same player post TJ surgery when he's nearly 30 and with 2 years of service time. It was like Melvin was reading the forum and sticking it to me personally because I bag on him so much for the way he values players. I wanted to punch Doug in the eye, say "and that", and walk away...

 

Like I said at the time, Melvin secured his future in the near term with those 2 trades last winter, Mark A will extend him because of the playoff appearance and because of the players Melvin bought with the farm system. Melvin has continued to spend talent even though Seid hasn't proven he's the talent evaluator that Z was and hasn't really replenished the minor league system to this point. We have bunch of nice but not great pitching prospects (there is potential to be sure, but no Yo as of today) at this time, very few impact hitting talents if any, and if Greinke has another CY type season he prices himself out of Milwaukee and then what? Do we end up resigning Wolf or Marcum much to my chagrin? What will the Brewers be in 2013? How much success can Melvin maintain when he doesn't really have the trade pieces to make deals for marquee MLB talent anymore? On average that first wave is only going to get older and likely play less games per season which in turn makes them less productive on the whole, while their salaries continue to escalate. Throw on top of that the very real possibly that Ramirez isn't worth the money by year 3 of his contract, the MLB Brewers could quickly become a disaster.

 

There is a very fine line between being veteran and being old, and I for one don't want the Brewers to end up on the wrong side of that line.

[3and2Fastball]

Does Ginnett really project to be the type of player you trade a Rickie Weeks in his prime to make room for?

 

Weeks will be 32 years old when the Brewers have a team option on him in 2015. The next 3 seasons will tell us a lot about his durability and value. Many still see Weeks as a 30-35 HR a season guy *if* he can stay healthy, and that has always been the "if". Weeks had a .366 OBP as a 21 year old in AA ball in 2004. Scooter turns 22 this season and he'll likely be in AA ball this year, so we'll see.... a 32 year old Rickie Weeks who hits 35 bombs a season could certainly be moved to 1B or RF in 2015 if Scooter ends up being a great prospect....

[paul253]

Gennett should be ready closer to 2015, which is good because that is the year Weeks likely becomes a free agent

 

He'll be in AA this season so I'd say it'd be closer to 2014. He could be in AAA in 2015 but I think he'll be ready by 2014.

 

Does Ginnett really project to be the type of player you trade a Rickie Weeks in his prime to make room for?

 

He might be. He'll never hit for as much power but he may very well hit for better average. It's a shame neither can play shortstop. I think you also have to factor in cost though. Gennett and his league minimum or Weeks and his likely $8-$12 million salary?

[monty57]

Here's an example of how I think we could unburden ourselves from the budget glut I see forthcoming, and yet still stay relevant in the playoff hunt:

 

-Extend Greinke - either this needs to be done, or we'll end up overpaying a lesser SP on the FA market. It will be expensive, but probably necessary

 

-Trade Morgan now. Let Aoki platoon in CF until the Brewers' brass believes Schafer is ready, and then let Schafer take over. Having Aoki play a couple of months will allow for us to keep Schafer another year, so I'd probably do that. Schafer's probably ready now, so we'd free up some salary and bring back some talent in return for Morgan.

 

-Trade Hart at trade deadline if we're out of it, but more likely next offseason. See if Atlanta is still interested... they have an excess of young SP. With another year of AAA under his belt, Gindl will be MLB ready, and six years of Gindl + young SP should be more valueable than one year of Hart.

 

-Next offseason, shop Weeks, who could bring back mega-talent in terms of prospects, or Ramirez who would bring back less. Replace the traded player in the lineup with Taylor Green, who should be able to "prove himself" this year both at AAA and when he gets extended MLB playing time filling in for injured Weeks/Ramirez.

 

Between the Hart and Weeks/Ramirez trades, not only would we save a lot of money, but we should be able to bring back young talent in needed areas, most notably a long-term solution at SS and some additional pitching. Not including any other players we may pick up, we would have an offense of Schafer, Gindl, Braun, Ramirez, Gamel, Green, Lucroy, {young SS}, which should still be pretty good (assuming Gamel & Green show they're capable this year), and have a rotation anchored by Yo & Greinke, with our young SP's sprinkling in every year, and any additional SP we can get in the trades.

 

There were some major trades this offseason for comparison. The Padres received Baseball America #33 prospect Yonder Alonso, SP Edinson Volquez, Baseball America #53 prospect Catcher Yasmani Grandal and reliever prospect Brad Boxberger (#12 prospect in San Diego's system per MLB.com) for SP Mat Latos. I don't know how Latos' trade value stacks up to Rickie Weeks, but if we could get an equivalent haul for Weeks, it would probably make up for us having to replace Weeks with Taylor Green. Plus, the savings would probably be enough for us to retain Greinke.

 

As I said earlier, it won't take too much for us to remain a playoff-caliber team, but we will have to do some things differently than we have in the past few years. Trading Weeks may seem unthinkable, but I'd sure do it if it brought back a package like the one above, and kept our payroll under control.

[jerichoholicninja]

Ramirez isn't going to bring back anything of value and I can't see many teams wanting to take the contract unless Milwaukee pays a lot of it. I don't see anyway trading him makes a net gain unless Alex Rodriguez has a serious injury early in the next two seasons.

[Warning Track Power]

-Extend Greinke - either this needs to be done, or we'll end up overpaying a lesser SP on the FA market. It will be expensive, but probably necessary

 

I think most of us are on board with this and believe the Brewers future success in the short to longish term depends on this occurring. I firmly believe that without a re-signed Greinke the Brewers might be going into semi-rebuild mode. They don't become a low to mid 70s win team but with likley losing Greinke, Marcum and Wolf, there will be some growing pains with a new staff.

 

-Trade Morgan now. Let Aoki platoon in CF until the Brewers' brass believes Schafer is ready, and then let Schafer take over. Having Aoki play a couple of months will allow for us to keep Schafer another year, so I'd probably do that. Schafer's probably ready now, so we'd free up some salary and bring back some talent in return for Morgan.

 

Completely agree here. I've seen enough of Schafer to be ready to go with him in CF, with Aoki and Gomez backing him up. I'd be more than willing to see if Morgan could bring back a RH OF bat (LaPorta perhaps). I'm not as interested in the $ savings as I am in getting rid of the redundancy of Morgan/Schafer/Aoki in the OF.

 

-Trade Hart at trade deadline if we're out of it, but more likely next offseason. See if Atlanta is still interested... they have an excess of young SP. With another year of AAA under his belt, Gindl will be MLB ready, and six years of Gindl + young SP should be more valueable than one year of Hart.

 

We'll see about this. I doubt ATL will be willing to part with a Beachy/Minor/Delgado/Vizcaino/Teheran for Hart. I just don't see them moving a young pitcher for Hart who is 30 this season and likely on the downside of his prime years. I agree with the premise though if Gindl or whoever replaces Hart could provide 80% of what Hart does for 20% of the cost.

 

-Next offseason, shop Weeks, who could bring back mega-talent in terms of prospects, or Ramirez who would bring back less. Replace the traded player in the lineup with Taylor Green, who should be able to "prove himself" this year both at AAA and when he gets extended MLB playing time filling in for injured Weeks/Ramirez.

 

No. I'm sorry but I just can't get behind a Weeks deal. Call it my fanboy status of Rickie but I don't want the Brewers to go all Oakland A's and trade off all their studs. I understand he is probably the biggest chip they have to deal but a Teixeira type win deal for Rickie is unlikely and I would say that a Sabathia return is far more likely and look how they turned out for Cleveland. Can't get behind it. I think Braun and Weeks should be the offensive cornerstones for the Brewers moving forward with nice complementary players like Lucroy, Gamel, Schafer, Green and Gindl surrounding them. I don't forsee any of those guys being perrenial all stars that Braun is and Weeks could be, but all could be solid above average MLB players that when paired with a Greinke-Gallardo 1-2 should be in contention for the playoffs annually.

[monty57]

Ramirez isn't going to bring back anything of value and I can't see many teams wanting to take the contract

 

I agree, which is why I would think that if Green has another great year at AAA it would more likely be Weeks who could be shopped. However, if anyone wants to give us something good for Ramirez next offseason, I'd rather trade him than Rickie.

 

No. I'm sorry but I just can't get behind a Weeks deal. Call it my fanboy status of Rickie but I don't want the Brewers to go all Oakland A's and trade off all their studs.

 

WTP, I agree that trading Weeks would be tough to stomach. I love the guy, and he is a very good player. However, after this season, he will have three years on his contract, which should make him more marketable than someone like Sabathia, who we "rented" for a couple of months. I also find it hard to believe that we will be able to afford Weeks, Yo, Braun, Ramirez and Greinke in a few years and still be able to pay the remaining 20 guys on the team. If that's true, I'd rather trade someone like Weeks now "on our terms," than wait until we are forced to trade him "on someone else's terms." Think of the return for K-Rod when everyone knew the Mets needed to trade him.

 

If Green posts another .900+ OPS in AAA, and maybe fills in at the MLB level for an injury and hits well, kind of "proving" he deserves a shot at the MLB level, and if we could get a return in talent similar to what San Diego received for Mat Latos this offseason, we could essentially rebuild and remain a playoff-caliber team by trading Weeks and using the savings to extend Greinke.

 

Let's say we could work a trade centered around Weeks for a Jurickson Profar (Rangers) or Manny Machado (Orioles). These are both top 10 caliber 19-year-old shortstop prospects. Forget whether they're available or whether the MLB team needs a 2B - this is "in theory." If we could construct a trade involving Weeks for a young, stud SS who would be cheap and under team control for six years, we could save about $30MM on Weeks and the $5-6MM/year or so we otherwise will pay a FA rent-a-SS, and insert Green into 2B. Green is not Weeks-when-healthy-caliber, but he could be around an .800 OPS player, which is still awfully good for a 2B. If we wait until Green "proves himself" at AAA for another year to show 2011 wasn't a fluke, there would be more certainty that he'd be able to hold his own in the majors.

 

You're probably right that one year of Hart wouldn't bring back a Teheran/Minor type pitcher, but let's say he can return a #3-type starter with a few years of service time remaining. We could have a rotation of Yo, Greinke, {Hart trade}, Peralta, Narveson, with a lineup of Schafer, Gindl, Braun, Ramirez, Gamel, Green, {top young SS}, Lucroy. There would be more question marks then we'd have if we keep signing $10MM players, but there's a lot of talent, and we'd have money to fill in gaps. Plus, we'd have a core of Yo, Greinke and Braun locked up, have most of the team under cheap contracts and could offer extensions to players who prove worthy.

 

Note that I would only consider trading someone like Weeks if we got a phenomenal return, and with his contract and track record, I don't think I'm too far out in left field when I'm thinking something similar to the return for Latos, which was two top-50 prospects, another good prospect, and a young, high-upside pitcher, most of whom will be playing in the majors this year. Latos is in his final pre-arby year this year, so he has additional value of being young, good and inexpensive, but Weeks will have three years of control, is still not old, and has a proven track-record.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think you should expect a return similar to what the Pads got for one of the best young arms in the game, since pitching is the commodity on the trade market. But I do agree with the more general point that Weeks, if shopped, should fetch a strong return.

[3and2Fastball]

Weeks is such a roll of the dice due to injury concerns that I don't think he'd bring as much in return as what we might hope for. I think Weeks would need to put together 2 straight injury free years before his trade value would go up.

[brettac1]

Weeks is probably more valuable to the Brewers than he would be on the market.

[paul253]

I think you could get two good to very good positional prospects for Weeks after this season. But I'd wait until after the 2013 season to trade him. I do think they need to trade Hart soon though, unless Gamel completely flops this season in which case Hart moves to first on a full time basis.

[Warning Track Power]

WTP, I agree that trading Weeks would be tough to stomach. I love the guy, and he is a very good player. However, after this season, he will have three years on his contract, which should make him more marketable than someone like Sabathia, who we "rented" for a couple of months. I also find it hard to believe that we will be able to afford Weeks, Yo, Braun, Ramirez and Greinke in a few years and still be able to pay the remaining 20 guys on the team. If that's true, I'd rather trade someone like Weeks now "on our terms," than wait until we are forced to trade him "on someone else's terms." Think of the return for K-Rod when everyone knew the Mets needed to trade him.

 

If Green posts another .900+ OPS in AAA, and maybe fills in at the MLB level for an injury and hits well, kind of "proving" he deserves a shot at the MLB level, and if we could get a return in talent similar to what San Diego received for Mat Latos this offseason, we could essentially rebuild and remain a playoff-caliber team by trading Weeks and using the savings to extend Greinke.

 

Monty, in my mind the Brewers core four moving forward should be Braun, Rickie, Gallardo and Greinke. As mentioned in my previous post, starting with those four and moving forward with solid and relatively inexpensive talent in the field with Lucroy, Gamel, Green, Schafer, Gindl and on the hill with Narveson, Jungmann, Bradley, Thronburg, Peralta etc... should allow the Brewers to afford those four players. Assuming Green does in fact prove he deserves his shot, I would look into dealing A-Ram after this season. Yes it won't be on our terms and we would have to eat some salary, but it will at least allow us to move the older, more expensive player between Weeks-Ramirez.

 

You're probably right that one year of Hart wouldn't bring back a Teheran/Minor type pitcher, but let's say he can return a #3-type starter with a few years of service time remaining. We could have a rotation of Yo, Greinke, {Hart trade}, Peralta, Narveson, with a lineup of Schafer, Gindl, Braun, Ramirez, Gamel, Green, {top young SS}, Lucroy. There would be more question marks then we'd have if we keep signing $10MM players, but there's a lot of talent, and we'd have money to fill in gaps. Plus, we'd have a core of Yo, Greinke and Braun locked up, have most of the team under cheap contracts and could offer extensions to players who prove worthy.

 

We aren't too far apart in our opinions of Hart. I like the guy but I am more apt to go with Weeks than Hart if I had to pick between the two. Let's say the Braves offered a Pastornicky and a #3ish type pitcher. I think we would have to strongly consider this as the system is bereft of SS prospects and I think the Brewers would be better served with a Rickie-Pastornicky-Gindl 2B-SS-RF combo than a potential Gennett-Machado-ish Prospect-Gindl combo.

 

Note that I would only consider trading someone like Weeks if we got a phenomenal return, and with his contract and track record, I don't think I'm too far out in left field when I'm thinking something similar to the return for Latos, which was two top-50 prospects, another good prospect, and a young, high-upside pitcher, most of whom will be playing in the majors this year. Latos is in his final pre-arby year this year, so he has additional value of being young, good and inexpensive, but Weeks will have three years of control, is still not old, and has a proven track-record.

 

Brettac said it best...Weeks is probably more valuable to us than he is on the market. I think we would be very underwhlemed in what we would receive in a Rickie deal as I don't think we would get anywhere close to the package Latos brought. If this is the case, I am more apt to continue with Rickie and make him a Brewer lifer and fill the rest of the lineup in around him and Braun by dealing other expensive everyday players like Hart and Ramirez, even if we have to eat a little of their contracts.

[monty57]

I think we would be very underwhlemed in what we would receive in a Rickie deal

 

If we'd be underwhelmed, I wouldn't do it. If we'd be overwhelmed, I'd do it. If we'd be, well, whelmed, then I'd think about it.

 

More than any one specific deal, my major hope is that Melvin remembers that it is possible to trade good veterans for a package of young talent, especially when we have a prospect knocking on the door. You don't need to bring in old, overpriced 3B when you have a decent prospect ready to take over, you don't need to bring in a Japanese import as the 3rd CF, when potentially our best CF right now will be stuck in AAA, it is possible to trade an overproducing Casey McGehee for pitching instead of trading a potential superstar 3B from the farm, etc.

 

I like what Melvin has done to turn a doormat of a franchise into a winner. I am suspect of some of his recent moves, which hint that he may be mortgaging the future in the hopes of getting a championship before he retires, and then leaving the next GM with an overpriced trash pile. For a recent view of this, look no further than the Cubs' previous owners.

 

I'm for whatever it takes to keep us solvant and relevant.

[3and2Fastball]

The more I see of Gindl the more optimistic I am of him being a very very special player for years to come. He's already a much better fielder than Hart or Braun, he hustles all out, he has great plate discipline (great OBP) and he's just 22 years old. One more year of AAA and he'll then be ready to be the Brewers every day RF for the years 2013-2019

[paul253]

One more year of AAA and he'll then be ready to be the Brewers every day RF for the years 2013-2019

 

Which means he'll spend all of 2013 in Nashville. Then in 2014 he'll be the last guy on the bench getting about 5 at bats a week. In 2015 he'll be a platoon player. And finally in 2016 he'll be given a chance at an every day job.

 

I'm being sarcastic of course but this is the type of attitude Melvin and CO. have given their fan base regarding the young players on there team.

[HiAndTight]

I don't think you should expect a return similar to what the Pads got for one of the best young arms in the game, since pitching is the commodity on the trade market. But I do agree with the more general point that Weeks, if shopped, should fetch a strong return.

 

 

 

Calling a pitcher with two seasons in which he hasn't reached the 200 inning mark in Petco one of the best in the game, a tad premature.

[endaround]

One more year of AAA and he'll then be ready to be the Brewers every day RF for the years 2013-2019

 

Which means he'll spend all of 2013 in Nashville. Then in 2014 he'll be the last guy on the bench getting about 5 at bats a week. In 2015 he'll be a platoon player. And finally in 2016 he'll be given a chance at an every day job.

 

I'm being sarcastic of course but this is the type of attitude Melvin and CO. have given their fan base regarding the young players on there team.

 

I guess this just seems like a big overreaction to the Ramirez signing. Come opening day the Brewers will have most likely a 26 year old home grown starting pitcher throwing to a 25 year old home grown starting catcher with a home grown 25 year old at 1B a home grown 29 year old at 2B, a home grown 28 year old LFer and maybe a home grown 30 year old in RF.

[HiAndTight]

One more year of AAA and he'll then be ready to be the Brewers every day RF for the years 2013-2019

 

Which means he'll spend all of 2013 in Nashville. Then in 2014 he'll be the last guy on the bench getting about 5 at bats a week. In 2015 he'll be a platoon player. And finally in 2016 he'll be given a chance at an every day job.

 

I'm being sarcastic of course but this is the type of attitude Melvin and CO. have given their fan base regarding the young players on there team.

 

 

 

And that was knee slapping hilarious(I'm also being sarcastic), but with the exception of Gamel who was only blocked by Braun, Prince, Hart and McGehee.

 

What other players do we have that are blocked or that are suppose to have been playing the last several years that haven't? We wait to long on Lucroy? Has Gindl just been BANGING down the door? Schafer? He's had ONE healthy year now where he was within range of the actual big leagues.

 

So please show us this lengthy list of players that Melvin and "CO," has always done with young players on there team.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think you should expect a return similar to what the Pads got for one of the best young arms in the game, since pitching is the commodity on the trade market. But I do agree with the more general point that Weeks, if shopped, should fetch a strong return.

Calling a pitcher with two seasons in which he hasn't reached the 200 inning mark in Petco one of the best in the game, a tad premature.

Thankfully I called him one of the best young arms in the game

[3and2Fastball]

And that was knee slapping hilarious(I'm also being sarcastic), but with the exception of Gamel who was only blocked by Braun, Prince, Hart and McGehee.

 

What other players do we have that are blocked or that are suppose to have been playing the last several years that haven't? We wait to long on Lucroy? Has Gindl just been BANGING down the door? Schafer? He's had ONE healthy year now where he was within range of the actual big leagues.

 

So please show us this lengthy list of players that Melvin and "CO," has always done with young players on there team.

 

Taylor Green. .336 BA, .413 OBP, .997 OPS in AAA last season ....

 

Between Green & Gamel, there really doesn't need to be a lengthy list when considering how perplexing 3B was last season. And many have questioned the use of $$$ for Aramis Ramirez. I think Aramis will be solid but agree, that $$$ might have been spent more wisely considering that Green appears ready

[paul253]

What other players do we have that are blocked or that are suppose to have been playing the last several years that haven't? We wait to long on Lucroy? Has Gindl just been BANGING down the door? Schafer? He's had ONE healthy year now where he was within range of the actual big leagues.

 

Logan Schafer: Could easily be the opening day center fielder right now but we'd rather have a platoon of Carlos Gomez, a guy who can't hit for you know what and Nyger Morgan. And while Morgan did put up good offensive numbers last season I seem to remember quite a few people on here suggesting his antics might wear a little thin if we aren't winning. Gomez is fine as a backup outfielder, pinch fielder, and late inning defensive replacement. That's about all. And on top of that, now you can add Aoki to the list of people ahead of Schafer.

 

Mat Gamel: Could have been the third basemen years ago or the right fielder years ago when Milwaukee had offers from Atlanta for Corey Hart. And let's be honest about it. If the Brewers weren't absolutely tapped out for money do you think they wouldn't have made a run for someone like Derek Lee? They are already talking about giving Corey Hart, who hasn't seen first base in what, 6 years, time at first just so Mat Gamel doesn't have to face a left handed pitcher.

 

Taylor Green: What more does he have to prove in the minors? He could easily be the opening day third basemen, but we instead signed a terrible fielding mid 30's player to a 3 year $36 million contract, which means Green either goes back to the minors or sits on the bench six days a week.

We wait to long on Lucroy

 

Lucroy was basically forced into action because we had nobody else to put there. The only reason we didn't sit him behind other players is because the other players we had at the position were terrible (or hurt).

but with the exception of Gamel who was only blocked by Braun, Prince, Hart and McGehee.

 

The problem of someone is blocked can be pretty easily remedied by trading the person that is blocking him. They have been offered deals in the past but they don't take them, choosing instead to resign Hart and keep Fielder for another year before letting him walk. Apparently you have this idea that the Brewers are now a franchise that can continue to run out a lineup of expensive veterans every year and it's never going to catch up to them. Look at the title of the thread. Are we a year away from rebuilding? Do you realize how close this franchise is to going back to being a sub .500 team and staying there for awhile? If Greinke and Marcum walk after this year, we basically go back to being an older and more expensive version of the sub .500 2010 team. We didn't need to sign Ramirez. It was a panic signing because Fielder left. We don't need to keep Nyger Morgan. Aoki and/or Schafer can provide everything Morgan can provide. Hart probably needs to stick around this year but if Gindl has another year in 2012 like he did in 2011 then the Brewers should think about shopping him as well. You don't have to hang onto to ALL of your guys ALL the time. It is ok to trade them for prospects to help keep the franchise going. Eventually at the rate the Brewers are going, they are going to run out of money to keep all the players they need to compete (Like Greinke) and without capable replacements they'll drop off significantly. If you can supplement the players you REALLY need to win year in year out (Greinke, Gallardo, Weeks, Braun, etc ) with younger, cheaper guys (Schafer, Green, Gamel, Gindl) then you should have enough resources to go out and fill holes (shortstop, relievers, quality bench players) when need be.

 

And that was knee slapping hilarious(I'm also being sarcastic), but with the exception of Gamel who was only blocked by Braun, Prince, Hart and McGehee

 

I'm going to say this as nice as I can because it's not the political board. First off, I said that I was being "sarcastic", not "funny". I wasn't going for "funny". You act as though I'm the first person whose ever suggested Doug Melvin and whoever happens to be managing the team don't like to give their young players much of a chance to prove themselves. You don't need to be such a smart-___ (fill in the blank however you see fit). Second, people are allowed to disagree with you. Relax. It'll be ok.