Gamel-Good as Gone?

[rickh150]

When the Milwaukee Brewers reached Sept. 1, a few players were to be added, I knew. Yet, my wonder was what players would be added WITH Mat Gamel. By not even bringing him up at that point or throughout September, when the Brewers needed every last win to secure home field in the 1st round, the writing(in pencil, at least) is on the wall for Gamel in the Brewers' organization: he's gone by Opening Day.

Why?

- He could have been on the Brewers' roster. There are no rules to keep him off it. Yet, the Brewers felt he could not help them win one game. If they did, he would have been on the team in September. They needed every win, remember, and his Braun-like numbers warranted it.

-Fielder, as a pre-rookie was brought up for part of a season to sit on the bench and soak it in and hit off the bench. They believed in him and wanted to get his feet wet for the next year. Gamel was in the same position with the same GM. Different decision

- Gamel could have had a great experience watching a MLB playoff race. He could have a few meaningful pinch AB's in crucial spots. The crowd would have come to its feet to greet their new 1B in the making in a key spot. Talk about a confidence booster! All positives could have accomplished. A boost into this year could have been launched. The Brewers said no.

-The Brewers had no legit power threat off the bench. In a pennant race, that could have been huge (think Matt Stairs).

- The Brewers must think his trading value is looking pretty good right now. They must have thought that his worth could not have been added to in September that much, and that an 0 for11 could have done more serious hurt to a player's status, a player that has not ripped it up in the majors in his two short stints.

 

I do not buy the Brewers view that they had enough lefties on the bench and that more batters could mess up BP. Come on! That's pretty weak. For you doubters, look at it this way: could any of you tell the future 2012-2017 IB of the Milwaukee Brewers to sit on the couch at home when he could be watching it up close, sitting between Braun and Fielder?

 

The real reason Gamel was not in a Brewers' uniform in September of 2011 was hidden cleverly: Milwaukee is NOT high on Gamel. The dude will be shopped...seriously.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Seeing as Melvin said that Gamel is the frontrunner to replace Fielder at 1B during his end of season press conference, I think you're completely wrong. I think he'll at least be given a chance. Someone may be on the roster to platoon with him, and he might not last but he'll be on the roster.

[jmeks23]

He may very well get traded, but I pretty much disagree with all your points. I agree with PrinceEatMeat that he'll get a shot a 1B in ST.

[kramnoj]

The real reason Gamel was not in a Brewers' uniform in September of 2011 was hidden cleverly: Milwaukee is NOT high on Gamel

 

One could argue that Milwaukee wasn't high on the one thing that Gamel would be asked to do in September - pitch hit. Gamel's defenders will argue that he did well when he was playing regularly, and that is true. But it also then highlights just how pathetic he was as a DH or PH. As a reference, point, his performance in those 73 PAs is worse than Betancourt has done in any season.

 

There wouldn't have been much value to add a player who wasn't expected to do well at the one thing he could be called on. It probably didn't help that Gamel was previously called up and then told the Brewers he was hurt and couldn't contribute. There wasn't much upside to the potential for distraction.

[rickh150]

Since when are we supposed to believe Melvin in this part of the offseason? Of course he'll say that Gamel is destined to play 1B this year. Why wouldn't he? Gamel's trade value would take a huge hit.

[PrinceEatMeat]

He could've easily just said that they'll evaluate all options and that there are internal candidates like Gamel. Didn't have to say that Gamel was likely to get the first crack. Mat Gamel doesn't have a whole lot of trade value as it is. He has to show something at the Major League level. It would be smart to give him a shot in ST to win the job. He hasn't had the opportunity to play everyday yet.

[JohnBriggs12]

His trade value is very limited. There aren't a lot of teams looking for a 26 year old who's not made any impact in the big leagues and who's limited defensively to 1B or corner OF. True his minor league numbers have been very good, but lots of AAAA guys who never panned out in the majors have put up numbers like that in their mid 20's in AAA. Its not like he's doing that at age 22.

 

With no outstanding alternatives, it's likely he'll start the year at 1B. I don't think they'll stick with him all that long if he struggles though. He's going to have pressure to produce right away. This is his make or break year. If he hits .250 with 17-18 HR and 70-75 rbi, they'll look elsewhere for 2013. He's going to need to hit .275 or up and have close to 25 HR and 90 RBI. Time will tell.

[kramnoj]

Gamel is also out of options.

 

With no outstanding alternatives, it's likely he'll start the year at 1B. I don't think they'll stick with him all that long if he struggles though. He's going to have pressure to produce right away.

 

The challenge with that is that if Gamel earns the job in ST but then doesn't perform well for a few months, the Brewers don't really have a replacement at 1B ready to call up. I guess that's where the Hart to 1B gains momentum, as it is more likely that an OF will be ready to call up and not have a place to play otherwise.

[CheezWizHed]

If the Brewers sign/trade for a 1B (more than a backup), Gamel will ultimately be traded. If they aren't going to give him a shot now, his trade value will only drop as they wait.

[endaround]

Of course the reason the Cardinals are world champions are due to players like Craig and Jay who are incredibly similar to Gamel.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Cards are exactly who I think of when I think of how the Brewers have handled Gamel & Green*. I chuckle to think about how long LaRussa would've put up with McGehee's lack of production last season.

* - not that Gamel had a real position until Fielder left, just the general approach of not being afraid of playing 'unproven' players

[Raw Biz]

Of course the reason the Cardinals are world champions are due to players like Craig and Jay who are incredibly similar to Gamel.

This is how I feel. At some point, you need to give your homegrown, cheap guys a chance to play. Craig, Jay, etc. may not be all-stars but they are solid, useful players that contribute, without having to spend money or prospects to get them on your team.

[TooLiveBrew]

Imo Jay's a decent hitting comp. for Gamel, but Gamel has more power

[TheCrew]

It's time for Gamel to do something for the Brewers - simple as that.

 

I really can't imagine that Melvin is looking at shopping him or that was his reasoning in Sept for not bringing him up (Melvin with that much foresight.... c'mon). Heck, what could Gamel even get the Brewers in a trade at this point? I can't imagine much more than a has been prospect or a middle reliever......... his value is next to nothing.

[bucksman4]

The Brewers management and coaching staff have never, I repeat, never given Gamel a real chance at the big league level. Sporadic ABs sprinkled in during his call-ups are not a platform to evaluate a guy who is used to playing everyday in the minor leagues. They have been setting this guy, who has put up amazing numbers in the minors, in a position to fail. Period. I believe it is because they do not like his attitude or personality so they choose to not give him a true shot. They did the same thing with Nelson Cruz and look where he has taken his career post-Milwaukee.

 

They ought to give him the 1B job from the get-go and watch the results pour in. If not, I sincerely hope they trade him to a team who will utilize him. The Brewers brass will rue the day they do that because they'll look like goats when he shows them up by producing with regular ABs at the major league level.

[YoungGeezy]

Brewers are very interested in Gamel. Its more of an issue of how willing Mat is to take care of his body in the off-season and be accountable for it. Three straight seasons he has walked into spring training with a glowing opportunity to make the team (2 of them competing for a starting job) and each time he has suffered major set backs as soon as we walked through the gates. Its not the Brewers fault that he has blown those ST opportunities. Not Brewers fault that McGehee decided to shine and they have 2 all-stars at 1B and RF who blocked him. Not Brewers fault that Green is better defensively at 3B and there is zero need for another lefty who is limited to a position behind the one player in baseball who refuses to miss an inning.

 

Them not promoting had nothing to do with them not being interest in him, they just had no need for him. How many lefties do you really need? What go is it to bring up a guy who will not touch the field defensively? What good is it to promote a guy who has had extremely small success hitting off the bench?

 

We are talking about a guy the DM said I'll trade anyone in system EXCEPT Mat Gamel for CC Sabathia. So because it is worthless to bring him up to just sit there, you think they no longer want anything to do with him? I disagree with just about everything. Why even trade him? We need a 1st baseman, and here we have a guy who is cheap, prob hungry to get another crack as a starter, has loads of upside, and really doesn't have the value. Who are we going to trade him? a AAAA player? Great, that helps the team!

 

Now if he shows up like usual with his body not where it needs to be and he can't on the field and loses the battle...then cut him lose. But I'd put a lot on the line to say that the Brewers are def hoping this doesn't happen.

[kramnoj]

The Brewers management and coaching staff have never, I repeat, never given Gamel a real chance at the big league level.

 

From May 22nd to July 19 in 2009, Gamel accumulated 123 PA in 43 games. He OPSed .699 in those games.

[Raw Biz]

The Brewers management and coaching staff have never, I repeat, never given Gamel a real chance at the big league level.

 

From May 22nd to July 19 in 2009, Gamel accumulated 123 PA in 43 games. He OPSed .699 in those games.

From May 18, 2006 to July 15, 2006 Prince accumulated 209 PA in 51 games. He OPSed .691 in those games.

See, I can do it too. Prince was 22 that season and in his first full season as a starter, after appearing in 39 games the year before. Gamel was 23 in the season you posted, with 2 games the year before. Obviously Prince turned out alright. The point is, all players go through stretches like that and they mean absolutely nothing. Gamel has not been given a real chance no matter what anyone says. This is a fact. I don't understand how anyone can argue that less than 200 PAs over 3 years is a real shot. My fear is they let Gamel go and he turns into another Nelson Cruz.

[nate82]

The Cards are exactly who I think of when I think of how the Brewers have handled Gamel & Green*. I chuckle to think about how long LaRussa would've put up with McGehee's lack of production last season.

* - not that Gamel had a real position until Fielder left, just the general approach of not being afraid of playing 'unproven' players

Gamel still would have been in AAA even with LaRussa coaching. If McGehee would have been one of LaRussa's guys then he would have stayed there at 3B no matter what. I believe Cardinal fans were arguing in having Rasmus play more last year yet LaRussa kept on trotting out useless players over Rasmus. Gamel is more comparable to Rasmus than comparing him to Jay or Craig. I agree with Green though but I just don't see LaRussa playing Gamel anymore than he played in Milwaukee.

On another note I really wish the Brewers would look into trading for Rizzotti from the Phillies. Maybe a McGehee and something else could get that deal done. Rizzotti is basically a clone of Gamel though he is a little taller but offensively they are the same I think Rizzotti might have a higher ceiling than Gamel but he may also have a lower floor than Gamel also. The only reason I see him having a lower floor is because he is Ryan Howard like at 1B defensively. If not Rizzotti I would see if Mayberry would be available in a McGehee for Mayberry swap. This would allow the Brewers to either trade Hart or use Mayberry as a soft RH platoon with Gamel at 1B. I still prefer Wily Mo Pena as a bench bat though or a platoon with Gamel.

 

[YoungGeezy]

The Brewers management and coaching staff have never, I repeat, never given Gamel a real chance at the big league level.

 

From May 22nd to July 19 in 2009, Gamel accumulated 123 PA in 43 games. He OPSed .699 in those games.

From May 18, 2006 to July 15, 2006 Prince accumulated 209 PA in 51 games. He OPSed .691 in those games.

See, I can do it too. Prince was 22 that season and in his first full season as a starter, after appearing in 39 games the year before. Gamel was 23 in the season you posted, with 2 games the year before. Obviously Prince turned out alright. The point is, all players go through stretches like that and they mean absolutely nothing. Gamel has not been given a real chance no matter what anyone says. This is a fact. I don't understand how anyone can argue that less than 200 PAs over 3 years is a real shot. My fear is they let Gamel go and he turns into another Nelson Cruz.

Agreed. he deserves his shot. Late Bloomers happen a lot. I hate how successful Cruz is and we just let him go as a thrown in for Shrek Mench. I think he could produce just as well as Hart if given the opportunity. He has never had a down season, he has streaks when injuried (he always storms right back) but if he is healthy he just produces. Everywhere he has played. His biggest issue is having a healthy Spring Trainng. That has not happen in the past 3 years he has competed for a job.

[kramnoj]

The point is, all players go through stretches like that and they mean absolutely nothing. Gamel has not been given a real chance no matter what anyone says. This is a fact.

 

That's not the point that was made.

 

What to you would constitute a shot? How many PAs should be given to a player who isn't contributing?

[reillymcshane]

The point is, all players go through stretches like that and they mean absolutely nothing. Gamel has not been given a real chance no matter what anyone says. This is a fact.

 

That's not the point that was made.

 

What to you would constitute a shot? How many PAs should be given to a player who isn't contributing?

I think the Cleveland GM, Shapiro, said something like a season is divided in thirds. 1/3 to determine what's working and what's not. 1/3 to fix your problems. 1/3 to finish out with your best lineup.

 

I think the 1/3 marker is a reasonable look at a player. Give the guy 150-200 ABs. Let them play 5 times a week. See how they are perform. On a contending team, if a guy isn't doing his job after 2 months, it's time to start looking at someone else.

[cvollbrecht]

How many PAs should be given to a player who isn't contributing?

How many did McGehee have last year? About half of that number.

 

[logan82]

I prefer Gamel only sitting for an occasional start against really tough LHP. I really don't want to see Gamel in a straight platoon.

[Raw Biz]

The point is, all players go through stretches like that and they mean absolutely nothing. Gamel has not been given a real chance no matter what anyone says. This is a fact.

 

That's not the point that was made.

 

What to you would constitute a shot? How many PAs should be given to a player who isn't contributing?

I would say at least 200 PAs of consistent time. This means starting at least 4-5 times a week. I think the key with Gamel is the consistency part. Even when he was up in 09, I think his PT was sporadic.