Should college athletes be paid?

[paul253]

I was going to start this topic on the political thread but I figure there's really nothing political about it so I could bring it up here. I've always been curious what the general consensus on this is. Should college athletes be paid for doing what they do? If so, all of them? Just football and basketball players? Any sports that makes a profit? How much should they be paid? I have a fairly strong opinion on this but I want to see what other people think first.

[JimH5]

No, they shouldn't be paid.

 

Their college tuition costs upwards of $50,000 per year, and their athletic scholarship eliminates that expense.

 

I understand that everyone needs money in college, and I hear the arguments for stipends, etc. I'm fine with setting up school-approved loans to these students of $5000 to $10000 per year--but those loans should be repaid, just like other loans.

[Patrick425]

I pretty much agree with what Jim said. I am curious as to how these "profits" are spent. Are they generally used to support the athletic program as a whole, supporting those sports that may not be profitable, or possibly for stadium and field repairs, maintenance, and construction? Maybe I'm wrong, but my guess is that for public universities, it's not like these monies can be used to pad the pay of the athletic administrative staff, not sure how that works for private institutions. If they did start paying these athletes, would that mean they would have to increase ticket prices in order to support some of the other sports? How is all this "extra money" being spent now?

 

Is this discussion coming up because some schools are making tons of money on football and basketball and don't know what to do with it? How about using it to help lower tuition costs for ALL students?

[Invader3K]

I think the discussion has been coming up more and more due to the sheer amount of money the NCAA brings in, and the over commercialization of the broadcasts.

 

I tend to lean toward Jim's opinion that these players are already receiving hefty compensation in the form of their scholarships.

[1992casey]

I think that athletes should be given a stipend that's equal from athlete to athlete and school to school. As things stand, there's no way for them to get ahold of any cash unless it comes from their parents or grandparents. Heck, I couldn't even pick up an athlete's lunch tab, even if he happened to be someone I knew all my life.

[dannyjnoonan]

Of course they should be paid--at least the football and basketball players. Well, let's back up. First of all, it's stupid to have lower levels of sports like football and basketball tied to college in the first place. Other than tradition, I see no good reason for it. Minor league football and basketball should be treated just like minor league baseball, or like the lower levels of soccer in the rest of the world. It should be club and it should be pro.

 

That said, this position is unrealistic in the current climate where people have been supporting their college teams for generations. So if you're going to keep minor league football (yes, that's what division 1 college football is) tied to college, you have to pay the players. They're drawing big crowds of paying customers and making no money off of it even though they're the ones taking the risks. The coaches get paid like NFL coaches. The schools get profits like NFL team owners. The only difference is that the people that are actually making the whole thing profitable aren't getting paid.

[bani1717]

Their college tuition costs upwards of $50,000 per year, and their athletic scholarship eliminates that expense.

 

Sometimes. If you're from Wisconsin and have a full ride to play on the Badgers' football team, you're getting maybe $11,000 a year in tuition. Maybe $20,000 after other costs (housing, food, etc) are covered.

 

One thing I'd be ok with is for in-state students to be allowed to get the same amount of total money they would get if they were out-of-state. Another thing I'd be ok with is a small monthly stipend (maybe $500-$1000 per month year-round) since pretty much their only option for getting a job is part-time work in the spring and summer.

 

That would leave it up to schools to decide whether to offer a little more than they currently do. But there have to be limits, unless you want to see any sport all the non-revenue sports disappear.

[paul253]

Minor league football and basketball should be treated just like minor

league baseball, or like the lower levels of soccer in the rest of the

world. It should be club and it should be pro.

 

But they also have college baseball where they don't get paid. No matter how many leagues you have going on, you're still going to have college football and college basketball. And people are going to pay to watch it and it's going to make money for the school.

 

The one thing I'd be ok with is allowing the athletes to get a job, but that may be a slippery slope. Let's say Joe Football wants a job and applies at a local restaurant where the owner is a booster and a huge fan. What prevents him from giving this player $25 an hour and doesn't make him do any work? That could lead to huge recruiting violations. I think those cases would be few and far between but I can definitely see it happening.

 

But I think the athlete should be able to work if he wants. People hit it on the head when they say the athletes get free tuition, but don't forget the scholarship covers everything, including books and meals. They get everything they need. The only thing an athlete needs money for is entertainment and extra food for himself. No way should what basically amounts to taxpayer money and money given to the school by non-athletes be handed to athletes so they can afford to go to McDonalds at night or buy a playstation. Yes, the school is gaining a lot by what the athlete does, but that athlete isn't exactly a slave to the situation here. On top of getting to showcase their talents on national tv and using the school as a possible stepping stone to professional sports, they get a free college degree. College degrees are becoming more and more important in order to find a well paying job nowadays. A lot of people are borrowing huge amounts of money to obtain the same thing. People shouldn't underestimate how important that opportunity for a degree actually is. In a lot of cases this is a chance they'd have never gotten if they weren't good at a sport.

[RockCoCougars]

Should college football and men's basketball players receive a 'stipend' tied to the revenue that these sports bring to the school? Absolutely. Will they? Absolutely not.

[Baldkin]

Can someone explain to me what prevents these college student athletes from taking out student loans?

Funny, how I've never heard the guy getting a track scholarship or the girl getting a ride for swimming begging to be paid.

[brettac1]

Or, how about they just get rid of stupid age limits for professional sports?

[dannyjnoonan]

"Let's say Joe Football wants a job and applies at a local restaurant where the owner is a booster and a huge fan. What prevents him from giving this player $25 an hour and doesn't make him do any work?"

 

So he'd be getting paid what the market establishes he's worth. And that's a bad thing how?

 

"But they also have college baseball where they don't get paid. No matter how many leagues you have going on, you're still going to have college football and college basketball. And people are going to pay to watch it and it's going to make money for the school."

 

I admit that it'd be impossible to change the system at this point to untangle the lower levels of basketball and football from college. It's unfortunate, but true. But that's exactly why they should be paid what they're worth.

[GAME05]

any stipend that would go to football and baseball players would then have to be given to all athletes, who work just as hard as football players do, but just not in a money-making sport. that's a lot of stipends to be given out.

 

football players are making an investment in themselves just like regular students are. either they get to play in the NFL and make a ton of money after college or they get a free education at a school the quality of a UW or Stanford or wherever.

 

the NCAA had made a proposal a while back that i liked, allowing tuition to be paid for a fifth year of school, beyond their athletic eligibility. that's tantamount to getting paid. for all the kids who don't have the time to play football and take engineering classes, now they'll get that extra year to finish up. nevermind that other people are making money off of football programs, i just think about my experience compared to the football players, and they certainly have a lot of advantages already in school compared to what i went through. i couldn't get into UW because of grades, yet Rashard Griffith could barely spell his name and he gets to go. maybe they leave school with a little bit of debt, but it sure isn't the debt that i have because of school. and if a college football player wants to use the school as a springboard to the NFL, then he still has the option of going to Florida and taking "Football 101" classes and not really having to worry about academics. seems like they get a pretty good deal to me.

 

and sure the schools are making a ton of money off of the big sports, but so be it. a school is a business regardless if it's a state school or a private one, and they have to put the football money back into the school to stay competitive. even if that money goes back into athletics instead of academics, that still brings in a lot of regular students.

 

i'd love to see a minor-league football organization set up that could compete with colleges. a player could skip all the academic stuff and go there instead of a school. then they'd be able to play for a few years and get paid before they became eligible for the NFL.

[paul253]

So he'd be getting paid what the market establishes he's worth. And that's a bad thing how?

 

What he's worth to who? He's certainly not worth $25 an hour to the restaurant owner who is paying him. I'd be willing to guess very few people working at restaurants make that kind of money, especially college aged kids who wouldn't be able to work that often. Also think about the $200 "tips" other boosters would leave them.

 

Or, how about they just get rid of stupid age limits for professional sports?

 

The limits were negotiated by the unions and the league. I have no problem with an age limit for football players and wish it were higher for the NBA. I look at the NBA and I see a bunch of money hungry immature kids who are so quick to make the money that they overestimate their talents, drop out of school, and are never heard from again. There was a former player, I wanna say Kwame Brown, who once said he actually threw away his suits after he wore them once because he didn't know how to get them cleaned. Hockey's is actually the best system in my opinion. A player goes to Juniors or college, gets drafted. Then the drafting team can sign him or let him go back to school but they retain his rights for a number of years until the decision is made for him to turn pro. I wish baseball and basketball would go to that kind of system.

[RockCoCougars]

In season, these athletes basically have a full time job, with the expectations of maintaining academic standards. This means that if you are a college football (bowl team) or college basketball player, it's pretty much impossible to get even a part time job to buy Christmas presents for your family.... not to mention pizza/beer money. As far as I know, the NCAA only allowed student athletes to work at all relatively recently- when I went to school, they were forbidden to get jobs. For the guys who generate huge revenue (football, basketball, hockey, etc.), that doesn't seem fair to me. If you are in a 'non revenue' sport, you have nothing to complain about really, but if you are a Heisman candidate, that's got to be a little rough to swallow when ABC/ESPN, etc. are getting fat (not to mention the schools) while you are risking life and limb. Look at the sweetheart deals that the coaches get with all the shoe/camp/endorsement perks.

[dannyjnoonan]

"any stipend that would go to football and baseball players would then have to be given to all athletes, who work just as hard as football players do, but just not in a money-making sport."

 

No they wouldn't. The athletes in the other sports aren't performing a service that is worth as much.

 

"i couldn't get into UW because of grades, yet Rashard Griffith could barely spell his name and he gets to go."

 

Another great reason why minor league sports shouldn't be tied to college in the first place.

 

"What he's worth to who? He's certainly not worth $25 an hour to the restaurant owner who is paying him."

 

Um, then the restaurant owner wouldn't pay him that. And if the restaurant owner would pay him that, then he is worth that much. He's probably worth more to others. The rules that prevent these people from getting paid for something that's so lucrative are so anti-American.

 

"Also think about the $200 "tips" other boosters would leave them."

 

Yes, many of these athletes would benefit from such $200 tips.

 

"The limits were negotiated by the unions and the league."

 

The 18 year olds that would benefit from lowering the age did not get a say, as they were not part of the union at the time. It's obvious age discrimination.

 

"Hockey's is actually the best system in my opinion. A player goes to Juniors or college, gets drafted. Then the drafting team can sign him or let him go back to school but they retain his rights for a number of years until the decision is made for him to turn pro. I wish baseball and basketball would go to that kind of system."

 

I agree. Lots of good stuff about this system.

[paul253]

If you are in a 'non revenue' sport, you have nothing to complain about

really, but if you are a Heisman candidate, that's got to be a little

rough to swallow when ABC/ESPN, etc. are getting fat (not to mention the

schools) while you are risking life and limb. Look at the sweetheart

deals that the coaches get with all the shoe/camp/endorsement perks.

 

If you are a Heisman candidate then you are most likely going to be drafted into the NFL. It's because of the opportunity that the school gave them that they got the chance to win the Heisman and make it to the pros. How many players in the past 20 years have gone onto the NFL without first being given a chance to play college football? Probably close to 0%. Minimum salary for one year in the NFL is something like $340k. That's about equivalent to 6 years of an average paying job that all other athletes have to settle for. I realize the chances of getting drafted by an NFL team are pretty small, but they are higher than a swimmer, track athlete, or volleyball player being drafted.

 

or college basketball player, it's pretty much impossible to get even a

part time job to buy Christmas presents for your family.... not to

mention pizza/beer money

 

They are still way, way better off than they would be otherwise. Assuming they even got into the school, which many of them wouldn't because a lot of football and basketball players are dumber than a box of rocks, they'd have 4 years worth of tuition to pay off. They could work, but changes are pretty slim they'd make more money working than they'd save by being given a scholarship.

[paul253]

Um, then the restaurant owner wouldn't pay him that. And if the restaurant owner would pay him that, then he is worth that much.
Yes, many of these athletes would benefit from such $200 tips.

 

You're entirely missing my point. The owner is not paying him to do the work. The owner is paying him because he wants to reward the player for being an athlete for the school he likes. It has nothing to do with work. It would corrupt the system. If you're going to go that, you may as well just let athletes take free handouts. And this would lead to all sort of recruiting issues. It would be darn near impossible to regulate recruiting and it would become a matter of which school's boosters will give me the most free stuff.

[RockCoCougars]

If you are a Heisman candidate then you are most likely going to be drafted into the NFL.

 

OK, for argument sake, let's change that to the '1,000 yard rusher likely to go undrafted and signed after the draft as a free agent'. I use to be more on your side before the coaches and schools started reaping insane amounts of money from the efforts of some young kids who don't get paid. I'd guess that maybe 2 percent of all NCAA Division 1 football players will make any substantive money from the NFL.

[Point Beer Is Best]

The one thing I'd be ok with is allowing the athletes to get a job, but that may be a slippery slope. Let's say Joe Football wants a job and applies at a local restaurant where the owner is a booster and a huge fan. What prevents him from giving this player $25 an hour and doesn't make him do any work? That could lead to huge recruiting violations. I think those cases would be few and far between but I can definitely see it happening.

 

 

I'm a little confused, since I think this has already happened. I was under the assumption that college players could have summer jobs. That's the kind of scandal that got Rhett Bomar kicked off of OU's football team in 2006. The way you worded your opinion made it sound like this was against the rules.

[brettac1]

So he'd be getting paid what the market establishes he's worth. And that's a bad thing how?

 

What he's worth to who? He's certainly not worth $25 an hour to the restaurant owner who is paying him. I'd be willing to guess very few people working at restaurants make that kind of money, especially college aged kids who wouldn't be able to work that often. Also think about the $200 "tips" other boosters would leave them.

 

Or, how about they just get rid of stupid age limits for professional sports?

 

The limits were negotiated by the unions and the league. I have no problem with an age limit for football players and wish it were higher for the NBA. I look at the NBA and I see a bunch of money hungry immature kids who are so quick to make the money that they overestimate their talents, drop out of school, and are never heard from again. There was a former player, I wanna say Kwame Brown, who once said he actually threw away his suits after he wore them once because he didn't know how to get them cleaned. Hockey's is actually the best system in my opinion. A player goes to Juniors or college, gets drafted. Then the drafting team can sign him or let him go back to school but they retain his rights for a number of years until the decision is made for him to turn pro. I wish baseball and basketball would go to that kind of system.

I really don't care if they are immature. They are of working age and should be able to be compensated for what they can offer. It's not fair to them to force them to go to school (at taxpayer expense, mind you) when they have no interest in doing so. There are plenty of kids who graduate high school and join the work force. I don't understand why when that job is basketball or football, they can't. It is age discrimination, anti-American, etc. If a player is wrong about his ability, it happens. Just like if a guy who would have been a top 5 pick goes to school and blows out his knee could happen. There's no reason people shouldn't be allowed to strike it rich when they have the chance.

[NeedMoreFans]

College athletes can get jobs, but it's not easy. I hired a member of a crew team when I worked in college athletics, and worked with some other revenue-sport athletes, but the work done (and pay) was by the university, which has wage rules for college students. The athletes I worked with worked for the university during the summer...not the school year, but the crew team member worked the whole year. When I hired the crew athlete, I had to fill out paperwork and had to submit it to the athletic department, who had to send it to the NCAA clearinghouse. It took a week or two for her employment to get approved. I had to provide a detailed description of the work done, the wage, and the hours, and she may have had to submit her pay stubs...I don't remember.

 

But, these athletes all worked for the university, so it was a lot more difficult to be paid under the table.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I agree with Jim's assesment.

 

I would like to see instead of a monetary payment that every scholorship athlete regardless of how much money their sport profits gets a set amount of round trip plane tickets in the continental USA. These tickets could be used to go home for Christmas, or their parents to come and see them play. I think there would need to be some rule(hey its the NCAA's) that the tickets can only be used by the student/athlete themselves, a parent, guardian, or grandparent. Approval from the NCAA would be needed for other siblings.

 

Now, I know there will be times that a bunch of players will get together and go to Vegas, but so be it.

 

For instance, a student/athlete gets 4 plane vouchers per school year which can be used one at a time, or to bring their parents in for a game twice a year.

 

 

 

I also think the NCAA should make a rule that does not let the colleges give the physical awards to the players until the player has used all of their eligibility or are leaving school whichever come first. This would eliminate, you Ohio St. from your players selling their rings and such.

[JJHardy7]

The coaches get paid like NFL coaches.

 

On the surface...I really don't think this is true. For example UW head coach makes maybe $2 MM per year? I believe MM in Green Bay is double that (roughly).

 

Anywho...I'm 100% against paying players. They have full rides in college. That isn't cheap. They do get the school attention etc, but once you start paying players you go down the wrong path. Have the past few years in college football proved nothing to us? In the current environment, the NCAA can't regulate. Could you imagine if players got paid?

 

In regard to the age, the NBA requires one year. So be one and done, etc. Most players that do this don't make an impact in the NBA. Again, that is 'most'. The one and done rule is not good for college or pros. I'm open to that changing (i.e. NFL rules).

 

In the NFL, there aren't many guys that after their true freshman or sophomore year would be viable in terms of drafting. We're talking a very small percentage. In the NFL, size does matter.

 

College sports are great for what they represent. I respect what athletes do in college, but they are given a lot. Let's not act like free tuition and room and board is cheap. It's not.

[DHonks]

part of the problem is that many of the players are from nearly broke backgrounds. NCAA regulations say they can't hold jobs during the season and severely limit their out-of-season work (to avoid boosters paying them tons for minimum wage jobs). If I were from a nearly broke background and couldn't take a date out unless it's for free, I would probably feel cheated as well.