Corey Hart is the 99%

[Invader3K]

Here's some humor for you this morning. I saw this on someone's Facebook page, via the blog "LOLBrewers":

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu2bg7oJjF1r4154ao1_500.jpg

[PrinceEatMeat]

LOL, that's good stuff right there. And all very sad too. Hart definitely has gotten overlooked and screwed quite often.

[DuWayne Steurer]

What's interesting to me is that despite Hart finishing in the top 25 out of all OPS qualifiers in MLB the last 2 years at under 10 million per, there's a lot of people who bring him up as a trade candidate pretty regularly.

 

I realize the guy's a hack out in right field, but to get pretty consistent .850-ish production from the guy is a big deal. As I believe Al has said, he'd be one the 1 or 2 best hitters on half of MLB teams.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Definitely agree RoCo, his bat will be especially valuable to us with Fielder gone. Assuming he gets over this not being able to 5th crap. We're gonna need him in a run producing spot in the order going forward.

[RockCoCougars]

Definitely an underrated player here- mostly due to his streakiness, in my opinion. He's a lot like Jenkins in that way. In the end, he signed a very team-friendly deal. I don't think that the Brewers should be trading guys like that when they are productive.

[monty57]

I don't think that the Brewers should be trading guys like that when they are productive.

 

Unless they somehow end up signing Fielder, I think they need to have Hart in the lineup, especially if they go with Green & Gamel starting. After next year, when Hart has one year left on his contract, Gamel & Green will have a year under their belt, and we will have a number of minor league OFs knocking on the door, they will probably at least entertain the thought of trading him.

[TheCrew07]

I don't think that the Brewers should be trading guys like that when they are productive.

 

Unless they somehow end up signing Fielder, I think they need to have Hart in the lineup, especially if they go with Green & Gamel starting.

This is exactly why the Brewers continually get older though. Anytime a player is productive there is a large segment of the posting population here that wants to retain that player.

 

The Brewers should always be breaking in a couple of younger players between the position players, starting rotation, and bullpen. However that shouldn't prevent the GM from taking advantage of a sweet deal if one comes along for a guy who shouldn't be in the organization's long-term plans anyway. For example I'd trade a guy like Axford for a young legit starting pitcher tomorrow if I could. We don't always have to buy MLB talent, it's alright to cycle talented MLB players back into talented prospects as well. I believe that starters > position players > bullpen, so I'll make trade up in value on that scale. In Axford's case I understand he's the best pitcher in the bullpen, but he'll ultimately also be the most expensive and least utilized.

 

In Hart's case he'll be 30 next year, he's likely through his peak as a player, now is the perfect time to sell high on a player like that. I only want to have to players signed through their 30/31 year old seasons, which is why I always advocate trying to lockup a core player early and buy out some FA years, then let someone else overpay for the player for what they've done and not what they are going to do.

 

The difference here I guess is that I don't get attached to any players anymore, just the team. My brother asked me during the post season if there were any Brewer players that I rooted for anymore... I honestly didn't have one guy, Axford was probably the closest, I root hard for all of the guys that come up through the system but I don't single any of them out anymore, I wouldn't buy their jersey or memorbelia, not like when I lived and died with every Sexson or Burnitz AB, or every Hardy/Hart AB when they first came up, or how I loved Cooper, Molitor, and Yount through grade school in the 80s. I just don't have that attachment to individual players like I used to so I'm willing to move anyone for better long-term value.

[tyguy]

Good offensive player, one of the laziest if the not the laziest outfielder's I've ever seen.

[tyguy]

Also what happened to his speed on the bases? I remember a few years ago he was considered the fastest player on the team and always made close plays on ground outs to first. He got LAZY.

[berniebrewer4life]

Also what happened to his speed on the bases? I remember a few years ago he was considered the fastest player on the team and always made close plays on ground outs to first. He got LAZY.

All that money weighs you down.

[monty57]

I don't think that the Brewers should be trading guys like that when they are productive.

 

Unless they somehow end up signing Fielder, I think they need to have Hart in the lineup, especially if they go with Green & Gamel starting.

This is exactly why the Brewers continually get older though. Anytime a player is productive there is a large segment of the posting population here that wants to retain that player.

 

The Brewers should always be breaking in a couple of younger players between the position players, starting rotation, and bullpen. However that shouldn't prevent the GM from taking advantage of a sweet deal if one comes along for a guy who shouldn't be in the organization's long-term plans anyway. For example I'd trade a guy like Axford for a young legit starting pitcher tomorrow if I could. We don't always have to buy MLB talent, it's alright to cycle talented MLB players back into talented prospects as well. I believe that starters > position players > bullpen, so I'll make trade up in value on that scale. In Axford's case I understand he's the best pitcher in the bullpen, but he'll ultimately also be the most expensive and least utilized.

 

In Hart's case he'll be 30 next year, he's likely through his peak as a player, now is the perfect time to sell high on a player like that. I only want to have to players signed through their 30/31 year old seasons, which is why I always advocate trying to lockup a core player early and buy out some FA years, then let someone else overpay for the player for what they've done and not what they are going to do.

 

The difference here I guess is that I don't get attached to any players anymore, just the team. My brother asked me during the post season if there were any Brewer players that I rooted for anymore... I honestly didn't have one guy, Axford was probably the closest, I root hard for all of the guys that come up through the system but I don't single any of them out anymore, I wouldn't buy their jersey or memorbelia, not like when I lived and died with every Sexson or Burnitz AB, or every Hardy/Hart AB when they first came up, or how I loved Cooper, Molitor, and Yount through grade school in the 80s. I just don't have that attachment to individual players like I used to so I'm willing to move anyone for better long-term value.

I'm not disagreeing with you that if someone came along with a tremendous offer for Hart, we should take it. However, I think we should have a good team again next year, and I wouldn't want to see us trade Hart for a couple of good (but not MLB-ready) prospects if it would have a significant negative effect on our offense (and therefore our playoff chances) next season. We can always trade Hart off after next season when some of our "more traditional" corner OF minor leaguers are ready, and when we've seen if Schafer can make it through a season without suffering a major injury. Or, we could trade him mid-season (along with Marcum, Wolf, Greinke if none are extended) if it looks like we're not going to make the playoffs.

 

I agree that a small/mid market team generally needs to start some rookies every year. I was upset at our refusal to bring up a rookie this season when it appeared pretty obvious that Green would be an upgrade over McGehee. That said, there is a lot of risk in having too many rookies playing major roles on a team. I think we should start Gamel & Green next year, and having Braun, Hart, and Weeks in the center of the lineup makes it possible to put Gamel & Green in the bottom of the order. If we were to trade Hart this offseason for some not-MLB-ready prospects, we would either have to go after a FA RF/1B (of which I don't think you are a proponant, and which by nature would be worse than Hart... otherwise why wouldn't our trading partener simply sign the FA) or start another rookie in Schafer or Gindl. There are reasons to believe that neither of these guys are MLB ready, and it would mean that either Gamel or Green would have to bat in the 3-4-5 spot in the lineup. This, of course assumes that we find a SS who can be a leadoff hitter. If not, then Weeks may have to go back to leadoff, and Gamel and Green would have to be the 3 & 5 hitters around Braun. I don't think that's a great option if we're trying to win a playoff spot.

 

Finally, you mention that you believe that starters > position players > bullpen. Next year, we will already have all five of our starting pitchers returning, along with some decent SP prospects in AAA. If we were to trade Hart for a SP, then would we trade a SP for a RF? Or would we trade a SP for minor league SP and go with no MLB-caliber RF? Making all kinds of trades this offseason could lead to a good, younger team, or it could tear up a good team and leave you with a mess.

 

The bottom line is that I'm all for trading Hart, but I don't think this offseason is when it will be done. As I mentioned, if we are somehow able to re-sign Fielder, then I think we should stick Gamel in RF and trade Hart, hopefully for a good, young SS. If we also had to trade Wolf for money reasons, then I would hope we'd get the good young SS and some minor league SP. This scenario just depends of if Attanasio is serious when he says he thinks we have a shot at signing Fielder (which is not something I think we should do).

[TooLiveBrew]

Also what happened to his speed on the bases? I remember a few years ago he was considered the fastest player on the team and always made close plays on ground outs to first. He got LAZY.

It's also simply called aging. Some guys age better than others. Rickie Weeks is a shell of the speedster he used to be, & a fringe-average fielder too, but no one's calling him lazy.

[fondybrewfan]

Also what happened to his speed on the bases? I remember a few years ago he was considered the fastest player on the team and always made close plays on ground outs to first. He got LAZY.

It's also simply called aging. Some guys age better than others. Rickie Weeks is a shell of the speedster he used to be, & a fringe-average fielder too, but no one's calling him lazy.

I am not sure those situations are comparable. Rickie may have lost some speed along the way; but Hart fell off a cliff. He went from running the fast 40 time in camp to being one of the most unathletic guys on the team in 2 years. I don't know if he just bulked up to much or likes to eat to much; but the athleticism just isn't there anymore

 

 

[rluzinski]

The theory is that Hart is too lazy to run hard for 90 feet? I think he gained weight, got older and slower, like pretty much every baseball player.

[burnzy24]

The theory is that Hart is too lazy to run hard for 90 feet? I think he gained weight, got older and slower, like pretty much every baseball player.

He is 29, not 40. Yes its unrealistic for people to believe that he should have the same speed now as he was when he broke in the league, but its astounding how much slower he has gotten for a guy who has had no major knee or ankle injuries. Here is an article from 2007 where it states that Corey had a 6.59 60-yard dash, the fastest on the team. Here is an article from this year where Corey states hopes for a 7.5 yard dash time. This article states that most MLB teams consider a 6.7-6.9 time is that of an average runner in the league. So we are to believe that Corey Hart goes from the fastest man on the team, to a person who is considered far below average 4 years later because of age? In the second article, Hart claims that the difference is because of his gain in weight, but he is 6'6 and 235 which isn't alot for his frame. However, in that 2nd article I posted, Hart seems to admits that he focuses on far more on weight training than speed.

[gregmag]

I think we might reasonably expect aging from 27 to 29 to eviscerate a 6-6 power hitter's speed. Training regimen might be a factor as well, but then again aging may have prompted the change in training regimen. Also, remember that back when Hart was still fast, he wasn't performing very well overall, which creates an incentive to adjust.

 

Hart is a fairly unusual player, in terms of size and skill set. I don't think abrupt, age-driven changes in such a player's skills should surprise us.

[1992casey]

Corey said recently that he lost his speed 20 or 30 pounds ago.

[Invader3K]

I love how everyone on here is suddenly a certified sports trainer or something. Guys do slow down. There isn't some magic age where it can or can't happen. He's gotten a little older and a little bigger. I have never heard anything about Corey Hart being lazy, or anyone claiming he "dogs it" on the field. I remember reading about how after his disappointing '09 season, he busted his butt in the offseason to get in better shape.

 

Regardless, he is a top power RF bat in the NL. Some people forget those types don't grow on trees.

[RockCoCougars]

Regardless, he is a top power RF bat in the NL. Some people forget those types don't grow on trees.

 

I'll take it a step further. Some people forget that power doesn't grow on trees. Take Prince's 35-40 homers a year away and then dump Hart's 25 homers a year in the same off-season? To what ends? It's not as simple as plugging a guy in because he has hit for some power in the minors (Brad Nelson, any other AAA+/AAAA player out there). Are you going to fill the lineup with a bunch of guys just because they have had high OBP? I take it these people didn't endure the mid '80's. If you have no power, you had better have great pitching and steal a ton of bases. Ask the 'guru' Billy Beane, his team hasn't been good since they had power and two-three stud pitchers.

[reillymcshane]

Cory does a fine, fine job. I think that some people just believe his last two years are a mirage or luck or whatever - and want to move him before reverts to 2009 Cory.

 

But Cory has had two straight very good years - enough to show his performance isn't a fluke or luck. He's been essential to the team, and provides the Brewers with needed power.

 

He was tied for 34th in the majors last year in HR, despite missing a month with his injury. He was 29th in OPS.

 

In 2010 he was tied for 14th in HR and was 27th in OPS.

 

Those are pretty good numbers. Who doesn't want a guy who is considered one of the top 15-20% in their field?

 

If you figure there are 8.5 starting position players in all of baseball, that means there are 255 potential full-time positions available each year. Cory's numbers put him in the top 20%, making him a guy we want to hold on to.

 

He doesn't always look pretty in RF, but he does okay.

 

Cory Hart is a good position player with good power. Is he an elite player? No. Does provide elite power? No. But he's good. At age 30, he should provide solid production from RF for the remaining two years of his contract. We don't have anyone like him in the minors who is anywhere near to being ready (unless you move Gamel to RF). He's a goofy looking guy, can be frustrating to watch at times, can be streaky, but he's quite a good player who fills an important role. A platoon of Gindl and Reed Johnson won't come close to producing like Cory does.

[endaround]

The other thing is there is absolutely no reason to move him this year. If Greinke and Marcum move on after 2012, yes trade him. You will also have to consider moving Weeks, Morgan and Gallardo at that time as well. But Gindl can use more time in AAA and Schafer needs to show some power before either is really ready.