2012 Shortstop

[yoshii8]

I think every Brewer site out their will be in full meltdown mode, and for good reason. If he comes back, I could see him getting the Wes Helms treatment on opening day.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yep, it's gonna be pretty bad. It's to the point where I, as well as everyone else, would take anyone but Yuni. Although, it's probably been like that all along.

[reillymcshane]

Why are those the only options? I think trading for a guy like Cliff Pennington, Jason Bartlett or Jed Lowrie to name a few, could also be potential options. I will lose a lot of interest in the team if Yuni and Casey are back. I can't see that happening.

Melvin said they would not be trading for a SS.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/s...s-8r3as3k-135073938.html

 

He essentially said we don't have enough quality assets to make any trades.

 

Of course, that could just be posturing. You never know what happens if you sign someone. And some of those guys - like Bartlett - require taking on a pretty big salary. If the team is comfortable doing that, it makes it a lot easier.

[Oldcity]

Why on earth is a trade out of the question to TH? Yuni cannot be an option.

[Bnowell4evr]

With an Aramis signing looking more likely I wonder if we could fit Jason Bartlett into our budget?

Do you really want Bartlett? He's been pretty bad the last two years (after a great 2009). I really haven't seen him play, so I can't say much about his defense (he's had negative fielding values in UZR the last three years).

 

I think he's due $5.5 million - and a $1.5 million buyout for the following year (or $5.5 million in 2013).

 

At 32, we've probably seen his peak performance. Not against him - I just don't really know much about him.

Compared to Yuni he seems like an all star.

[RockCoCougars]

There are no shortstops to trade for except for fringe types that would likely be no better than Yuni. Ironically the best shortstop traded over the past year was Hardy, and the Orioles got him for almost nothing. Next to the Suppan and Riske signings, the worst blunder of the Melvin regime was completely botching things up with Hardy. I'd love to get the inside story on this whole thing. Please don't give me the whole 'he deserved his demotion' thing either. If that were the case, Florida should have demoted Ramirez last summer.

[brettac1]

I vote for a no cuss filter period in the thread when Yuni signs.

[Bernman23]

With an Aramis signing looking more likely I wonder if we could fit Jason Bartlett into our budget?

Do you really want Bartlett? He's been pretty bad the last two years (after a great 2009). I really haven't seen him play, so I can't say much about his defense (he's had negative fielding values in UZR the last three years).

 

I think he's due $5.5 million - and a $1.5 million buyout for the following year (or $5.5 million in 2013).

 

At 32, we've probably seen his peak performance. Not against him - I just don't really know much about him.

Compared to Yuni he seems like an all star.

His zone rating was decent (vastly superior to Yuni's) and he hasn't had the greatest luck with the parks he's hit in. He's done a solid job of getting on base in past years. He's definitely an upgrade. Yuni was basically a liability in every situation at the plate or field.

 

I think we could afford him at least if the Pads picked up a couple mil of his salary. I'd throw in Narveson and a top 30 or so prospect to make that happen if necessary. Don't know how much the Padres could use those players but maybe we could workout a 3-way if not.

 

One real plus side with him against other options is he's only on a 1-year contract so he wouldn't jeopardize the team's ability to extend Greinke.

[reillymcshane]

I think we could afford him at least if the Pads picked up a couple mil of his salary. I'd throw in Narveson and a top 30 or so prospect to make that happen if necessary. Don't know how much the Padres could use those players but maybe we could workout a 3-way if not.

 

One real plus side with him against other options is he's only on a 1-year contract so he wouldn't jeopardize the team's ability to extend Greinke.

Bartlett is probably more of a giveaway player at this point. Narvy is way too much. The Padres just want to be rid of the $5.5 million salary. You could probably get him for nothing if you take on the salary. He has a $1.5 million buyout on a $5.5 million salary in 2013 - so you're talking $7 million in 2012 if you don't want him beyond. That's not cheap.

[Bernman23]

I think we could afford him at least if the Pads picked up a couple mil of his salary. I'd throw in Narveson and a top 30 or so prospect to make that happen if necessary. Don't know how much the Padres could use those players but maybe we could workout a 3-way if not.

 

One real plus side with him against other options is he's only on a 1-year contract so he wouldn't jeopardize the team's ability to extend Greinke.

Bartlett is probably more of a giveaway player at this point. Narvy is way too much. The Padres just want to be rid of the $5.5 million salary. You could probably get him for nothing if you take on the salary. He has a $1.5 million buyout on a $5.5 million salary in 2013 - so you're talking $7 million in 2012 if you don't want him beyond. That's not cheap.

I know. The point of adding those players to the trade was simply to get them to eat a portion of his salary. As far as Narveson is concerned, I don't think he has much value for us. He wouldn't help us in the playoffs, Peralta might surpass him in the rotation, and Estrada and Parra would be insurance in the pen.

[CheezWizHed]

As far as Narveson is concerned, I don't think he has much value for us.

 

Ouch. I've never been high on Narvy, but come on. He is a good 5th SP. In years past, he would have been a #3 or 4 on our team. If Peralta beats him out, then you put Narvy in the pen and use him as the 6th SP (which I doubt happens). He is no great shakes, but SPs don't just grow on trees.

 

If you're going to trade him, get something decent in return at least...

[craigharmann]

I vote for a no cuss filter period in the thread when Yuni signs.

Seconded

[chadomac]

I got this second hand, so it's still just a rumor I guess, but I've read posts of people claiming that MLB Network is reporting that Rollins and the Phillies have a deal in place.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I got this second hand, so it's still just a rumor I guess, but I've read posts of people claiming that MLB Network is reporting that Rollins and the Phillies have a deal in place.

This was heavily reported earlier today, and later denied. It's speculated to be true though.

[brewmann04]

The tweets that are coming out is the Brewers have 3 choices ( Furcal,Yuni,Alex)

[MNBrew]

There are no shortstops to trade for except for fringe types that would likely be no better than Yuni. Ironically the best shortstop traded over the past year was Hardy, and the Orioles got him for almost nothing. Next to the Suppan and Riske signings, the worst blunder of the Melvin regime was completely botching things up with Hardy. I'd love to get the inside story on this whole thing. Please don't give me the whole 'he deserved his demotion' thing either. If that were the case, Florida should have demoted Ramirez last summer.

Is this a case of revisionist perspective? Have you forgotten how completely terribly Hardy was playing in '09 prior to that demotion? It was 2 months overdue and everyone around here knew it. He'd been very blah in '08 AND missed half of '10 with the Twins as well, with his '10 bat very much resembling his '08 & '09 bat.

 

There was no good way to project, after 3 BAD years, that Hardy would rediscover his All-Star form like he did this in '11 with Baltimore.

 

Heck, people are clamoring for McGehee to be run out of town after 1 lousy year. Hardy was far less productive -- and for much longer -- and, even when he was in his top form, his RISP often was surprisingly poor.

[Warning Track Power]

There are no shortstops to trade for except for fringe types that would likely be no better than Yuni. Ironically the best shortstop traded over the past year was Hardy, and the Orioles got him for almost nothing. Next to the Suppan and Riske signings, the worst blunder of the Melvin regime was completely botching things up with Hardy. I'd love to get the inside story on this whole thing. Please don't give me the whole 'he deserved his demotion' thing either. If that were the case, Florida should have demoted Ramirez last summer.

Is this a case of revisionist perspective? Have you forgotten how completely terribly Hardy was playing in '09 prior to that demotion? It was 2 months overdue and everyone around here knew it. He'd been very blah in '08 AND missed half of '10 with the Twins as well, with his '10 bat very much resembling his '08 & '09 bat.

 

There was no good way to project, after 3 BAD years, that Hardy would rediscover his All-Star form like he did this in '11 with Baltimore.

 

Heck, people are clamoring for McGehee to be run out of town after 1 lousy year. Hardy was far less productive -- and for much longer -- and, even when he was in his top form, his RISP often was surprisingly poor.

Actually I believe you are the one with revisionist history. Hardy was an All-Star in 2007, had an equally solid 2008 and struggled in 2009. Your definition of a "very blah SS in 2008"is one that hit .283/.343/.821 and was above average defensively? Hardy was bad for 3/4 of a season on offense, but still played an above average SS and was run out of town. McGehee was awful for one full season both with the bat and the glove. AWFUL. And McGehee has always been awful with the glove. It's baffling to me that Melvin is more than willing to keep running McGehee out there in 2012 (and possibly Yuni) when Hardy was at least equally productive with the bat and far superior with the glove. As a fan, this is upsetting.

 

Now I am not saying McGehee won't turn it around, but you are accusing RockCo of revisionist history when you are doing the exact same thing.

[RockCoCougars]

There are no shortstops to trade for except for fringe types that would likely be no better than Yuni. Ironically the best shortstop traded over the past year was Hardy, and the Orioles got him for almost nothing. Next to the Suppan and Riske signings, the worst blunder of the Melvin regime was completely botching things up with Hardy. I'd love to get the inside story on this whole thing. Please don't give me the whole 'he deserved his demotion' thing either. If that were the case, Florida should have demoted Ramirez last summer.

Is this a case of revisionist perspective? Have you forgotten how completely terribly Hardy was playing in '09 prior to that demotion? It was 2 months overdue and everyone around here knew it. He'd been very blah in '08 AND missed half of '10 with the Twins as well, with his '10 bat very much resembling his '08 & '09 bat.

 

There was no good way to project, after 3 BAD years, that Hardy would rediscover his All-Star form like he did this in '11 with Baltimore.

Absolutely not. I was on here ripping the demotion the day it happened. It was obviously a vindictive move by the Brewers to mess with Hardy's service time, and increase his trade value (which backfired). Hardy and Hall were the scapegoats for the failure of 2009.

 

At any rate, Hardy was probably the best defensive SS the Brewers have had since I've been watching the team. A solid player based on his defense alone. He was a streaky hitter, but was off two twenty plus homer seasons. Now we are discussing which no hit, no glove guy to sign.

[logan82]

Actually I believe you are the one with revisionist history. Hardy was an All-Star in 2007, had an equally solid 2008 and struggled in 2009. Your definition of a "very blah SS in 2008"is one that hit .283/.343/.821 and was above average defensively? Hardy was bad for 3/4 of a season on offense, but still played an above average SS and was run out of town. McGehee was awful for one full season both with the bat and the glove. AWFUL. And McGehee has always been awful with the glove. It's baffling to me that Melvin is more than willing to keep running McGehee out there in 2012 (and possibly Yuni) when Hardy was at least equally productive with the bat and far superior with the glove. As a fan, this is upsetting.

I would say the McGehee situation in 2011 was very similar to the Hardy situation in 2009. We were kind of stuck with Yuni until Hairston was brought in though.

[MNBrew]

Warning Track Power]

There are no shortstops to trade for except for fringe types that would likely be no better than Yuni. Ironically the best shortstop traded over the past year was Hardy, and the Orioles got him for almost nothing. Next to the Suppan and Riske signings, the worst blunder of the Melvin regime was completely botching things up with Hardy. I'd love to get the inside story on this whole thing. Please don't give me the whole 'he deserved his demotion' thing either. If that were the case, Florida should have demoted Ramirez last summer.

Is this a case of revisionist perspective? Have you forgotten how completely terribly Hardy was playing in '09 prior to that demotion? It was 2 months overdue and everyone around here knew it. He'd been very blah in '08 AND missed half of '10 with the Twins as well, with his '10 bat very much resembling his '08 & '09 bat.

 

There was no good way to project, after 3 BAD years, that Hardy would rediscover his All-Star form like he did this in '11 with Baltimore.

 

Heck, people are clamoring for McGehee to be run out of town after 1 lousy year. Hardy was far less productive -- and for much longer -- and, even when he was in his top form, his RISP often was surprisingly poor.

Actually I believe you are the one with revisionist history. Hardy was an All-Star in 2007, had an equally solid 2008 and struggled in 2009. Your definition of a "very blah SS in 2008"is one that hit .283/.343/.821 and was above average defensively? Hardy was bad for 3/4 of a season on offense, but still played an above average SS and was run out of town. McGehee was awful for one full season both with the bat and the glove. AWFUL. And McGehee has always been awful with the glove. It's baffling to me that Melvin is more than willing to keep running McGehee out there in 2012 (and possibly Yuni) when Hardy was at least equally productive with the bat and far superior with the glove. As a fan, this is upsetting.

 

Now I am not saying McGehee won't turn it around, but you are accusing RockCo of revisionist history when you are doing the exact same thing.

I stand corrected on 2008. I was off by a year & thought I remembered another down year after his two stud years. However...

 

- Hardy was lousy for 3/4 of a season and didn't play the last 1/4. That means he was lousy for HIS WHOLE season. He didn't have a good 1/4 of the season, and...

- McGehee did. That means he was lousy for roughly the same 3/4 of a season Hardy was in '09, not the WHOLE season you're saying, and still actually was GOOD 1/4 of the season (and wasn't his April respectable?).

 

RockCo, Hardy and Hall weren't made into scapegoats for 2009. They were lousy, just like much of the rest of the team (Bush, Parra, Suppan, Looper, Kendall, Cameron (50/50 on him), Hart (shaky + injured), Gerut, Villanueva, McClung, Mike Burns, etc.).

 

Anyway, to get back to the thread topic...

 

However unlikely, I sure would love to see Melvin defy the odds & pull a Jimmy Rollins rabbit out of the hat. I'm not a total Yuni hater, so I wouldn't be as out of sorts as most on here if he were back for '12, but I'd still be rather disappointed that that's the best we could do in any sort of reasonable financial way. I'm still hoping they'd offer a 4-year deal to Rollins w/ a high-AB-in-the-4th-year-based 5th year vesting option.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Melvin doesn't recognize how much better a fit Alex Gonzalez is than Betancourt... I think that'll seal the deal for my opinion of him going from 'full support' to 'time to move on'. This shift hasn't been a short process, more like long & agonizing, but still.

 

Time to make Alex Gonzalez the Brewers' next priority, DM. Going off DM's comments about Betancourt right after the Greinke trade... 'Hey Doug! Alex Gonzalez hit more HR than Betancourt did in 2011 -- he's clearly more valuable!'

[seattlebrew]

Some guy with insider info on JSO blog is reporting that brewers have signed gonzalez. Will be announced later today. You never know about JSO posters but we'll see. I hope this is true.

[Invader3K]

Some guy with insider info on JSO blog is reporting that brewers have signed gonzalez. Will be announced later today. You never know about JSO posters but we'll see. I hope this is true.

They've had a couple that have been correct in the past about stuff like this, so we'll see. A lot of it tends to be, "My brother's friend's cousin is a ticket sales person", type stuff, though.

[TooLiveBrew]

Oh don't you go getting my hopes up. Now I really hope this is true.

[chadomac]

Can someone explain to me how Gonzalez is better than Yuni?