2012 Shortstop

[bucksman4]

Disastrous. If Melvin brings Betancourt back, it's another season of clawing my eyes out with his free-swinging, don't bend over or dive defense.

 

The worst part is...I'd question Melvin's baseball knowledge if he resigns him...did he not watch the same player as we all did this year?

[Bombers]

bucksman4[/b]]Disastrous. If Melvin brings Betancourt back, it's another season of clawing my eyes out with his free-swinging, don't bend over or dive defense.

 

The worst part is...I'd question Melvin's baseball knowledge if he resigns him...did he not watch the same player as we all did this year?

But he was 2nd in the league for RBI's

I agree with you though ... It would be disastrous. He is a mold of the same player we already have a lot of; doesn't play defense well (or really at all) ... hits a low average and a little bit of power (at least for his position) ... Doesn't run the bases well. Thinking about this more, I would be pretty pissed if we bring Yuni back. I just don't want him. #1 on my SS list is one who plays good defense. And not just the routine balls hit his way. I want a guy with some range and who will actualy dive for a ball.

[markedman5]

Brewers meeting with Barmes's agent on Weds per Mccalvy

[Invader3K]

Sounds like Melvin is keeping his options open. Recent comments on Twitter state that the Brewers are looking at shortstop options in Reyes, Furcal, Barmes, and yes, Betancourt.

[TooLiveBrew]

Posting fees never seem like a good idea to me, unless you get the player at a discounted salary.

[sveumrules]

I really hope that they don't decide to bring back Yuni just because I would like to be able to continue visiting Brewerfan over the course of the next year.

[bucksman4]

Bombers- I fear that line of yours in blue may actually be one of Melvin's first talking points in his press conference announcing the Betancourt signing. He loves citing RBI, BA, and HR to highlight players attributes he just signed.

[Dollarbill13]

Posting fees never seem like a good idea to me, unless you get the player at a discounted salary.

You should get him at somewhat of a discounted salary. Once you win the posting, you'd be his only option to sign with and you get the posting fee back if you can't agree to terms. That being said, there's been a lot of "can't-miss" Japanese players who have come over in recent years who have failed to live up to their hype.

[JohnBriggs12]

I love reading you Yuni haters react and how you almost get mad when he does well. I know it bothered you that he hit so well in the postseason.

 

My solution for you guys is to get over it. Embrace him. He's a decent bat down in the lineup. He won't walk much but he'll make contact, hit with some pop and knock in a few runs. He's no gold glover but he's not the 2nd coming of Jose Valentin either. There's no big gap between him and the guys being mentioned. You don't over pay for guys on that level. Barmes and Furcal aren't worth big contracts. If Yuni's the most cost effective, they should go with him. He's at least still in his prime. With a full year in the NL under his belt, he'll hit in the .270 range with 15 or so HR.

 

I'd rather they sign Reyes myself. But if there not going to seriously upgrade, get the guy who is cost effective and younger.

[Bnowell4evr]

I love reading you Yuni haters react and how you almost get mad when he does well. I know it bothered you that he hit so well in the postseason.

 

My solution for you guys is to get over it. Embrace him. He's a decent bat down in the lineup. He won't walk much but he'll make contact, hit with some pop and knock in a few runs. He's no gold glover but he's not the 2nd coming of Jose Valentin either. There's no big gap between him and the guys being mentioned. You don't over pay for guys on that level. Barmes and Furcal aren't worth big contracts. If Yuni's the most cost effective, they should go with him. He's at least still in his prime. With a full year in the NL under his belt, he'll hit in the .270 range with 15 or so HR.

 

I'd rather they sign Reyes myself. But if there not going to seriously upgrade, get the guy who is cost effective and younger.

I think you meant he'll have an OBP in the .270 range

[ramssuperbowl99]

He's a decent bat down in the lineup.

He's no gold glover but he's not the 2nd coming of Jose Valentin either. There's no big gap between him and the guys being mentioned.

He's at least still in his prime.

1. He's a terrible hitter.

2. He's a terrible defender.

3. Yuni doesn't have a prime. There might be a period on his aging curve where he sucks marginally less than the rest of his career, but that is not a "prime".

[NievesNoNO]

Yuni's two step range at SS is unacceptable to me. He hits OK but not enough to make up for his weak OBP and horrid range. Reyes price will be steeper than what the Brewers should be willing to pay and the same for Rollins. I also don't really want Furcal unless he's coming cheap as he's as much of an injury risk as Reyes is. MLB shortstops are alot like NFL running backs. They have a shorter shelf-life and when they lose their legs their not very useful anymore. I'd like Barmes, Gonzalez, and Santiago over the cost of bringing in Reyes, Rollins, or Furcal.

[billyjohnston77]

What about Maicer Izturis from LAA? He's a backup 3rd baseman, SS and 2nd to Wood, Aybar and Kendrick?

 

He signed a 3 yr/10 Mil deal before 2010. Plays solid D and good OBP.

[RockCoCougars]

If you guys want a 'rangy' shortstop, I think Barmes is the man. He's better defensively than Reyes, that's for sure- though he doesn't hit as well as Yuni. The issue is that he's going to be looking for probably a 3 year deal for $4-5 million per.

[NievesNoNO]

If you guys want a 'rangy' shortstop, I think Barmes is the man. He's better defensively than Reyes, that's for sure- though he doesn't hit as well as Yuni. The issue is that he's going to be looking for probably a 3 year deal for $4-5 million per.

If you believe that his defensive stats are a good indicator of his ability (I really haven't seen him play all that much) then I think that's a fair deal for a team that needs a shortstop. I'm kind of in the mindset that trying to replace Fielder's bat is a no win situation and they should focus rather on defense to try and negate the loss. Get a good defensive SS and 3B and trust that Braun, Weeks, Hart, and Gamel will do enough offensively. To me there seems like there's more risk in shelling out big bucks to try and get offense than there would be to get solid defense.

[RockCoCougars]

From what I've seen on the highlight reel and watching him a bit, it would be tough to top Barmes' range. I haven't seen as much of Reyes, but the defensive stats would indicate that his range is closer to Yuni than it is to Barmes.

[nate82]

I haven't seen as much of Reyes, but the defensive stats would indicate that his range is closer to Yuni than it is to Barmes.

What are you smoking because I want some of that. Reyes has great range at SS and comparing Reyes to Yuni is like comparing a Yugo to a Mercedes Benz yes they are both cars but that is where the comparisons end. When Reyes has been healthy he has great range. I would rather take Reyes as he brings in more value than Barmes even at a higher price tag. I just don't believe Barmes is going to hit at all and while his defense is nice I would prefer to have someone like Reyes. Also I believe that Barmes is going to cost to much compared to the production you will get from him.

[Baldkin]

I haven't seen as much of Reyes, but the defensive stats would indicate that his range is closer to Yuni than it is to Barmes.

What are you smoking because I want some of that. Reyes has great range at SS and comparing Reyes to Yuni is like comparing a Yugo to a Mercedes Benz yes they are both cars but that is where the comparisons end. When Reyes has been healthy he has great range. I would rather take Reyes as he brings in more value than Barmes even at a higher price tag. I just don't believe Barmes is going to hit at all and while his defense is nice I would prefer to have someone like Reyes. Also I believe that Barmes is going to cost to much compared to the production you will get from him.

UZR/150 2010, 2011:

Yuni: -9.2, -7.4

Reyes: -5.7, -3.6

Barmes: 14.9, 10.8

 

Reyes is a lot closer to Yuni than he is to Barmes defensively. Reyes is likely to cost 4 to 5x as much as Barmes, and there is no way he gives 4 to 5x the production. Not to mention, you'll have to sign him for 6 years.... not two.

[PrinceFielderx1]

DM is doing his diligence by checking in on all FA SS's out there Barnes, Rollins, Reyes etc..

 

#[/s]Brewers GM Doug Melvin will continue to do his dilligence on SS market by talking to agent Dan Lozano, who represents Jimmy Rollins. Per Tom H

 

#[/s]Brewers GM Doug Melvin meeting now with Barry Meister, agent for SS Clint Barmes. per Tom H

[nate82]

UZR/150 2010, 2011:

Yuni: -9.2, -7.4

Reyes: -5.7, -3.6

Barmes: 14.9, 10.8

This is very misleading.

Barmes in 2010 only played 361 innings at SS that UZR/150 is inflated so you can throw that one out. Reyes has just come off injury the last two years if you want to see Reyes true talent at SS you would have to go back to 2006 and 2007 where he had a UZR/150 of 5.7 and 11.6. This is Barmes 2nd season playing as the primary SS so you have to look at his years playing mostly as a SS to use the UZR/150 which are in 2011 at 10.8 and in 2006 at 9.4. You should really look at everything before quoting UZR/150 especially when you have a small sample size for the first year in 2010 and you also need to look at if the player was coming off an injury or was playing hurt.

Reyes will give the Brewers about 2-3 times as much worth than Barmes and Barmes is not going to be signed for two years at a minimum he is going to get 3 years at $5-6m annually I wouldn't be surprised if he got a 4-year deal around $25-28m. At that price and the length of the contract he is actually a worse signing than Reyes even though Reyes will cost more.

[brewtank34]

Per TH...

#[/s]Brewers GM Doug Melvin keeps saying that Betancourt is better than his critics say. Makes me think Yuni is coming back as starting SS.

 

Still very early, but something tells me that TH is wrong as usual.

[GoudaBrew]

Per TH...

#[/s]Brewers GM Doug Melvin keeps saying that Betancourt is better than his critics say. Makes me think Yuni is coming back as starting SS.

 

Still very early, but something tells me that TH is wrong as usual.

I agree. Unless it comes down to money and he just can't afford to spend any (I think Yuni will be lucky to get 1 year, $2M), I think we'll end up either Reyes, Rollins, Furcal or Barmes. I'd be disappointed if we didn't get one of those guys really (more likely to be Furcal or Barmes). DM has made SS a priority to start the hot stove season so I think he finds an upgrade there. I don't think we've heard any Bartlett rumors yet, but that wouldn't surprise me either.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Per TH...

#[/s]Brewers GM Doug Melvin keeps saying that Betancourt is better than his critics say. Makes me think Yuni is coming back as starting SS.

 

Still very early, but something tells me that TH is wrong as usual.

The Brewers could have already re-signed Betancourt if they wanted too. Betancourt wanted to come back (very interested), but the Brewers decided to see what else was out there and upgrade the SS position (find someone better than Betancourt). The Brewers know that many if not all of the SS out their (Reyes, Rollins, Barnes, Furcal etc..) will be an upgrade over Betancourt which is why they are talking with their agents right now and not Betancourts. I don't see Betancourt coming back at all.

 

Just added to the blog post -- Melvin

said Betancourt is "very interested" in coming back. It was the #Brewers

who wanted to test SS market.

McCalvy tweet.

[NievesNoNO]

UZR/150 2010, 2011:

Yuni: -9.2, -7.4

Reyes: -5.7, -3.6

Barmes: 14.9, 10.8

This is very misleading.

Barmes in 2010 only played 361 innings at SS that UZR/150 is inflated so you can throw that one out. Reyes has just come off injury the last two years if you want to see Reyes true talent at SS you would have to go back to 2006 and 2007 where he had a UZR/150 of 5.7 and 11.6. This is Barmes 2nd season playing as the primary SS so you have to look at his years playing mostly as a SS to use the UZR/150 which are in 2011 at 10.8 and in 2006 at 9.4. You should really look at everything before quoting UZR/150 especially when you have a small sample size for the first year in 2010 and you also need to look at if the player was coming off an injury or was playing hurt.

Reyes will give the Brewers about 2-3 times as much worth than Barmes and Barmes is not going to be signed for two years at a minimum he is going to get 3 years at $5-6m annually I wouldn't be surprised if he got a 4-year deal around $25-28m. At that price and the length of the contract he is actually a worse signing than Reyes even though Reyes will cost more.

Reyes' UZR/150 of 5.7 and 11.6 also came when his legs/body were 4-5 years younger and as you said before injury, so to say that's his true talent level now is also misleading. Don't get me wrong I'd love Reyes for the next few years but paying 15-20 million to the guy at age 34-35 who already is having leg issues is risky. I doubt Barmes gets 4 years but I could be wrong.

[dpapo]

Wouldn't surprise me if the Brewers resigned Betancourt. Don't think he's their first option, just depends on what the free agent shortstops are asking and if they end up either signing or trading for a first baseman or even possible a third basemen with McGehee being moved to first.

If I had to guess on who will end up playing short for the Brewers next year, right now would be Furcal first, then Barmes, then Yuni, Reyes and finally Rollins, which of course means it will be Rollins. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Will say Rollins seems like the kind of player Melvin likes. Someone who can hit some home runs, steal a few bases and wouldn't mind that Rollins has a low OBP. And I haven't notice a lot of rumors about teams talking to or interested in Rollins.

Of course, could end up being someone no one is talking about. Melvin did say he doesn't like to tip his hand and yet there are all these reports on agents he is talking to and about.