2012 Shortstop

[TooLiveBrew]

Figured the many possibilities at this position warranted a standalone thread, independent of speculation on Reyes. Clint Barmes (type B) & Ramon Santiago are the (seemingly) likely candidates if the Brewers act via free agency. However, what about some other ideas?

I think the Nationals would be a worthwhile organization to explore, as they have Ian Desmond & Danny Espinosa on the big-league club, with Anthony Rendon ('11 #6 overall pick) being cast as a second baseman due to the presence of Ryan Zimmerman. I admit I don't know much about either Desmond's or Espinosa's defense. Going off his hitting & fielding stats, Desmond wouldn't be much of an upgrade over Betancourt, unless someone expected him to improve at the plate. I don't know if Espinosa has played 2B for the Nats because they view Desmond as the superior fielder, or because Espinosa doesn't have the arm for short. Desmond & Espinosa are both still easily pre-arby, in terms of their salaries.

The Marlins may be willing to deal Omar Infante, although they did just extend him through 2013 ($4M/yr).

Alexei Ramirez is a name that's popped up before in connection with Brewers trade rumors, and still probably makes sense to look at. Prior to this past season, he signed an extension with the White Sox that runs through 2015 ('16 club option). He doesn't get too expensive until 2014. He has an excellent reputation as a defender, & can handle the bat. This is probably my favorite candidate, though I'm not sure how realistic the idea is.

Jack Wilson is a free agent; after the '09 season he signed a 2-yr/$10M extension with Seattle. Mariner Brendan Ryan is also a trade candidate, set to make $1.75M next season. Ryan would be my pick if the Brewers were interested in being very tight with the purse-strings, since (like Wilson) he's such a good defender.

Rafael Furcal (type B) & Alex Gonzalez (type B) are also free agents.

Given the contracts signed by Wilson & Infante, the market value of an average-ish FA shortstop is somewhere around $4-5M AAV.

Do any of these candidates appeal to you? If not, what are some other players you think the Brewers should look at for shortstop in 2012 and beyond?

Sources:

Cot's Baseball Contracts

MLBTradeRumors

FanGraphs

[endaround]

Nick Punto and Hairston both could play about 100-120 games at SS and either should have been signed last offseason.

[RockCoCougars]

I'd prefer Furcal and Barmes in that order with Hairston and Jack Wilson signed to replace Counsell and Josh Wilson- not sure what will happen at third and first at this point, but that shouldn't preclude the Brewers from signing some bench guys.

[NievesNoNO]

Not including Reyes I'd like Barmes and Gonzalez as free agents. I want nothing to do with Furcal. I like Brendan Ryan in a trade. I also think Jason Donald would be an interesting guy if they wanted to be a bit unconventional For beyond 2012, the Orioles seem to actually have a surplus of shortstops although they could easily move guys around. With Hardy signed to an extension and Manny Machado not far behind I'd take a look at seeing if they could get Jon Schoop or Mychal Givens out of their system for 2013 and beyond.

[KCBrewerfan34]

What about Bloomquist?

[yoshii8]

No thanks to Jack Wilson, he looked terrible when I saw him play w/ the Braves last season. It baffles me that his name even gets brought up anymore. I'd much rather sign a guy like Ronny Cedeno than him.

 

Of the guys you said, Jose Reyes is so far above and beyond all of them on my list. Other than that I would like Alexei Ramirez, and wouldn't hate getting either Alex Gonzales, Rafeal Furcal, Clint Barmes or trading for Jed Lowrie.

[Hate those Rodents]

I agree on Reyes if the price is right. After that, try and get Jed Lowrie from the Red Sox. They don't need him and it probably wouldn't cost a ton to get him. Maybe a bullpen arm like McClendon. Lowrie is much ahead of the others from that list in my book. If those two fail, try and work a trade with the Whitesox for Ramirez or Escobar. If that fails, try and work a trade for Ian Desmond of the Nationals. He's a great buy low opportunity. If that fails, then we can sign everyone's savior: Clint Barmes.

[JohnBriggs12]

The White Sox are not trading Ramirez. Escobar isn't ready for major league pitching. He'd hit .225/.275/.325 playing full time in the major leagues.

 

Forget Jack Wilson. Ryan isn't bad but he's not much different than FA trio of Betancourt, Cedeno, or Barmes, so why give up a player to get him? Gonzales had as bad an OBP as Betancourt last year and he's 5 years older. I'm passing.

 

I'm not sure about Lowrie. He's potentiallya better than average offensive SS, but shaky with the glove. It would depend on what you'd have to give up.

 

I think the Twins plan on going hard after Barmes. He fits their profile and they are desperate. That will drive his price beyond what a 33 year old SS with a .230 BA away from Coors is worth.

 

The Brewers could decide they could squeeze a year out of 38 year old Jamey Carroll and re-sign Hairston to basically split the SS and utility position. Both were pretty productive last year and that might work as both can hit 2nd in the order.

 

Otherwise, I see either Betancourt or Cedeno at SS on opening day.

 

Of course all this presumes they don't go out and sign Reyes.

[kramnoj]

Nick Punto and Hairston both could play about 100-120 games at SS and either should have been signed last offseason.

I think your definition of could is a bit broad. Punto has started a total of 234 games at SS over the course of his career. He's only played in 120 games in 3 seasons. It would not have been a good bet that he could have done that at age 33 and do so all at SS.

[danzig6767]

The other question is which teams besides the Brewers badly need a shortstop?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Teams that need a SS would be the Brewers, Cardinals (will likely keep Furcal), Giants, Nationals (could keep Desmond), Mets, Braves (could keep Gonzalez), Phillies (likely to keep Rollins), Mariners, Tigers (if they move Peralta to 3B), and then I guess you can't rule out the Red Sox.

The Giants are said to be more concerned about CF, so likely won't pay big for a SS like Reyes. I don't see the Mets being able to keep Reyes. Therefore, the true competition for Reyes would be the Mariners and Tigers in my opinion. With the Nationals being an outside possibility, as well as the Phillies if they somehow lose Rollins.

[bucksbeat]

If you're talking trade partners let's have a talk with the Padres about Jason Bartlett or the Angels about their trio of infielders (Izturis, Aybar, Callaspo).

[KCBrewerfan34]

You could probably add Minnesota to the SS need list

[endaround]

Nick Punto and Hairston both could play about 100-120 games at SS and either should have been signed last offseason.

I think your definition of could is a bit broad. Punto has started a total of 234 games at SS over the course of his career. He's only played in 120 games in 3 seasons. It would not have been a good bet that he could have done that at age 33 and do so all at SS.

The fact the Twins consistently played Punto at the wrong position doesn't mean that much.

[kramnoj]

Nick Punto and Hairston both could play about 100-120 games at SS and either should have been signed last offseason.

I think your definition of could is a bit broad. Punto has started a total of 234 games at SS over the course of his career. He's only played in 120 games in 3 seasons. It would not have been a good bet that he could have done that at age 33 and do so all at SS.

The fact the Twins consistently played Punto at the wrong position doesn't mean that much.

And the fact that he didn't regularly reach the level of total games played that you advocate? You didn't address that.

 

In 2 of the 3 seasons that he has played the most games, he has had two of his worst offensive seasons. His two best seasons by OPS+ were when he played less than 100 games. There isn't much reason to expect him to both play a lot and be at his best in the same season.

[RockCoCougars]

Nick Punto as a starter? Pass. He's old and a poor hitter. Yuni nearly had one fewer home run last season than this guy has in his career. I know that some put a huge value on OBP, but his career OBP is nearly higher than his career SLG.... a career SLG of .327? He had better play SS like Ozzie Smith in 1983 to justify that. Punto is the only option that I have seen that is actually worse than Jamey Carroll. I'd rather bring Yuni back, or even find a good glove, no hit SS buried in someone's system and tell them to never swing at the plate unless they have either a 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 or 2-2 count against them.

[yoshii8]

A guy I would target is Cliff Pennington from the A's to be our ss for the next couple seasons, apparantly everybody on the A's is available.. His career OPS is 84 points higher on the road, although his ss defense is a little questionable, but I'm sure still better than Yuni's.

[RWeeksFan23]

Either sign Clint Barmes, or trade Randy Wolf to WAS for Ian Desmond.

[brewmann04]

Why would you Trade wolf for a SS washington don't really want.

[chickinbrickin]

If the Brewers can't sign Reyes I think Barmes is the best option. I could care less about his BA away from Coors because he has a good glove.

[madrx]

Looking at the list, I think anyone with a solid glove becomes an option. Reyes is the only available player who is truly a difference maker, and at the required price may not be an option. I agree with the idea that someone like Barmes who has a good glove is acceptable. In looking at Boston's roster at Lowrie, would Mike Aviles be an option? Not a great year last year between KC and Boston, but has had some decent OBP years and has been a decent glove. He'll be 32, but most of the options are this age. He only made 640k last year, so he may be a cheap utility option if not a starting SS.

[PilprinBuddha]

I prefer Jack Wilson to Barmes.

[nate82]

I prefer Jack Wilson to Barmes.

Yuck Jack Wilson. He hasn't been good for a long time now. Jack Wilson is just a better fielding Betancourt without the power. Wilson's slash line .243/.274/.285. If Yuni is a bad SS what does that make Wilson? Plus Wilson is going to be in his mid 30's and he is declining I will pass on Wilson 100% of the time. I would only consider Wilson if he were to be a replacement for Counsell and there are better players out there who will do better offensively than Wilson. Barmes is 100 times better offensively as Wilson and just about his equal defensively. I see no reason why the Brewers should even think about giving Wilson a contract.

[PilprinBuddha]

I prefer Jason Bartlett to Barmes too, but not sure if he is a FA or not. Just looked...it appears he has a mutual option that has been exercised....so he is not a FA.

 

I'm not saying that I don't want Barmes, I just like a coupe of others a little better.

 

Jack Wilson's toughness and experience I think would be valuable if Green is at 3b.

[MNBrew]

Wilson vs. Barmes, Barmes vs. Bartlett, Bartlett vs. Betancourt, and so on. This is all a bunch of debating which rusty, crappy old car is better than the other rusty, crappy old cars on the used car lot.

 

It seems to me that outside of Jose Reyes, with any FA shortstop we're talking a B- player or lower. I'm not walking WAR, league average, or any of that. Looking at them in terms of a simple but broad glance - in terms of being a solid offensive player and a solid defensive player -- not just relative to other SS's or other FA SS's -- most of the guys out there are NOT complete players, ergo not the sort of players that merit getting truly excited about. For all of them, there are very notable flaws in one or more facets of their games.

 

I think you have to start with your sights set high. I know it's not very realistic, but I want Jose Reyes. You have to aim for the big fish. Who else with a skill set like that is 1) coming up in the Brewers' system, or 2) likely to be available to acquire at a reasonable cost in the foreseeable future. If the Brewers don't get Reyes, at minimum I'm hoping Melvin would trade for a nicely solid SS. If Prince is gone, we have at least a bit of money available, though exactly how much is not known, but that can help toward an upgrade.

 

The Brewers have reasonable alternatives at every other position. I'm really hoping they can pull off a significant upgrade at SS. Otherwise, if they're faced with Barmes or Wilson or Betancourt or Counsell or any of the other varyingly unattractive options out there, it just comes down to choosing which player's combination of strengths and weaknesses is most appealing relative to the others and then living with that choice and the in-some-way lacking skill set that comes with it.