Brewers decline option on RP Francisco Rodriguez and SS Yuniesky Betancourt

[bucksman4]

I have a hard time believing Melvin will bring Yuni back. He sat there and watched his "swing at the first pitch" approach and total lack of range (or willingness to dive for a ball at SS) and I am sure he was as frustrated as many of us...even though he will save face and praise him with empty words. He won't be back with MIL.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Could Betancourt be a good 3B? It wouldn't require as much range as SS (which he doesn't show), but does require a strong arm (which he has) and good hands (he is "Mr. Golden Hands"). Not saying that Betancourt should be an option in Milwaukee at 3B, but perhaps for another team.

Skillset-wise, he's a third baseman. He'd actually probably defend pretty well there.

If dude would TAKE A WALK once in a while, and hit with just a little more power, he'd MAYBE be capable of a .730-ish OPS, and even then, I think his defense would still be mediocre-ish for 3B, and he's still have negative value. This guy shouldn't be anywhere near a starting lineup at any position for any major league team. There's just no way Yuni's going to see some sudden boost in his offensive abilities to make me believe he should be playing 3B even as a platoon only guy for someone.

[H4P]

I work evenings and had to listen to most of the games on the radio. The line I will miss the most is Uecker saying:

 

"Chopper up the middle. And juuuusssst past the outstretched glove of Yuni B. And two runs score."

[LouisEly]

I will wait to celebrate until Yuni signs with another team or we sign a different SS. I believe the celebration to be a bit premature. We could still sign him at a reduced price.

They would have to resign him for $3.5M or less for the $2M buyout to make any sense. I think DM has something cooking on the trade front, because I only see three FA SS that would be a significant upgrade - Reyes, Rollins, and Barmes, and two of the three are going to be really expensive, and the third will likely be overpaid due to supply and demand. I don't trust a 38-year-old Jamey Carroll to be an every-day SS. Who else is there - 35-year-old Edgar Renteria?

 

I didn't see Furcal on the list - did the Cards pick up his option?

[JohnBriggs12]

I have a hard time believing Melvin will bring Yuni back. He sat there and watched his "swing at the first pitch" approach and total lack of range (or willingness to dive for a ball at SS) and I am sure he was as frustrated as many of us...even though he will save face and praise him with empty words. He won't be back with MIL.

Diving for ball you can't get to means exactly what? The range issue is mostly based on that and that's why it's overblown. There is far more to the position than laying out for balls. Betancourt is very nifty around the bag turning double plays. His feeds to 2B are generally right where they need to be to facilitate the turn. His hands are quick when he takes the feed from 2B. He also showed the ability to handle tough throws and get tags down quickly on steal attempts.

 

Offensively his approach has led to an average of 73 RBI the past 2 seasons. For a SS, that's productive.

 

From the All Star break through the playoffs, he hit .279 and slugged .439. If you allow for the first half being an adjustment period in a new league, it's not unrealistic to think he'll hit .270-.275 and slug over .400 for a full season in 2012. Batting down in the order, his low OBP isn't as detrimental as it would be higher in the order.

[Thurston Fluff]

Skillset-wise, he's a third baseman. He'd actually probably defend pretty well there.

 

I don't think so. It seemed to me his range issues were due to his slow reflexes more than his lack of actual speed. He never seemed to get a good first jump to the ball. Hell sometimes uit seemed like his first twitch was after the ball was past him. His lack of speed made that slow first step look even worse but a lot of slow SS make plays he didn't. JJ Hardy for example. He was no speed demon but he got to a lot more than Yuni did.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I have a hard time believing Melvin will bring Yuni back. He sat there and watched his "swing at the first pitch" approach and total lack of range (or willingness to dive for a ball at SS) and I am sure he was as frustrated as many of us...even though he will save face and praise him with empty words. He won't be back with MIL.

Diving for ball you can't get to means exactly what? The range issue is mostly based on that and that's why it's overblown. There is far more to the position than laying out for balls. Betancourt is very nifty around the bag turning double plays. His feeds to 2B are generally right where they need to be to facilitate the turn. His hands are quick when he takes the feed from 2B. He also showed the ability to handle tough throws and get tags down quickly on steal attempts.

 

Offensively his approach has led to an average of 73 RBI the past 2 seasons. For a SS, that's productive.

 

From the All Star break through the playoffs, he hit .279 and slugged .439. If you allow for the first half being an adjustment period in a new league, it's not unrealistic to think he'll hit .270-.275 and slug over .400 for a full season in 2012. Batting down in the order, his low OBP isn't as detrimental as it would be higher in the order.

Low OBP is as detrimental hitting 8th as it is 1st. Making outs causes you to score less runs.

 

Also, he's got a career SLG% of .391, so assuming he'll slug over .400 isn't exactly a safe bet.

 

And using RBI is a really poor way to judge offensive performance.

[Patrick425]

JohnBriggs12[/b]]

bucksman4[/b]]I have a hard time believing Melvin will bring Yuni back. He sat there and watched his "swing at the first pitch" approach and total lack of range (or willingness to dive for a ball at SS) and I am sure he was as frustrated as many of us...even though he will save face and praise him with empty words. He won't be back with MIL.

Diving for ball you can't get to means exactly what? The range issue is mostly based on that and that's why it's overblown. There is far more to the position than laying out for balls. Betancourt is very nifty around the bag turning double plays. His feeds to 2B are generally right where they need to be to facilitate the turn. His hands are quick when he takes the feed from 2B. He also showed the ability to handle tough throws and get tags down quickly on steal attempts.

 

Offensively his approach has led to an average of 73 RBI the past 2 seasons. For a SS, that's productive.

 

From the All Star break through the playoffs, he hit .279 and slugged .439. If you allow for the first half being an adjustment period in a new league, it's not unrealistic to think he'll hit .270-.275 and slug over .400 for a full season in 2012. Batting down in the order, his low OBP isn't as detrimental as it would be higher in the order.

I'm not sure I would be willing to allow that the first half of the season was an "adjustment" period. Even if that's true, the fact that his OBP is generally only 20 to 25 points higher than his batting average is the thing that really troubles me. His complete lack of discipline at the plate is what is frustrating to watch.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think so. It seemed to me his range issues were due to his slow reflexes more than his lack of actual speed. He never seemed to get a good first jump to the ball. Hell sometimes uit seemed like his first twitch was after the ball was past him. His lack of speed made that slow first step look even worse but a lot of slow SS make plays he didn't. JJ Hardy for example. He was no speed demon but he got to a lot more than Yuni did.

I hear you & agree on all counts, except that third base is where you can hide a lack of range (see McGehee). For as much as I loathe Betancourt, he has great hands & a good arm. His arm strength & accuracy actually reminds me a bit of J.J.'s.

The range issue is mostly based on that and that's why it's overblown.

No, the "range issue" is based exactly on what Buc just mentioned... lack of range due to terrible instincts/first step.

[The Truth]

But at least Gomez is also good one of the best in MLB on defense

Corrected that for you

[trwi7]

Patrick425 wrote:

---

For all the discussion about the proper pronunciation of Betancourt, I'm more puzzled by being annoyed with BA saying Jon Jay. Um...that's his name..right?

Yeah, I don't know why either, it just annoys me. Maybe it's because his first and last name has three letters, maybe it's because they both start with J, maybe it's because he has two first names. To be fair to Brian, it annoys me when anyone says Jon Jay, so it's not just him.

[The Truth]

If you allow for the first half being an adjustment period in a new league, it's not unrealistic to think he'll hit .270-.275 and slug over .400 for a full season in 2012.

His career BA is .268 and his career Slugging % is .391 in over 3600 plate appearances in 7 seasons, so, sure those numbers aren't unrealistic. His horrible OBP and defensive weaknesses make him a terrible choice for any team however. At any place in the lineup, a sub .300 OBP is a huge liability and often a rally killer

[Thurston Fluff]

I hear you & agree on all counts, except that third base is where you can hide a lack of range (see McGehee). For as much as I loathe Betancourt, he has great hands & a good arm. His arm strength & accuracy actually reminds me a bit of J.J.'s.

 

Only if that lack of range is due to lack of speed. If it's due to lack of that first step, which is Yuni's major problem, third would be a bad place. Third is where quick reflexes it is the most important. I think we are one the same page as far as all the other assets he has. He really only lacked range at short. The rest of his tools seemed ok. His offense doesn't really play anywhere so it's all kind of moot.

Given the FA market at short I won't be jumping off any bridges if he is resigned to a short, cheap contract. That would mean we have more to make additions elsewhere to offset it. If we can get 96 wins with him at short making $6 million we can win a similar amount with him making $1 million and spending in areas that have a noticeable upgrade to be had.

[Patrick425]

Patrick425 wrote:

---

For all the discussion about the proper pronunciation of Betancourt, I'm more puzzled by being annoyed with BA saying Jon Jay. Um...that's his name..right?

Yeah, I don't know why either, it just annoys me. Maybe it's because his first and last name has three letters, maybe it's because they both start with J, maybe it's because he has two first names. To be fair to Brian, it annoys me when anyone says Jon Jay, so it's not just him.

Oh, ok, so it's not just BA...well, that makes a little more sense then. Occasionally when my son or I here that name one of us will start singing "John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt, his name is your name too.....".

 

[bucksman4]

I don't understand the rationale of one's OBP not hurting a team as much if it's a player lower in a batting order. I guess that's the mindset difference between contending teams and pretenders. Look at the Cardinals lineup...not one weak spot in the entire lineup. Their bottom half of the lineup carried them in the World Series.

 

He's not a major league starting SS. Rationalize or try to justify all you want, Yuni stinks in all facets of the game.

[1992casey]

Maybe we could call Jay either Chief Justice Jay or Governor Jay.

[Ennder]

You can sort of hide SLG in the lineup, a low OBP hurts you everywhere.

[RockCoCougars]

The thing with BA and 'Betancore' was noticeable to me as well. It didn't really annoy me, but he took to pronouncing the name like the newscasters that they lampoon who say Spanish words in a overdone way. It was kind of like Bet.an........coooore.

[TooLiveBrew]

But at least Gomez is also good one of the best in MLB on defense

Corrected that for you

You know, this really is a good thing to emphasize. Gomez is that good on defense.