Milwaukee Bucks 2011/2012

[brettac1]

Jon Leuer.... CHAMPIONSHIP!

[homer]

They've been here for years, just keep filling in spots with guys, try to patch it together and make the playoffs, but they never really did a rebuild like they need to.

That team two years ago was good. I've never seen ball movement like that in the NBA. It was so refreshing to see. I hate the iso game. It's soooooo boring. Too bad Hammond had to ruin it by getting black holes in Maggette and Gooden. All that team needed was a lights out shooter.

[trwi7]

That team wasn't good, they were mediocre. 14th best record in the NBA.

[homer]

That team wasn't good, they were mediocre. 14th best record in the NBA.

One of the best records the 2nd half of the season (29 - 12). They were rolling right up until Bogut's injury.

 

2nd half records:

 

Orlando 33 - 8

Cleveland 31 - 10

Utah 30 - 11

Phoenix 30 - 11

Milwaukee 29 - 12

[trwi7]

Let me know when only half the season counts.

[homer]

Let me know when only half the season counts.

No reason to be a jerk.

 

They started off slowly and then caught fire once Salmons arrived. If you think that was a fluke so be it but the stats and record say other wise. They beat some elite teams that second half.

[Corn Trader]

The 09 team was hardly mediocre. Before Bogut went down, we were the talk of the league and would have been a really tough out in the playoffs. Still took the Hawks to six without Bogut

 

The game tonight didnt give us a whole lot without Jackson playing, but I like our guard rotation much more this year than last year. Livingston and Udrih should be a huge step up over Dooling and Boykins. Jon Brockman is terrible, but Leuer looks like he could steal his minutes at some point

[trwi7]

Corn Trader wrote:

---

The 09 team was hardly mediocre.

They were the definition of it. They had the 14th best record in the NBA, wouldn't have made the playoffs in the West and were still only 6th in the East.

[Corn Trader]

29-12 in the second half of the season and one of the hottest teams in the league going into the playoffs. 41 games is no small sample either. A motivated John Salmons joining the team for the second half was the big difference. If Bogut had not been hurt, there was an excellent chance we would have been favored as a 6 seed in the series against the Hawks.

 

You haven't posted one positive or productive thing in this thread yet. Plenty of other threads to troll if you are just looking to be inflammatory

[trwi7]

Fine, I did the work and looked at who they played after the Salmons trade. These are the records of the teams they beat.

 

27-55

44-38

29-53

37-45

32-50

47-35 (without Dwyane Wade)

26-56

26-56

61-21 (without LeBron James)

50-32

53-29

32-50

25-57

53-29

53-29

40-42

29-53

54-28

41-41

12-70

27-55

50-32 (without Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kendrick Perkins)

 

Total record: 748-956 over an 82 game season that record would be 36-46.

 

Almost half of their wins in that span came against teams who lost 50 or more games. They got to play Miami without Dwyane Wade, they got to play Cleveland without LeBron James, they got to play the Celtics the last game of the year when they rested almost every single key player they had. They had an incredibly easy schedule, feasted on some really bad teams and got lucky missing a bunch of star players which basically makes those teams 30 win teams.

 

As I said, they were completely mediocre.

[patrickgpe]

further proof of how low bucks fever is right now. they were running a promotion today that if you went to wendy's during lunch you got a 20 dollar certificate for any ticket in december or january except for the lakers game. took a little early lunch because i didn' t know what to expect. turns out there was not a soul at the northridge one. There were two energee dancers and a member of hoop troop giving out vouchers and pens. Went up to the counter and ordered my food. maybe had 4 people stop in while i was eating.

 

Just image the insanity if the brewers ran something similar.

[brettac1]

I think there are a lot of fans that just never came back once the Big Three era was blown up, especially when Allen got traded. I'm pretty much at the point now where I'm rarely ever excited by the team. And I'm not the "anti-NBA" guy at all, I enjoy the NBA game. I end up watching the Bucks until I determine that they suck and aren't worth watching anymore, and then come back to the NBA for the playoffs.

[jjkoestler]

I enjoyed watching the game last night. The Bucks remind me of a Badgers hoops team. They play great defense, aren't selfish, but can't win a championship because they don't have a couple superstars.

 

It was nice to see Leuer play. He put on some weight and looks has he has the potential to have a nice career.

[fondybrewfan]

Count me in the group that gave up on them after the Big 3 was broken up. I have still casually followed them but it just hasn't been the same. The only time I watch the NBA at all is is the Bucks are playing; the style of play just doesn't suit me well I guess. Part of the problem has always been that the 82 game season a 2 months of playoffs is way to long. This 66 game season might be kind of nice.

 

I really don't get into basketball mode until the football season is over; and even then it is usally NCAA and High School only. Don't get me wrong I will watch the Bucks if they are on but they need to show some consistent improvement before I even consider going to a game. Having exciting and athletic players wouldn't hurt either. We need Darvin Ham. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RockCoCougars]

George Karl set the franchise back years.- he has a bad habit of leaving places in steaming ruin. They flipped the ECF roster for mostly garbage (Joe Smith, Peeler, Kukoc, Mason, 30 games of Payton and a first used for T.J. Ford).

 

To me, this season is shaping up a lot like the last shortened season 98-99(?) where the team looks to be pretty decent coming off a disappointing season (remember Terrell Brandon's ankle?). This has to be the year that Jennings starts building on his first month. Hopefully Bogut can get back close to pre-injury form and Jackson can be a consistent scorer. I honestly could see this team getting a 5 seed in the East if things shake out good. Based on how horrible they looked last year, they could miss the playoffs entirely as well.

[GAME05]

Part of the problem has always been that the 82 game season a 2 months of playoffs is way to long. This 66 game season might be kind of nice.

this coming from a baseball fan? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

i think i paid attention more two years ago than i did during the Big 3 season solely because the basketball people on this thread got so excited about the team. and it's impossible not to root for Bogut even as a non-fan. i mean, that invisible high-fives clip is one of my favourite ever.

 

[Baldkin]

I really think Bogut is primed for a monster season. He averaged 13 pts/11 boards and led the league in blocks while playing with one arm last year. If he'd played for any team on the east or west coast, he would've been chimed as the toughest player ever.

 

Again, though, it will all come down to whether Jennings, especially if he can figure out how to run a pick and roll. He should just spend every post game watching Steve Nash and Chris Paul.

 

Oh, and as for the playoffs, if they can sneak in to the 6th seed (could be possible) they'd really have a shot at winning their first round series. Miami and Chicago are really the only two great teams in the East.

[homer]

Fine, I did the work and looked at who they played after the Salmons trade. These are the records of the teams they beat.

 

27-55

44-38

29-53

37-45

32-50

47-35 (without Dwyane Wade)

26-56

26-56

61-21 (without LeBron James)

50-32

53-29

32-50

25-57

53-29

53-29

40-42

29-53

54-28

41-41

12-70

27-55

50-32 (without Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kendrick Perkins)

 

Total record: 748-956 over an 82 game season that record would be 36-46.

 

Almost half of their wins in that span came against teams who lost 50 or more games. They got to play Miami without Dwyane Wade, they got to play Cleveland without LeBron James, they got to play the Celtics the last game of the year when they rested almost every single key player they had. They had an incredibly easy schedule, feasted on some really bad teams and got lucky missing a bunch of star players which basically makes those teams 30 win teams.

 

As I said, they were completely mediocre.

Impressive research but also not all that meaningful. For one, there's no basis of comparison. Who did Cleveland, Boston, LA play over that same time frame? Secondly, you use overall record of their opponents which doesn't really apply. A better method would be record at the time they played them. Thirdly, you don't take into account margin of victory/loss (i.e. pythagorean)

 

The fact remains that they had a 29 - 12 record. No other mediocre team in the NBA came close to that.

[lcbj68c]

Impressive research but also not all that meaningful. For one, there's no basis of comparison. Who did Cleveland, Boston, LA play over that same time frame? Secondly, you use overall record of their opponents which doesn't really apply. A better method would be record at the time they played them. Thirdly, you don't take into account margin of victory/loss (i.e. pythagorean)

 

The fact remains that they had a 29 - 12 record. No other mediocre team in the NBA came close to that.

I'll preface this by saying I am the most casual and bandwagon Bucks fan ever. And I bemoan the bandwagon fan. Moreso when one flips team allegiance to the hot item of the year, but bandwagon nonetheless. I hate the iso game of the NBA. It is the reason that I simply dont tune in. I only watch the Bucks when it comes playoff time or when the NBA full court package is free to start the season and midseason and only if they are performing well. While Bogut is a great player, they just dont have any star power. Furthermore, star power comes from the isolation game, so again I dont know if I could get behind having a Kobe Bryant on the Bucks to make me tune in on a nightly basis.

 

That said, when I look back at the three most recent Bucks runs, the 2009-2010 season that many are referencing in here felt EXACLTY the same as the 2003-2004 playoff appearance (first round loss to Detroit). It was nothing like the 2000-2001 season in which they narrowly missed the Finals. There was just a feeling of medocrity about the 2009-2010 season, from this casual fan anyway. Sure they won some regular season games against some really good teams, but there was just nothing at the end of the night that screamed they were overly GOOD. I tuned in to every single playoff game, yet it was more of a "can my hometown underdog team pull it off" mentality than "this team is good, I'm excited" kind of deal.

 

 

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I read these responses and feel bad for the any Bucks fan under the age of 30. Before Herb Kohl took bought the team this team was one of the best organizations in the NBA. We were usually near 60 wins, seeded highly, and played an exciting brand of basketball. I don't feel that Herb is the sole reason for this long period of mediocrity. I think it has a lot more to do with the economics of the NBA. I just blame Herb for letting Don Nelson go, he should have been named coach-for-life. Right now we are caught in that trap of swapping bad contracts for bad contracts, hoping to get lucky and a find a mix that works. We have been unfortunate in that it seems that when we seem to get a higher draft pick, it seems to be during a weaker draft. I think that the era of the big 3 was destined to come to an end at that point. I doubt that the selfishness of Big Dog and Cassell would have been able to co-exist much longer. Ray Allen was traded by George to spite Herb. I think that Ray would have re-signed to play here, and then have been dealt at a later time. Hopefully it would have been for a lot better return than what we got (We essentually traded Ray Allen, Flip Murray, Nick Collison, and I think someone else for Desmond Mason). For this organization to return to glory of the first 20 years it will need more capital to work with and it will need to get the draft right more often. I am not sure what to think of the current team. It has depth but I don't think it will be a good rebounding team. It also seems that we can either put a team on the floor that defends, or one that can shoot, but not one that can do both. We are probably an 8th seed at best. I like Scott Skiles, I wish we would build a team for him instead of what we seem to be doing, which is assembling players and telling him to make the best of things.

[nate82]

The best thing for the Bucks to do would be to go into a 100% rebuilding mode which means trading Jennings and Bogut. Bogut is a great center but the Bucks are just not going to win with him and the same can be said about Jennings. I really wish the Bucks would have taken Holliday over Jennings in the draft as Holliday looks to be more of a PG every year while Jennings looks to be a rather short SG an Allen Iverson like player without the defense and the average shooting skills. The Bucks also have some very good complimentary players on the team that they could trade.

[yoshii8]

Man, that Bucks opener last night was depressing. Stephen Jackson looked like he didn't know how to play basketball, and the overall talent on the Bucks looks pretty low. How in the world did Hammond not get a backup C after last season?

 

We were missing Delfino, Mbah a Moute, and Tobias Harris, which would've made a difference. I hope I'm wrong but I think it's going to be a long season, and I'm usually as optimistic as they come.

 

The good things were Sean Livingston looked good, and Bogut looked a lot healthier than last season.

[Baldkin]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Bogut scores 8 points in the first 6 minutes, then hardly touches the ball until the final minute of the game. Ridiculous.

[RockCoCougars]

I concur that Bogut looked very good last night. Unfortunately, the team seemed to continue their M.O. from last season by disappearing for a huge chunk of the game.

[davego]

Augie is right. Don Nelson should have been elevated to "eternal coach." Don Il Sun.