Milwaukee Bucks 2011/2012

[patrickgpe]

latest rumors have the bucks trying to move livingston and/or Mbah a Moute. don't get moving Mbah a Moute, he has a very favorable contract and is the best defensive player on the team. I guess its to free up space to sign Ersan. They do need to move some of their 4's. Right now this is a team full of PF's and no centers.

[NievesNoNO]

It does save lots of money next year but I don't know who would actually come here.

 

That's the thing. All things being equal we rank up there with Cleveland as players Free Agents want to come. We need to build through the draft. Hammond doesn't seem to get that. Ellis is just another in a long line of band-aids that won't turn around the fortunes of the team. Ellis---> Jackson---> Salmons ---> Maggette ---> Richard Jefferson ---> Charlie Villanueva ---> Bobby Simmons---> Keith Van Horn. Every year it's someone else and every year it fails.

 

The problem is they need to spend money on somebody so every year they have to shell out money to marginal players because that's the way the system is. This off-season will be the same; they'll bring in some more mid level talent because they have to. I don't know a way around it to actually build through the draft..if that's even possible in the NBA. I guess you could load up your team with young players and then completely overpay a few vets on 1 year deals or something.

 

It's just seems like such an endless cycle of salary dumping and trading for expiring contracts. Another one of the many reasons why the NBA has never really captured my full attention.

[homer]

The problem is they need to spend money on somebody so every year they have to shell out money to marginal players because that's the way the system is. This off-season will be the same; they'll bring in some more mid level talent because they have to. I don't know a way around it to actually build through the draft..if that's even possible in the NBA. I guess you could load up your team with young players and then completely overpay a few vets on 1 year deals or something.

 

It's just seems like such an endless cycle of salary dumping and trading for expiring contracts. Another one of the many reasons why the NBA has never really captured my full attention.

 

Agreed. It's like the only way you can become an elite team in the NBA is to either:

 

A) get supremely lucky in the lottery

B) have a franchise located in Miami, LA, or Boston. Possibly New York too but they have been run by the equivalent of Sal Bando the last 20 years.

[RockCoCougars]

Ellis can score in bunches, so I like that aspect of the deal. I've seen him completely take over games. His midrange jumper is Cassell-esque and he can finish at the hoop as well. From what I've seen, Golden State fans have a lot of love for Udoh, so perhaps he will add something as well. The problem is that Ellis' size inhibits his ability to guard people, and I'm concerned about his ability to co-exist with Jennings. Maybe the deal will reign Jennings in from a shoot first guy, but I have my doubts. At the least, this deal will make the Bucks much more interesting to watch for the rest of the year, but I have grave concerns about the impact that giving up on Bogut will have on this franchise down the road. Obviously, this deal was made in the hopes of making a run similar to a few years ago.

[Baldkin]

Ellis can score in bunches, so I like that aspect of the deal. I've seen him completely take over games. His midrange jumper is Cassell-esque and he can finish at the hoop as well. From what I've seen, Golden State fans have a lot of love for Udoh, so perhaps he will add something as well. The problem is that Ellis' size inhibits his ability to guard people, and I'm concerned about his ability to co-exist with Jennings. Maybe the deal will reign Jennings in from a shoot first guy, but I have my doubts. At the least, this deal will make the Bucks much more interesting to watch for the rest of the year, but I have grave concerns about the impact that giving up on Bogut will have on this franchise down the road. Obviously, this deal was made in the hopes of making a run similar to a few years ago.

 

Their backcourt now consists of two guys who score a combined 40 ppg, on 37 shots a game. Ellis can't guard anyone, and he doesn't get to the freethrow line.

 

If you like 18 foot jumpers, you're going to see a lot of them with Jennings and Ellis.

[RockCoCougars]

Admittedly I haven't seen too much of Ellis outside of some late night ESPN/NBATV games on the tube, but from what I've seen, he's not content jacking up threes/long jumpers. He seems much more aggressive driving to the basket with a ton more effectiveness than Jennings, and seems to have a good mid range shot. I've seen him completely take over a few games. Obviously, there are warts on defense, but that is generally the case with scoring guards in the NBA.

[yoshii8]

Bucks have now won four in a row after beating Cleveland last night. It's going to be interesting to see how adding Monta Ellis and Ekpe Udoh is going to affect the chemistry.

[homer]

Bucks have now won four in a row after beating Cleveland last night. It's going to be interesting to see how adding Monta Ellis and Ekpe Udoh is going to affect the chemistry.

 

Gooden had a triple double....a few more turnovers and he could have had a quadruple double!

 

Interesting write-up on the Bogut trade:

 

http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2142

 

"Ideally, Ellis and Udoh work in concert for Milwaukee. Udoh dramatically upgrades the defense while Ellis replaces some of the scoring punch lost if Gooden sees less action. Fitting all the pieces together may take some time for Skiles, and that's the danger of making a major trade during this compressed season. With so little practice time, the Bucks will have to integrate newcomers on the fly. Now that the race is on for the last spot in the Eastern Conference Playoffs, however, a slight upgrade could make a difference. If so, Milwaukee achieved it without sacrificing long-term thinking. Though Udoh won't replace a healthy Bogut's production, he softens the blow and the Bucks freed some $8.5 million in salary for 2012-13, which could help them re-sign Ersan Ilyasova next summer."

[trwi7]

http://twitter.com/#!/SFBaySportsFan/status/180340188554346497

[ninja33]

They could've had Curry. They also could've gotten Scola, Dalembert and No. 1 pick plus other considerations for Bogut and Jackson from the Rockets.

 

They took the worst of the poo poo platter, instead of buying out or amnestying Jackson.

 

I won't argue about Curry, but his ankle is kind of terrifying. The fact that the Warriors would have rather traded him now (when they've been trying to trade Ellis for some time) is pretty worrisome in regards to that ankle.

 

Also, Luis Scola makes more money for a longer time than Ellis, is a worse player, and is a PF which is not a need. Dalembert is an expiring contract. A better one than Kwame, but the end game is still the same. A mid round pick in a deep draft from the rockets likely ends up being a player pretty comparable to Udoh. I'm not sure this type of trade is what the bucks really need (although a complete blowup/rebuild is not as easy as most think, despite what the thunder have done. and that took top 4 picks in 3 consecutive years, and hitting on all of them). Given the choice between the two trades, I'm going to take Ellis/Udoh.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't really get why people would prefer Curry. His upside is basically a watered down Ray Allen. Considering that he apparently has chronic ankle issues, I could see his career mirroring his dad's... who, by the way was one of my favorite players of his day, even though he was an absolute Bucks killer. The funny thing about Dell Curry was every fan that you talked to about him always had the same 'he kills us' remark, no matter the team.

[ninja33]

Their backcourt now consists of two guys who score a combined 40 ppg, on 37 shots a game. Ellis can't guard anyone, and he doesn't get to the freethrow line.

 

If you like 18 foot jumpers, you're going to see a lot of them with Jennings and Ellis.

 

Ellis averages 5 FT, which is 27th in the league this season. That is 12th among guards, and 4th among shooting guards. I think many people are underestimating how talented he is. They see a 43% FG% this season (which is equal to kobe this season, for what that's worth) and assume he's just a guy who jacks up 18 footers all day, but don't see the career 46.5% number. That number is elevated due to his ridiculous 07-08, but he's still probably a 45% shooter. Which would be #5 among SG this year. The guy can score, and outside of this year he's done it fairly efficiently for a guard. Maybe getting out of a bad situation playing 40+ minutes a game as the only guy who can score on a bad team will get him back to that. Or maybe it'll end up being the same situation...the optimist in me will hope for the latter.

 

I understand the fear about he and jennings coexisting. But it's worth noting that Monta Ellis's best years were with Baron Davis playing point and shooting 17 times per game (and making a low % of them). Brandon Jennings is not Baron Davis...but the point is that Ellis can coexist and thrive with a PG who also shoots a lot. And if (a big if) Jennings can adapt his game to be more of a facilitator, bumping the assists up to 7+ a game, I think they could have a lot of success together. It's hard to envision Jennings doing so, but he's also never really been in the situation where he doesn't have to be the scorer.

 

I don't love the trade, but I feel the need to defend it. People are treating it like we traded a draft pick. The bucks will still have the 15th pick (if they make the playoffs) in a deep draft. They could still get a new C like Tyler Zeller there, or an athletic peremiter defender type of guy. By "going for it" they're likely moving down about 5 spots and sacrificing the 3-8% chance that they get a top 3 pick. I get the reshuffling the deck chairs argument, and probably agree with it. Everyone wants to do what the thunder did. but it was really what the supersonics did....so what happens if they blow the team up, tank, get high draft picks, and we get to watch them put it all together in Kansas City or Seattle or anywhere else? Even if it's the right choice for the team long term, no one is going to want to watch it for the next 3 or 4 years. If nothing else the team is a little bit better than it was a few days ago, and potentially much more fun to watch (so much swag!). And everyone is so worried about all the missed shots seems to forget that it just means 5 more rebounds a game for Ersan.

[trwi7]

Ellis' career TS% is 53.5. The average for the past several years has been around 54-54.5. So no, he's not efficient.

[ninja33]

Ellis' career TS% is 53.5. The average for the past several years has been around 54-54.5. So no, he's not efficient.

 

what is the average for guards? I understand that building your team around 2 guards that shoot a lot with average (ellis) or below average (jennings) efficiency isn't the way to go about things. But my point was that Ellis can score efficiently for a guard, and I stand by that. I would guess that 54-54.5 number is bouyed by a lot of F/C.

[ninja33]

actually, the site i was looking at with TS% left out quite a few players (must have had a high threshold to qualify), so it made the numbers seem lower. pulling up hollinger's stats on ESPN shows a more substantial list, and I will retract the "efficient" statement. I still like the trade relative to the rockets offer.

[trwi7]

Don't know the exact numbers but it's generally around the same for each position. Guards get rewarded because they can usually hit 3's and free throws at a higher percentage. Power forwards and centers usually have higher field goal percentages but struggle shooting free throws.

[paul253]

Portland just sent Gerald Wallace to the Nets for a couple of crap players and the Nets 2012 first round pick. Wallace is averaging a little over 13 points a game and 6.6 rebounds a game. The pick is top 3 protected. Right now NJ has like the 5th or 6th worst record in the league. If things work out well for Portland, they could come away with a top 5 pick for a guy averaging 13 and 7. That is the type of deal I wanted the Bucks to make.

[LouisEly]

And in a bit of irony, Golden State sends Stephen Jackson to the Spurs for Richard Jefferson and a conditional first round pick. I think the condition is that it is a lottery-protected pick, but with San Antonio having the 2nd best record in the Western Conference a) it will very likely go to Golden State, and b) it will be very late in the first round.

[craigharmann]

And in a bit of irony, Golden State sends Stephen Jackson to the Spurs for Richard Jefferson and a conditional first round pick. I think the condition is that it is a lottery-protected pick, but with San Antonio having the 2nd best record in the Western Conference a) it will very likely go to Golden State, and b) it will be very late in the first round.

 

 

Just read it online and the San Antonio Express News is trying to spin it as a positive. If it were up to me, I'd rather have neither Richard Jefferson or Jackson. It's not an exciting or sexy trade by any stretch.

[ninja33]

Portland just sent Gerald Wallace to the Nets for a couple of crap players and the Nets 2012 first round pick. Wallace is averaging a little over 13 points a game and 6.6 rebounds a game. The pick is top 3 protected. Right now NJ has like the 5th or 6th worst record in the league. If things work out well for Portland, they could come away with a top 5 pick for a guy averaging 13 and 7. That is the type of deal I wanted the Bucks to make.

 

i think that's the type of deal anyone would want their team to make. unfortunately the nets already have a center with injury problems and the bucks don't really have another piece that warrants a potentially high lottery pick. Of course Gerald Wallace probably doesn't warrant one either (although he is a much better player than "a guy who gets 13 and 7").

[ELCABALLO45]

Bucks stay hot and are blasting Portland right now. They are sharing the ball so well, I am getting sucked in again. They are so fun to watch. Hopefully it continues.

[saget]

So, the Bucks are like, a good team now. I can dig it.

[yoshii8]

They are playing very well right now, Monta and Udoh are fitting in perfectly. Hopefully they can keep it up against the Celtics on Thursday night. I really hope they have a decent crowd for Monta's first game at the BC.

[Outlander]

I really think they would have had a good crowd because people are starting to talk more about the Bucks but I think that will have to wait due to Wisconsin and Marquette playing the same day.

[davego]

Just for me, the best thing about the Bucks playing a bit better is that we get less of the "Bucks should move" and "who cares about the NBA" posts.

 

These next 5 games will see if they can grab the #8 (or even the #6), or struggle to stay in the mix. Hopefully the assist-count stays as high as last night!