Milwaukee Bucks 2011/2012

[brwrsfan]

I just came here to post that exact article. It really sucks. Now maybe he won't leave, but this the problem with the NBA. They don't want players staying with their team. From all accounts, Jennings likes it here, but he realizes that he's better off in a big market where he can get more advertising, play with better players and be more relevent. He'd still have 2 more seasons here I believe no matter what. I mean, he doesn't say he won't sign one, but it's sure not a good thing that he's already thinking and talking about other options.

 

It says he doesn't like the direction the team is going, and I can't really blame him on that. As we've all talked about, they are stuck in a middling rut, have no real tradeable pieces and won't be bad enough to really improve through the draft. Barring something changing, it sure seems like he's as good as gone. The better he plays, the more likely it becomes I think. Which sucks. We have a young, improving player, just shy of being an all star at the age of 22-23 and he already wants out.

[CheezWizHed]

If Rose was on the Bucks, everyone else on the team would be a good support player.

 

You mean like Joe Alexander, Yi Jianlian and Larry Sanders? The Bulls have their bad picks also, but overall, the Bulls have done a much better job of drafting in the last 5-6 years.

[Baldkin]

If Rose was on the Bucks, everyone else on the team would be a good support player.

 

You mean like Joe Alexander, Yi Jianlian and Larry Sanders? The Bulls have their bad picks also, but overall, the Bulls have done a much better job of drafting in the last 5-6 years.

No, like Jon Leuer, Prince Luc, and Brandon Jennings. Other than Rose and Noah, the Bulls haven't drafted anyone with impact. Jimmy Butler? James Johnson? Taj Gibson? Really? Those are great first round picks?

Also Noah was the #9 pick overall, not like he was some late first round pickup. Yes, Yi was a bust, but Noah was the only guy who turned out decent who was picked after Yi.

You draft the MVP, everyone else looks better. Only 2 of their top 8 in mins/game are home drafted players. Taj Gibson is 9th, so that's 33%.

[PrinceEatMeat]

If Rose was on the Bucks, everyone else on the team would be a good support player.

 

You mean like Joe Alexander, Yi Jianlian and Larry Sanders? The Bulls have their bad picks also, but overall, the Bulls have done a much better job of drafting in the last 5-6 years.

No, like Jon Leuer, Prince Luc, and Brandon Jennings. Other than Rose and Noah, the Bulls haven't drafted anyone with impact. Jimmy Butler? James Johnson? Taj Gibson? Really? Those are great first round picks?

Also Noah was the #9 pick overall, not like he was some late first round pickup. Yes, Yi was a bust, but Noah was the only guy who turned out decent who was picked after Yi.

You draft the MVP, everyone else looks better. Only 2 of their top 8 in mins/game are home drafted players. Taj Gibson is 9th, so that's 33%.

The difference is that the Bucks continuously blow lottery picks. The Bulls are drafting in the late first round because they are a perennial playoff team. Those late first rounders aren't expected to be studs. They are just hoping to get decent role players with those picks, and they did. With where the Bucks have been drafting it's usually expected to be able to hit on a few of those picks. They really haven't hit on any of them except Jennings. The thing is though that all it takes is getting lucky in the right draft and winning the lottery. The Bulls got lucky and landed a superstar in Rose. If the Bucks could do that, they would likely turn around pretty quickly as well. Rose obviously makes other players better, but that doesn't mean that the players the Bucks have are as talented as some of the Bulls. That's not true at all. Either way though that's what superstars do. They make everyone around them better, and they can carry a team pretty much by themselves.

[patrickgpe]

this isn't the first time Jennings said something like this, last season after the bucks played Melo's knicks he said this is why players go to big market teams. I am sure that next season the bucks may be looking to move him for younger players so he can sign an extension with a larger market team. I am fine with this. The bucks need young players to build something. Id like to see a move like what the clippers sent to the hornets for Paul (even though BJ is nowhere near the player that Paul is obviously)

[CheezWizHed]

Bravo. You pointed out a few players the Bucks drafted well and a few the Bulls drafted poorly. Why so binary? I said the Bulls have done better, not perfection. Rose sure is the shining star, but we also have a #1 pick on our team. Without looking, it would seem that even the players the Bulls miss on tend to be a serviceable bench NBA player. The ones we have been missing on are playing in a YMCA league somewhere...

[RockCoCougars]

I'm not worried about Jennings. He's a 22 year old kid, and 22 year olds will shoot their mouths off sometimes. If he plays well enough over the next 2.5 years to demand huge interest from the big markets, that's a good thing considering that I was ready to give up on him after the last 1.5 years. I'd have been upset as well if I was bypassed for the all-star team for Deron Williams (Jennings should take some lessons from him, whining to go to a 'big market' is often not all that it's cracked up to be- at least on the court).

 

As for the draft, I think that a given teams' performance in the draft (or lack thereof) is closely correlated with the talent level in the given draft. Some drafts are crappy and there maybe four or five decent players taken after the first five picks and some drafts are stacked to the point that it would be hard to mess things up with a lottery pick ('96 for example). In most drafts the past several years, there have been some good players the first few picks, and mostly garbage thereafter. This still doesn't excuse the Bucks for drafting Yi and Alexander though.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Honestly it would be really stupid of Jennings if he didn't sign an extension after the season once he's eligible. Why would he risk not getting a big contract to injury or possible poor play? Plus, to become a UFA he must accept the QO after 2013, which wouldn't pay him as much either. He's better off accepting an extension and getting all the money he can, rather than waiting until after 2014 and making a lot less money until then. We'll see though. If he's deadset on testing the market he'll play out the last 3 years and probably walk.

[Baldkin]

I'm going to post this, because I am fairly fed up with this myth that the Bucks are terrible at drafting, and the Bulls are great at it.

 

Since 2005 (Bogut's draft year):

Bulls:

2011 1 30 Jimmy Butler

2010: No Picks

2009 1 16 James Johnson

2009 1 26 Taj Gibson

2008 1 1 Derrick Rose

2008 2 39 Sonny Weems

2007 1 9 Joakim Noah

2007 2 49 Aaron Gray

2007 2 51 Jameson Curry

2006 1 2 LaMarcus Aldridge (Traded for the immortal Tyrus Thomas and another pick)

2006 1 16 Rodney Carney

2005: No Picks

Bucks:

2011 1 19 Tobias Harris

2011 2 41 Jon Leuer

2010 1 15 Larry Sanders

2010 2 37 Darington Hobson

2010 2 47 Tiny Gallon

2009 1 10 Brandon Jennings

2009 2 41 Jodie Meeks

2008 1 8 Joe Alexander

2008 2 37 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute

2007 1 6 Yi Jianlian

2007 2 56 Ramon Sessions

2006 2 39 David Noel

2005 1 1 Andrew Bogut

2005 2 36 Ersan İlyasova

 

So, yeah, the Bucks missed on Yi and Alexander - but they weren't drafting Noah in 2007, or Brook Lopez in 2008, so there wasn't much there to be had and they went with "biggest upside", turned out, neither of them panned out.

 

Again, it's getting the MVP in the lottery where the Bulls beat the Bucks. Instead of getting the #2 pick and Kevin Durant, the Bucks got #6 and Yi.

 

Proof again, that in order to become a top team, they need to win the lottery and not try to play for the 8th seed every season by signing horrible free agent stopgaps.

[RockCoCougars]

The Bucks have drafted horrible for the most part since the early 80's. They had three nice hits in 93-96, but that's about it.

 

As for being a 'top team' in the lottery, I will still argue that it's a crapshoot. With all the teenagers and international guys, drafts are not as strong as they once were in my opinion. Heck the Bulls had the 2/3 I believe one year not too long ago (2002?) and took Chandler and Curry.

[nate82]

The Bucks also need to get lucky and have a top 5 pick in a draft that is loaded with actual top 5 pick talent. The Bulls couldn't have gone wrong with picking either Rose or Durant. I agree that the Bucks need to stop signing fringe FA and they need to get a high draft pick. Hopefully Drummond stays for another year but I highly doubt he will as he is probably going to go #1 in the draft. If the Bucks are picking in the 9-12 range which is where they will probably land hopefully. I could see someone like Bradley Beal, Terrence Jones, Percy Joones (a long stretch as I think he will be gone before the Bucks pick),or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist on the Bucks radar. Bradley Beal makes the most sense unless the Bucks get lucky and get the 1st pick in the draft somehow. I would love to get Drummond as I believe he could easily replace Bogut 2-3 years down the road. It would also help ease Drummond into the league playing him at the PF position and then moving him to center once Bogut's contract is over. Realistically I see the Bucks getting a pick in the 9-13 range which looks to have some decent talent. Bradley Beal would fit in perfectly with the team right now as he would be an outside threat as he shoots mid and long range rather well. The Bucks are definitely lacking a true long range threat and it would help Jennings out. Beal is probably not at the ideal height that you would want for a 2 guard and if he doesn't work out there he could always be a rather good backup PG or the Bucks could trade Jennings.

[CheezWizHed]

Score card:

2011 1 19 Tobias Harris - Too soon to evaluate

2011 2 41 Jon Leuer - Too soon to evaluate

2010 1 15 Larry Sanders - F so far. Still hope, but has contributed less then Leuer

2010 2 37 Darington Hobson - F Maybe an injury casualty, but...

2010 2 47 Tiny Gallon - F-

2009 1 10 Brandon Jennings - A: was a good pick when people said we over-drafted him.

2009 2 41 Jodie Meeks - B - Might have said an A if we kept him...

2008 1 8 Joe Alexander - F--

2008 2 37 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute - A for a 2nd rounder

2007 1 6 Yi Jianlian - F

2007 2 56 Ramon Sessions - B

2006 2 39 David Noel - F

2005 1 1 Andrew Bogut - Lucky (hey if Rose was lucky)

2005 2 36 Ersan İlyasova - A

 

Maybe the Bulls aren't any better (no one said they were excellent). I surely don't follow them as closely as the Bucks. But is sure seems that they are able to draft more role players (C and B type). The Bucks have a lot of "F"s on the list...

 

Even for Thomas, they got a 1st round in a trade for him.

[RockCoCougars]

The Bucks are experts at drafting second round guys, that's for sure. Look at some of their second rounders over the past 20 years: Luc Richard, Leuer, Redd, Ersan, Sessions, Bogans, Flip Murray, Dan Gadzuric, Meeks, Skip Alston, Moochie Norris, Eric Snow, Vashon Lenard, Bobby Phills. That's a lot of pretty decent players. I'd be willing to bet that no team has had better results in the second round. First round, not so much. Many of these second rounders ended up outplaying their counterpart in the first round. Perhaps the Bucks should just stockpile second round picks...

[JJHardy7]

So, yeah, the Bucks missed on Yi and Alexander - but they weren't drafting Noah in 2007, or Brook Lopez in 2008, so there wasn't much there to be had and they went with "biggest upside", turned out, neither of them panned out.

 

I think part of the problem is that they weren't going to draft Noah or Lopez in 2008. This team hasn't been deep enough in years to say they don't need a certain position, but they feel otherwise.

 

The Bucks are the anti-Ted Thompson and continue to draft need over talent and painfully botching it at times.

[RockCoCougars]

The Bucks had interest in Noah, but he refused to visit Milwaukee if I recall correctly.

[bullox]

The Bucks had interest in Noah, but he refused to visit Milwaukee if I recall correctly.

 

 

Yi could not wait to play ball in Milwaukee.

 

It's a draft. Whether he wanted to play here or not, it's not really up to him.

[RockCoCougars]

The Bucks had interest in Noah, but he refused to visit Milwaukee if I recall correctly.

 

 

Yi could not wait to play ball in Milwaukee.

 

It's a draft. Whether he wanted to play here or not, it's not really up to him.

 

Yeah, but Yi was better than Yao. Yao said so himself.

[homer]

Any time you move up in the lottery it is certainly lucky so I agree that getting the number 1 pick for the Bucks in 2005 was lucky. But there are different degrees of luck. The Bulls had a 1.7% chance of getting the first pick in the draft in 2008. Not to mention, it pays to get lucky the right year. Some years you have Lebron James, Blake Griffin, or Derrick Rose be the first pick and some year's its Michael Olowokandi.

[nate82]

The Bucks had interest in Noah, but he refused to visit Milwaukee if I recall correctly.

 

A lot of players in that draft refused to visit Milwaukee and I may not be recalling that correctly but something is sticking in my mind about that. The one thing about the 2008 draft is if the draft would have gone by record instead of some stupid ping pong the Bucks could have had Eric Gordon and the Bulls wouldn't have gotten Rose either. I also believe that in 2008 if the Bucks were dead set on drafting a Forward they should have drafted Anthony Randolph instead.

 

I am not sure the Bucks have figured out the idea of using the BPA strategy. I think they are evaluating and going with guys with the highest upside but with very low floors and reaching with their 1st round picks. While with their 2nd round picks they are drafting guys at least recently who have high floors and rather low ceilings. I don't want the Bucks to not draft high upside players but with the NBA it seems that guys with high upside potential but don't really have a floor set are always flops.

 

.rant. I can express how much I hate the stupid ping pong gamble that the NBA has for its draft. This has to be one of the dumbest ideas to ever have been thought up for a draft. I mean come on a team that is only 16 games under .500 gets the first pick in the draft when a team that is 50+ games under .500 now gets the 2nd pick in the draft or worse they could get a 5th pick? It makes absolutely no sense at all. .rantover.

[RockCoCougars]

The Bucks had interest in Noah, but he refused to visit Milwaukee if I recall correctly.

 

A lot of players in that draft refused to visit Milwaukee and I may not be recalling that correctly but something is sticking in my mind about that.

 

That's my recollection as well. I know that Noah did for sure. I remember the Bucks drafting Yi and wondering who they would be trading him to.

 

I am not sure the Bucks have figured out the idea of using the BPA strategy. I think they are evaluating and going with guys with the highest upside but with very low floors and reaching with their 1st round picks. While with their 2nd round picks they are drafting guys at least recently who have high floors and rather low ceilings.

 

Exactly. Perhaps the prior regime learned their lesson by drafting Haislip, but the current regime duplicated that mistake by taking Alexander. I don't want a guy who can 'jump out of the gym'. Sanders falls into that raw but athletic mode as well. I want a guy who can play basketball.

 

.rant. I can express how much I hate the stupid ping pong gamble that the NBA has for its draft. This has to be one of the dumbest ideas to ever have been thought up for a draft. I mean come on a team that is only 16 games under .500 gets the first pick in the draft when a team that is 50+ games under .500 now gets the 2nd pick in the draft or worse they could get a 5th pick? It makes absolutely no sense at all. .rantover

 

The reason for this is that everyone was tanking to get Ralph Sampson. The Rockets tanked the next year as well and got Akeem. It was actually pretty ridiculous. Funny how the next year, Stern rigged the first lotto so the Knicks would get Ewing.

[trwi7]

Terrific loss tonight to the Hornets. Keep it up!

[Baldkin]

I no longer plan to attend any games this season. The only team I'd want to see them play (The T-Wolves) is already done visiting the Bradley Center.

 

What an ugly, ugly loss.

[Invader3K]

Brandon Jennings had some pretty interesting (and at the same time, depressing) comments after the game.

 

"I can't say I've been playing hard the last couple games...I really haven't. I need to look in the mirror and ask myself if this is something I'm up for."

[brettac1]

Are there other guys in the league aside from Jeremy Lin?

[fondybrewfan]

I don't get the Lin thing either. Listen I know its great that some unheralded player has come out of nowhere; but stop pretending like he is the next superstar. His A/TO sucks for a PG and can't make a 3 to save his life. He is just going to be another flash in the pan player that has a good 20 game stretch and then goes back to mediocrity.

 

Bucks have I believe the 10th worst record right now but are within earshot of all but 3 teams. NO, WASH, and CHA are so bad I don't see them winning enough games for the Bucks to catch them. Although NO looked like the better team yesterday.

 

Nice to see that Jennings has already phoned it in for the year; not exactly a positive development. Just start trading whatever pieces you can.