Milwaukee Bucks 2011/2012

[trwi7]

Corn Trader wrote:

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The perception in the draft that year was either Bogut or Marvin Williams were the two potential stars in the draft. Looking at it that way, we got kind of lucky

Uhh, no. Paul was very highly thought of as a potential star and then he punched Julius Hodge below the belt. 15/4.5/6.5 in a major conference as a sophomore is incredible. Andy Katz was one who touted Chris Paul as the #1 overall pick.

 

And since when does an NBA team have to listen to what people in the media have to say about who should go where and who they should pick? I'm pretty sure nobody had Deron Williams rated as the 3rd best prospect and best point guard in that draft but Utah is a smart organization and they traded up to 3 to draft him. That worked out pretty well for them. The Bucks meanwhile probably had this line of thinking. We already have a point guard in T.J. Ford so it wouldn't make sense to draft another one and we don't have any good big men so let's draft Bogut.

[trwi7]

He is probably the 2nd best center in the league... (wait for it)... when healthy.

 

He's not even the 2nd best center in the division at this point.

 

Look at the Top 3 picks over the past several years, they are about a 50/50 proposition.

 

Let's look at top 5 picks the past several years

 

2009: Blake Griffin, Hasheem Thabeet, James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio

2008: Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, O.J. Mayo, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love

2007: Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Mike Conley, Jeff Green

2006: Andrea Bargnani, LaMarcus Aldridge, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Sheldon Williams

2005: Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Raymond Felton

2004: Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, Josh Childress

2003: LeBron James, Darko Milicic, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade

2002: Yao Ming, Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Drew Gooden, Nikoloz Tskitishvili

2001: Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Eddy Curry, Jason Richardson

 

I see 18 all-stars out of 45 and several superstars. How do you win in the NBA? With one superstar and a solid supporting cast or with multiple all-stars. Where are you going to get all-stars most likely? Top of the draft. The Bucks haven't figured this out in 20 years. Where did we get the core players for our last contending team? Glenn Robinson - #1 overall pick, Ray Allen - #5 overall pick, Sam Cassell - traded former 11th overall pick Terrell Brandon for him.

 

The best thing the Bucks could do is trade Bogut, suck for a couple years and see what you come up with high in the lottery.

[FVBrewerFan]

Bogut could be the 3rd best player on a championship team. That's not bad at all. Jennings may be developing into the 2nd best player. Add in roles players like Ersan, The Prince, etc. and they're not far off from being a true contender. All they're missing is true stud like a Durant, Wade, or Kobe. That's a lot of luck more than anything.

[fondybrewfan]

So there was maybe one guy who thought Paul was a #1 pick. In general everyone was pretty content that the Bucks took the best player available that year.

 

I was only implying the Bucks were unlucky in that they just happened to luck into #1 pick in a year where there was no clear #1 pick and no a clear superstar in the bunch. In hindsight Paul has turned into one but the Bucks and Paul were never even in the same sentence in that draft so it is a little unfair to say they dropped the ball. Paul was a consensus #3-6 type player

 

The NBA draft is maddening; it seems like every player taken after #5 is a project type player. It seems virtually no players are ready to step in an contribute heavily right away.

[RockCoCougars]

I see 18 all-stars out of 45 and several superstars. How do you win in the NBA? With one superstar and a solid supporting cast or with multiple all-stars.

 

I may have missed someone, but outside of Tyson Chandler last year do any of these guys have a ring? To me, on that list of top three guys Rose, Durant and James are probably the only true superstars capable of leading a team to a championship as the top player. Guys like Griffin, Anthony and Howard are probably best suited as second bananas. Then you have lots of OK players and busts in the top 3.

 

To me, the key for the Bucks run was not only drafting Big Dog and Ray. I loved those guys, but had they not drafted Vin Baker and then turned him into Sam Cassell and Tim Thomas (by dumping the losers Brandon and Hill), they probably wouldn't have went past the first round. Baker was a mid lottery pick. I remember that a lot of people were mad that the Bucks traded Marbury for Allen. Had they not done that, things would have even been worse. This is not even mentioning the fact that the Bucks were fortuitous that '94 and '96 were probably two of the best drafts in the last 20 some years. If they were off by just a year (#1 in '95, #5 in '97), they would have been stuck with steaming garbage.

[trwi7]

RockCoCougars wrote:

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I may have missed someone, but outside of Tyson Chandler last year do any of these guys have a ring? To me, on that list of top three guys Rose, Durant and James are probably the only true superstars capable of leading a team to a championship as the top player. Guys like Griffin, Anthony and Howard are probably best suited as second bananas. Then you have lots of OK players and busts in the top 3.

Why do they need to have rings? Adam Morrison has two rings, is he better than Kevin Durant or Dwyane Wade? No. A lot of those players that are drafted high may not lead to championships but they could lead to deep playoff runs, something the Bucks have had once in 25 years.

[jjkoestler]

What assets do the Bucks have to trade and what could they get for those assets? I'd be willing to trade everyone except Jennings, Leuer, and Harris.

[trwi7]

I don't know why you wouldn't trade Leuer, he's a 2nd round pick. Big deal if he gets traded. After Jennings there's basically Bogut and LRMAM. Nobody is taking Jackson, Gooden, you might be able to get rid of Udrih but you wouldn't get much. Delfino, Sanders, Ersan may get you a little bit but it probably wouldn't be enough for the trade to make sense.

[jjkoestler]

Homerism. I wouldn't trade Leuer because I imagine he'd only be worth another 2nd round pick,

[RockCoCougars]

Good God. Bogut broke his ankle last night, out 'indefinitely'.

[trwi7]

Bogut has a fractured ankle and is out indefinitely. This team is going to suck and it's going to be great.

[jjkoestler]

Do NBA teams take out insurance on players? If so, Bogut must have a premium higher than a smoke jumper who moonlights as a stuntman with a history of drug and alcohol addiction.

[jjgott]

Bogut has a fractured ankle and is out indefinitely. This team is going to suck and it's going to be great.

I have to agree. We've been in NBA hell for the past few years (playing just good enough to miss out on the prime lottery spots). If we are going to turn the corner we can't keep picking in the 10-15 range. Let the team stink and try to reap the benefits of picking near the top.

[RockCoCougars]

Even without Bogut, this team will win enough games to fall out of the top five in ping pong balls. Heck they could probably go 0-for the rest of the season and not get the #1 spot. There are some truly terrible teams this season. Losing Bogut probably knocks them out of the playoffs and down to the 7-10 range. Tough to get excited about that.

[trwi7]

RockCoCougars wrote:

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Even without Bogut, this team will win enough games to fall out of the top five in ping pong balls. Heck they could probably go 0-for the rest of the season and not get the #1 spot. There are some truly terrible teams this season. Losing Bogut probably knocks them out of the playoffs and down to the 7-10 range. Tough to get excited about that.

I think you're seriously overestimating the talent on this team. Gooden will now be playing 30 minutes a night. That alone will cause our defense to be bad. Sure we'll have games like last night where Jackson and Gooden are actually making shots but this team is going to be bad.

[TooLiveBrew]

Do NBA teams take out insurance on players? If so, Bogut must have a premium higher than a smoke jumper who moonlights as a stuntman with a history of drug and alcohol addiction.

I have nothing to add, other than that this post is awesome.

[fondybrewfan]

I still don't think this team will be bad enough to get a Top #5 pick.

 

Detroit, Washington, Charlotte, New Orleans, and Sacramento seem to be locks to be worse than the Bucks and then teams like Cleveland, New Jersey, Toronto, & Golden State are all capable of tanking as well. My prediction is a #6 or #7.

[CheezWizHed]

He's not even the 2nd best center in the division at this point.

 

Maybe I should have said "2nd best talent". The problem is that he can never put a long enough stretch together to really make a claim to be one of the best centers. But these last two years, he has really stepped it up defensively. He is never going to be a 18-20 pt guy, which is maybe all you are looking at. But the Buck's defense is much improved because of him in the middle.

 

There are a few guys that have better stats than Bogut this year for the combination of points/rebounds/blocks, but Dwight Howard is the only one that is obviously better. And only Marc Gasol has been there with Bogut over the last couple years.

[brwrsfan]

Nice job putting the roster together Mr. Hammond. 15 players on the team and you can't fill even ONE of those spaces with a backup center? Gooden at center is laughable. I guess we could reach out to Joel Przybilla. I know he still lives in this area and is at least ok. Though the fact that nobody wanted him says something, considering he plays a premium position. He can't be worse than Gooden though.

[Baldkin]

There are a few guys that have better stats than Bogut this year for the combination of points/rebounds/blocks, but Dwight Howard is the only one that is obviously better. And only Marc Gasol has been there with Bogut over the last couple years.

What he did last year, when for 2/3 of the season he could barely lift his dominant hand over his shoulder was incredible. Had he played anywhere but Milwaukee and done that, he would've been heralded as the toughest guy in the NBA. Instead, no one talks about it.

I love the guy, but he isn't part of the future, so if they can get a first rounder for him.... they should take it.

[yoshii8]

Nice job putting the roster together Mr. Hammond. 15 players on the team and you can't fill even ONE of those spaces with a backup center? Gooden at center is laughable. I guess we could reach out to Joel Przybilla. I know he still lives in this area and is at least ok. Though the fact that nobody wanted him says something, considering he plays a premium position. He can't be worse than Gooden though.

I agree, Hammond should be fired immediatly for not getting a backup C. He shouldn't be able to touch this roster anymore.

 

There were a bunch of teams after Pryzbilla though, I guess he isn't sure he wants to play anymore.

 

[patrickgpe]

you can't fault the pick of bogut. big men are harder to find than point guards. The reason why guys like pryzbilla get picked so high or guys like deandre jordan makes 10 million a year is that there are not many good centers in the nba. Also its not like bogut isn't a top 10 center when healthy.

[bthurley19]

8-12 weeks for Bogut, with the shortened schedule that should just about put him out for the year.

[brwrsfan]

8 weeks would be late March sometime, with about 12-15 games still remaining I think. 12 weeks would be late April, which could mean very few games, if any remaining. If we're out of the playoff picture by then, there would be no point. If we're somehow still in it, he could be back in time to shake some rust off and play in the playoffs.

[JJHardy7]

Sam Cassell - traded former 11th overall pick Terrell Brandon for him.

 

Didn't we trade Vin Baker for Brandon? Baker was a high pick as well, but in addition to drafting well the Bucks were able to make some good trades as well. What was the last good trade the Bucks made?