Carpenter still very classy...

[FoxyFoxes]

I'm not one to pull the race card.....and it crossed my mind briefly. But then again, Nyjer has had big time issues with controlling his anger whereas i am not sure Carpenter has. Nyjer has dug a deeper hole than Chris Carpenter has with MLB.

[gregmag]

I think race has a lot to do with why an African-American with a "street" rep doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from the media and a lot of fans, and I think race has a lot to do with why white athletes have to do a lot worse before they get tagged as bad guys. I know people don't like to talk about race a lot, but I agree with joepepsi that it's relevant to the Carp-Morgan story. I may be wrong, of course, and I can't prove my thesis with data -- pollsters don't tend to test the underpinnings of baseball feuds. But I've seen the same pattern unfold enough times, in sports and elsewhere in society, that I believe there's a racial factor here that has to be part of the discussion. To be clear, I'm not accusing anyone concerned of overt racism. I think stuff like this is a matter of ingrained stereotypes that people almost never think about consciously.

[joepepsi]

gregmag1 hit the nail on the head. I don't believe it's an overt racism. It has more to do with a predominately white media and fan base that more easily identifies with players of the same background and ethnicity.

 

That's why a Brewer team with a lot of vocal, fun-loving African-Americans in recent years, is often seen a "not playing the game the right way", or showing up the other team. When white players do fist pumps, mob each other after game winning hits, scream and curse on the field, it's because they are fierce competitors.

[MJLiverock]

I think Carpenter gets more of a pass because of who plays for rather than being a white born again. Someone posted a link back when the Morgan Carpenter spat happened about a survey in SI that showed both Carpenter and Pujols getting more votes than Morgan from players on who they thought was the meanest or something like that. Carpenter, Molina, Pujols, LaRussa, Edmonds, were all allowed to act like a horse's butt over the years but all we hear is that STL is classy and the epitome of how baseball should be.

Generally they have a winning team so anyone who complains about them is a sore loser or not handling the spot light well, etc. I think back to Luckwik's comments about not knowing how hated the Cardinals were until he got traded. Fans of other teams and players of other teams are well aware of the jerkiness of the players but then national guys like the Joe Buck and Peter Gammons of the world who don't see them everyday act like they are saints and provide cover for them.

 

Anytime I mention a jerk play like last night to a Cardinal fan it is always refuted because Carpenter has Cy Young or WS ring as if talent excuses him from being called out for his antics. Same thing when Nyjer got into with them or Phillips it was how many rings do they have or how many MVPs?

[billyhallfan]

does anyone have Ludwick's official quotes? I can't seem to find that article and am trying to reference it?

[thebruce44]

Nyjer is African American and Carpenter is a white, born again Christian. But we aren't a racist country.

 

Wow. Way to pull race and religion into something that had nothing to do with either...

Hes playing the race card because its the correct card to play in this instance.

[chadomac]

Hes playing the race card because its the correct card to play in this instance.

Yep. A born-again-Christian white dude is going to get a longer leash than a black guy with a big personality.

[Kricket755]

Nyjer is African American and Carpenter is a white, born again Christian. But we aren't a racist country.

 

Wow. Way to pull race and religion into something that had nothing to do with either...

Hes playing the race card because its the correct card to play in this instance.

Its also the easiest card to play in any situation.

 

I am not sure why anyone would wonder why Nyjer would not get the benfit of the doubt in a situation like that. I love him, but he has a big mouth and is one of the craziest athletes in all of sports. Regardless of color, he isn't going to come out looking good. Look at Nyjer's postgame comments. Nyjer does not want the benefit of the doubt.

 

Nyjer does not care what the media thinks of him. Carpenter clearly does. I would think this is much more relevant to the topic than the race of the players.

 

 

[CheezWizHed]

Hes playing the race card because its the correct card to play in this instance.

 

Exactly, because Mike Napoli is ... oh wait a minute...

[joepepsi]

Hes playing the race card because its the correct card to play in this instance.

 

Exactly, because Mike Napoli is ... oh wait a minute...

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

[thebruce44]

Hes playing the race card because its the correct card to play in this instance.

 

Exactly, because Mike Napoli is ... oh wait a minute...

There was a someone's word against someone else's word situation with the Napoli incident...oh wait a minute...

[CheezWizHed]

you lost me. In both cases, CC swore at Nyjer and Napoli. In both cases the national media tended to defend CC. If Nyger is African-American and Napoli is Caucasian, how is that racist? Its crazy and irrational, but not racist.

 

At least we know CC isn't racist. He is an equal opportunity swearer.

[sdcheezhd]

I hate to go there, but. African Americans were a bigger part of the Brewers' identity in 08 and this year than any other recent playoff team I can think of. CC (not Counsell, the other guy), Prince, Cameron, Weeks, Nyjer. I can't think of a single significant black player on the Cardinals since Willie McGee and Ozzie Smith. Go back to their 64 and 67 teams and the difference with today is even more pronounced. Is Jay the only black on the team now? Last year I think they had zero. None I can think of on their 08 team. And Phillips and Morgan seem to be the #1 bad guys for them, although they don't seem to like Braun either. But I can't help thinking it has something to do with their attitude.

[thebruce44]

you lost me. In both cases, CC swore at Nyjer and Napoli. In both cases the national media tended to defend CC. If Nyger is African-American and Napoli is Caucasian, how is that racist? Its crazy and irrational, but not racist.

 

At least we know CC isn't racist. He is an equal opportunity swearer.

Nothing negative has been directed at Napoli like it was at Nyjer. Totally different situation.

[joepepsi]

Well, I assumed Edwin Jackson is African-American. I see he was born in Germany and went to high school in Georgia. So, maybe he's an Army brat? Arthur Rhodes was born in Texas.

 

There aren't a lot of African- Americans in MLB anymore. Not compared to the 1970's and 1980's. Since the arrival of Hall, Weeks, Prince, the Brewers have had an unusual number of black players on their roster compared to other teams. It has been a prominent part of their identity. The typical starting lineup for this year's playoff featured 4 African Americans, Prince, Weeks, Nyjer, and Hairston.

 

you lost me. In both cases, CC swore at Nyjer and Napoli. In both cases the national media tended to defend CC. If Nyger is African-American and Napoli is Caucasian, how is that racist? Its crazy and irrational, but not racist.

 

At least we know CC isn't racist. He is an equal opportunity swearer.

My point is not who Chris Carpenter was swearing at. It's that Morgan is labeled a bad guy and Carpenter a "tough competitor". Why is such a big deal that Morgan is swearing at Carpenter or talking it up with Giants' fans, but when Carpenter is caught cursing on the field, national media "pundits' run to their twitter accounts to defend the guy? White players tend to get a pass more readily than African Americans.

[CheezWizHed]

Nyjer also threw his tobacco wad and swore back. The negative press reaction was to that. Wasn't until later that the press even realized CC swore at Nyjer.

 

To my knowledge, Napoli didn't even acknowledge CC swearing at him. I could be wrong on that, I didn't see it live.

 

The thing that blows my mind is that CC does this twice. And the talking heads on the post-game are trying to rationalize it.

[MJLiverock]

When I was searching on the web for the Ludwick quote I found plenty of references to Carpenter's yelling at batters. Apparently he had issues with Carlos Lee slamming his bat down after popping out and said a similar line as he used on Morgan and Napoli as well as a few words in another situation with Adam LaRoche. So I would say neither the Morgan or Napoli shout outs are isolated incidents when it comes to Carpenter.

[Baldkin]

 

Zack Greinke said:

"They think his presence, his attitude out there sometimes is like a
phony attitude," Greinke said. "And then he yells at people. He just
stares people down and stuff. And most pitchers just don't do that. And
when guys do, I guess some hitters get mad. Some hitters do it to
pitchers. But when you do that some people will get mad.

"There's
other pitchers in the league that do it, but, I don't know," Greinke
said, "a lot of guys on our team don't like Carpenter."

 

[logan82]

Apparently he had issues with Carlos Lee slamming his bat down after popping out

 

That was a big one last year if I remember correctly. Link

[joepepsi]

The thing that blows my mind is that CC does this twice. And the talking heads on the post-game are trying to rationalize it.

I agree. From what I've seen in the past, it seems skin color often plays a role in how these stories play out. Maybe you disagree.

[NeedMoreFans]

Sorry for posting a GIF, but here is his tirade. It's pretty clear he is yelling at himself.

 

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/762236/carp.gif

[dlk9s]

He's just trying to make sure the bullpen can hear him.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

Don't most pitchers call themselves POS after getting a long fly ball outs to end an inning. Can I explain this to Chris Carpenter's kid?

[pretendastronaut]

He's just trying to make sure the bullpen can hear him.

 

Hahaha. Well played, well played.

[hawing]

Reason number 27443 to maintain my fan crush on Jim Powell:

 

@Jim_Powell

Jim Powell

 

 

Turns out Nyjer and Greinke were spot on. Carpenter berates Napoli w/ profanity-laced explosion: bit.ly/sC79cM #[/s]rangers #[/s]brewers #[/s]mlb

https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23mlb

Hmph!