Trade Value of Nyjer Morgan

[jjkoestler]

Nyjer put up .357/.421/.778, 4.0 WAR , became a fan favorite, and is affordable for several years. Do you think the Brewers should sell high on him? If so, what could they expect in return?

[PrinceEatMeat]

I would definitely sell high on him. We started discussing this in the 2012 lineup thread. Anyways, I'd be fine with Gomez as our everyday CF as long as he hits 8th. People just got down on him when he hit 2nd, but his defense and base-running would be outstanding to have in the everyday lineup. Especially at the price he will come at. We have Schafer as a potential platoon mate in CF anyway. I think we could get pretty good value for Morgan right now. Not sure what we'd target, but I'm sure teams would be interested.

[yoshii8]

I don't think his trade value is worth what he brings to the team. I say keep him, I love what he brings to the table most of the time.

[RockCoCougars]

If you ask me, I'd say Morgan has a very low trade value. He may be loved in Milwaukee, but most of the rest of baseball considers him a 'head case' at best, a 'cancer' at worst. No reason in trading a cheap controlled player like him at this point.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, the Brewers have Morgan under salary control (& likely cheap, given that he's a platoon guy) through 2015. I'd rather they kept him, since he's a useful bat v. RHP & good defender.

[CheezWizHed]

History

- Played for Pittsburgh. Personality rubbed people the wrong way. Ended poorly, but not really bad.

- Played for Washington. Again, personality issues wore out his welcome after 1.5 seasons. Traded to Brewers for a mid-level draft pick (I might like Little Pine, but his ceiling is probably Nyjer Morgan).

- Nyger has only one poor season (out of 5) on the field. So its not his play that is necessarily the problem.

 

This year:

- Strong bounce back year on the field (from his only poor year).

- Found a niche where his quirky personality is accepted and even a cult following.

- Plays a spark plug role for the team and seems to be well liked by players and coaches.

 

With all of that and you were a GM and finds out DM is shopping Morgan, wouldn't red flags flap wildly? You mean even in a place where he is well liked and played well, they don't want him?

 

If he is part of a larger trade package, I can see it, but otherwise, I think he would need at least two strong years (with maybe Schafer pushing him out) before he has high trade value.

[endaround]

Morgan was Dykstra, Hairston was Komatsu.

[pingman]

I don't think his trade value will ever be higher....

[The Truth]

The Brewers don't have much of a history of selling high under Melvin (see Hardy JJ or McGehee or Bill Hall). They'll keep him. And I predict he'll regress a little and his antics won't be quite so "cool" with a .270 BA and average fielding

[monty57]

He's always been someone who can get on base, and realizes that he's best used in a platoon role. I think we're going to be in the running for the playoffs next year, and trading Nyjer would likely be a step backwards. We could very well already have two rookies starting next season, and after next year, Gomez will be gone and Schafer will probably be ready to step in to an everyday role, so I'd wait until then to consider trading Morgan.

[logan82]

Why will Gomez be gone?

[Mike]

Why will Gomez be gone?

Perhaps what Monty is referring to is that Gomez is Arbitration eligible now and are they not one year deals? If so, then Schafer, Gindl or someone else would be a cheaper and better option in 2013.

 

However, I still hope Gomez is gone before 2012 because even batting 8th I don't need a .220 hitter. Keep Morgan or Gomez (for defense and PR only), but not both.

 

 

[Raw Biz]

Why will Gomez be gone?

Perhaps what Monty is referring to is that Gomez is Arbitration eligible now and are they not one year deals? If so, then Schafer, Gindl or someone else would be a cheaper and better option in 2013.

 

However, I still hope Gomez is gone before 2012 because even batting 8th I don't need a .220 hitter. Keep Morgan or Gomez (for defense and PR only), but not both.

 

Again Gomez's value on defense alone is enough justification to keep him. And he's not simply a .220 hitter. Yes that's what he did this year but he's a career .243 hitter with an OBP close to .300. Obviously not great but not terrible for a guy hitting at the bottom of the lineup. Plus, he's a solid platoon candidate since he hit .278 off LHP this year (though career numbers against RHP & LHP are actually almost identical). And he will only be 26 next year whereas Morgan will be 32. Gomez has way more value than Morgan so if I had to choose, I'll take Gomez.

[The Truth]

Again Gomez's value on defense alone is enough justification to keep him. And he's not simply a .220 hitter. Yes that's what he did this year but he's a career .243 hitter with an OBP close to .300. Obviously not great but not terrible for a guy hitting at the bottom of the lineup. Plus, he's a solid platoon candidate since he hit .278 off LHP this year (though career numbers against RHP & LHP are actually almost identical). And he will only be 26 next year whereas Morgan will be 32. Gomez has way more value than Morgan so if I had to choose, I'll take Gomez.

Absolutely correct on all points, in my opinion. The Brewers were a completely different team when Gomez was on defense. Defense is extremely important, and its perhaps even moreso important at CF on the Brewers when surrounded by poor defense throughout most of the rest of the field. Maybe they add a Gold Glove caliber SS and Gamel ends up being great defensively at 1B (I think he might) and then you can start to justify a poorer defender in CF like Morgan but I really don't think so...great teams usually have great defense up the middle

 

And while its a small sample, Gomez hit better than Morgan in the post-season...

[PrinceEatMeat]

Why will Gomez be gone?

Perhaps what Monty is referring to is that Gomez is Arbitration eligible now and are they not one year deals? If so, then Schafer, Gindl or someone else would be a cheaper and better option in 2013.

 

However, I still hope Gomez is gone before 2012 because even batting 8th I don't need a .220 hitter. Keep Morgan or Gomez (for defense and PR only), but not both.

 

Again Gomez's value on defense alone is enough justification to keep him. And he's not simply a .220 hitter. Yes that's what he did this year but he's a career .243 hitter with an OBP close to .300. Obviously not great but not terrible for a guy hitting at the bottom of the lineup. Plus, he's a solid platoon candidate since he hit .278 off LHP this year (though career numbers against RHP & LHP are actually almost identical). And he will only be 26 next year whereas Morgan will be 32. Gomez has way more value than Morgan so if I had to choose, I'll take Gomez.

Completely agree. I don't understand the people arguing that Gomez has no value just because he had a bad year at the plate. Getting him for his projected value of around $1.8 million in arbitration is a steal. His defense and baserunning alone is worth that price. He has potential at the plate, and wouldn't be much of a liability if he's hitting in the 8 hole. I also like him over Morgan if I had to take one, but I'd prefer to stay with the platoon at least for now. They are perfect platoon partners.

[logan82]

Only in a sentence with Gomez should Morgan be called a poorer defender. The guy is still above average in CF.

[paul253]

I don't think his trade value will ever be higher....

 

I don't think that means it's "high" though. If he were 23 or 24 maybe, but the guy is 31 years old. I'd keep him one more year and then give Logan Schafer his job. He is a solid stop gap for us. Hopefully Schafer continues to stay healthy and progress. Injuries are the only thing that have stopped him.

[endaround]

In what universe is a 4 win player a stop gap? And I don't buy Schader's power at AAA from last season.

[Mike]

PrinceEatMeat[/b]]

Gomez has way more value than Morgan so if I had to choose, I'll take Gomez.

I'm out numbered for sure in this thread, but other than Carlos being 5 years younger than Gomez I disagree with Princes' statement. If Gomez has "way more value than Morgan", then why does he only start against LH's? My point is other than PR and defense he can't compare to Morgan or other available options. I don't like either the more I think about it. An earlier poster said Morgan is more of a .270 hitter to which I agree. If so his defense and arm really are not that good and the schtick will wear thin. Keep Morgan and pick someone else up.

In addition the baseball IQ for both are below average to say the least. Mental errors hurt too.

[PrinceEatMeat]

PrinceEatMeat[/b]]

Gomez has way more value than Morgan so if I had to choose, I'll take Gomez.

I'm out numbered for sure in this thread, but other than Carlos being 5 years younger than Gomez I disagree with Princes' statement. If Gomez has "way more value than Morgan", then why does he only start against LH's? My point is other than PR and defense he can't compare to Morgan or other available options. I don't like either the more I think about it. An earlier poster said Morgan is more of a .270 hitter to which I agree. If so his defense and arm really are not that good and the schtick will wear thin. Keep Morgan and pick someone else up.

In addition the baseball IQ for both are below average to say the least. Mental errors hurt too.

I think what you need to consider is who would look better as an everyday player. Gomez's defense and running ability can't be matched. Morgan can't hit LHP (.201 career), but Gomez is pretty much even in his career against LHP and RHP (.244/.242). Granted Morgan may end up with a slightly higher average (.310 vs RHP), Gomez is more valuable due to his fielding and running. As an everyday player in the 8 hole, I take Gomez every time. Plus, he's younger and has a better chance to improve. Also, if you are taking one right now, you have a possible replacement for Morgan is necessary in Schafer. Don't have that to replace Gomez.

[Raw Biz]

PrinceEatMeat[/b]]I'm out numbered for sure in this thread, but other than Carlos being 5 years younger than Gomez I disagree with Princes' statement. If Gomez has "way more value than Morgan", then why does he only start against LH's? My point is other than PR and defense he can't compare to Morgan or other available options. I don't like either the more I think about it. An earlier poster said Morgan is more of a .270 hitter to which I agree. If so his defense and arm really are not that good and the schtick will wear thin. Keep Morgan and pick someone else up.

In addition the baseball IQ for both are below average to say the least. Mental errors hurt too.

I think what you need to consider is who would look better as an everyday player. Gomez's defense and running ability can't be matched. Morgan can't hit LHP (.201 career), but Gomez is pretty much even in his career against LHP and RHP (.244/.242). Granted Morgan may end up with a slightly higher average (.310 vs RHP), Gomez is more valuable due to his fielding and running. As an everyday player in the 8 hole, I take Gomez every time. Plus, he's younger and has a better chance to improve. Also, if you are taking one right now, you have a possible replacement for Morgan is necessary in Schafer. Don't have that to replace Gomez.

Exactly. Mike said "My point is other than PR and defense he can't compare to Morgan or other available options." So basically Morgan gets on base better but Gomez is better once he's on and he's better at defense? I would agree there but I think you're undervaluing how important defense is. Players play defense half the time. I think Gomez makes up for any runs lost on offense by saving a bunch more on defense.

As far as Morgan starting over Gomez against RHP, that's what a good manager would do if he had both those players. But the conversation was if you had to choose only one to keep for the future, who would it be. Since Gomez is 6 years younger and a better defender (not to mention he doesn't carry the stigma that Morgan does), I'll take Gomez.

 

[paul253]

In what universe is a 4 win player a stop gap? And I don't buy Schader's power at AAA from last season.

 

The kind of universe where the guy will be 32 years old after next season, has been traded away from multiple teams because he becomes a distraction in the clubhouse, is starting to get to his expensive years and you have a capable in-house replacement with a ceiling equal to or higher than the current player. How long do you think we should hang on to Morgan? I like Morgan as much as the next guy but he's not a franchise cornerstone anymore.

 

And who cares about Schafer's power numbers? He's a center fielder and probably an upgrade defensively from Morgan, which says a lot. I'm more concerned about his on base numbers considering where he'd likely be hitting in the order (1st, 2nd, or 8th). Worry about Braun, Weeks and Hart's power numbers.

[endaround]

No he's most likely a down grade defensively,and offensively. And power matters everywhere.

[monty57]

Why will Gomez be gone?

 

I said "after next year Gomez will be gone." I may be mistaken, but won't 2012 be his 3rd year of arby? If not, then it's my mistake.

 

Regardless, I think the Gomez vs Morgan debate is a year premature. If we're starting (or giving a lot of playing time to) Green & Gamel (and I think financially that may be a necessity), then I highly doubt we would start/platoon a 3rd rookie in Schafer. At $1.8-1.9MM each, Morgan and Gomez provide good value to the 2012 Brewers, and Schafer provides good AAA depth. This is important, as we should still be making a strong push at the playoffs in 2012.

 

Edit: I do see in Brewerfan's salary page that Gomez will be arby eligible (and therefore Brewers "property") for 2012 and 2013, so I was wrong.

[logan82]

Why will Gomez be gone?

 

I said "after next year Gomez will be gone." I may be mistaken, but won't 2012 be his 3rd year of arby? If not, then it's my mistake.

 

Regardless, I think the Gomez vs Morgan debate is a year premature. If we're starting (or giving a lot of playing time to) Green & Gamel (and I think financially that may be a necessity), then I highly doubt we would start/platoon a 3rd rookie in Schafer. At $1.8-1.9MM each, Morgan and Gomez provide good value to the 2012 Brewers, and Schafer provides good AAA depth. This is important, as we should still be making a strong push at the playoffs in 2012.

 

Edit: I do see in Brewerfan's salary page that Gomez will be arby eligible (and therefore Brewers "property") for 2012 and 2013, so I was wrong.

I thought you may be assuming a Morgan trade. Gomez was a super 2 so he has 4 arby years. I agree that it shouldn't be Morgan vs Gomez. We should keep both and platoon them. At least until Schafer is ready. CF was a position of strength this year. Probably the only position where we got both above average offense and defense. I say don't touch it.