Please do not sign Fielder thread

[Hate those Rodents]

The easiest way to about this off-season, and maybe the smartest, is to do the following

 

1. Sign Reyes and let prince walk

2. Go with Gamel/Green/McGhee combo at first and third

3. Resign as many guys as we can afford (Hairston, bullpen, etc)

4. Work on Greinke extension

5. Complete just one proactive trade (Hart, Marcum, Wolf)

[dlk9s]

I think any criticisms of Prince base running are silly. He's slow, but he's not a bad base runner. He's a big, burly power hitter - guys like that aren't often speedsters.

[nate82]

I wonder if there is no market for Prince what will happen. If the Brewers can get Prince for that 5 year $100m deal they offered before that wouldn't be all that bad depending on how the Brewers management uses his salary. Will Mark A take on Prince's salary personally and then give Melvin a team payroll?

[kramnoj]

Will Mark A take on Prince's salary personally and then give Melvin a team payroll?

 

No, that wouldn't happen.

 

If Fielder isn't blown away by the market, he can have Boras come back to the Brewers with a deal that gives Prince an opt out after 2 or 3 years. Melvin waited for CC to sign with NY, I wouldn't be surprised if he let certain possible FA targets that the Brewers might have interest in them (Reyes, Barmes), but they wouldn't be ready to commit until Fielder makes a decision.

[brewmann04]

I disagree i think the Melvin and Mark will be proactive this time and won't to long for Prince.

[homer]

You can't build a team for the post season. You build a team to GET to the post season and hope they can go all the way.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The easiest way to about this off-season, and maybe the smartest, is to do the following

 

1. Sign Reyes and let prince walk

2. Go with Gamel/Green/McGhee combo at first and third

3. Resign as many guys as we can afford (Hairston, bullpen, etc)

4. Work on Greinke extension

5. Complete just one proactive trade (Hart, Marcum, Wolf)

I'm on board with this strategy.

[homer]

Balanced lineups get you balanced teams, half wins, half losses. Elite

hitters in the middle of your lineup get you into the postseason with

middle of the pack pitching. The Cubs had a balanced lineup this year.

Where did that get them?

What is a balanced lineup anyway????

 

The fact of the matter is, the Brewers had a decent lineup and good pitching. In the playoffs, the pitching abandoned them for whatever reason.

 

If the Brewers want to contend again next year they need to improve the defense and the lineup. Changing out the SS and 3B will go a long ways towards doing just that.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The easiest way to about this off-season, and maybe the smartest, is to do the following

 

1. Sign Reyes and let prince walk

2. Go with Gamel/Green/McGhee combo at first and third

3. Resign as many guys as we can afford (Hairston, bullpen, etc)

4. Work on Greinke extension

5. Complete just one proactive trade (Hart, Marcum, Wolf)

I'm on board with this strategy.

I like this as well, but I don't believe we'll be able to get Reyes. We definitely need an upgrade at SS, but so do many teams and the market is shallow...I have this sinking feeling that Yuni will be back, although I hope they let someone else get sucked in by the playoff run he had. A 2.0 WAR like Barmes would work. Gamel/Green/Hairston/McGehee could be an interesting 1B/3B platoon, with Hairston as a super sub as well. They need a RH bat off the bench. I'd extend Greinke...it's our only chance to get him at a decent price. They need to have a base level of pitching with Greinke/Yo they'd be set. I'd trade any of those guys mentioned if we can get an upgrade...Hart's days in the OF may be done, so trading a Green or Gamel if they can get value and move Hart to 1B is ok too. Wolf may have some value, Marcum's may be impaired. They could always wait to trade one during the year if they aren't in it...if they can do better than the comp picks.

I'd keep throwing arms at that bullpen as well...I'd offer arby to KRod too, eve though he won't take it and I wouldn't mind if he did. Saito would be a good one to get back, but you have to treat him with kid gloves and hope the age time bomb doesn't go off.

 

They won't be the favorite, but they can probably go into the year with an expected 85 win team and see what happens.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

I think that The Brewers owner saying he'll try his all to re sign Fielder is very similar to his trying his best to re sign Sabathia. He knows it won't happen, but he'll do his best to gesture to the fans. Probably make a few offers he knows that the bigger market teams will beat.

 

It's also similar to Carlos Beltrans free agency from several years ago. Beltran stated that he wanted to stay in a smaller market like Houston. Boras didn't want that to happen. I'm not sure if Fielder has the same small market mentaility, but even if he did, Boras likes his big name guys in big markets. The elite players can make more money than what they do on the field, and Milwaukee may be a great baseball town, there is not as much out of town interest to make money like cities like New York, Boston, LA, and Chicago. Baseball players may not be as marketable as basketball and football players, but if they're real stars, they can come close. Ryan Brauns a guy who probably could have been up there with A Rod and Jeter in terms of off the field marketability had he not signed his contract through eternity and waited a few years for the Yankees or Red Sox to come calling.

[Ennder]

600 PA is a small sample when you are talking about WAR, 194 PA is tiny.

 

I don't think Fielder is the right move for the franchise personally.

[SconnieKid]

194 is NOT a small sample size

 

It is when you consider that only 44 of those at bats have come in the past two seasons. The most AB's he gotten in a season is 128. That's what, a quarter of a season? If Caleb Gindl came up next season and only hit .225 through 40 games would you declare he's had his chance and we need to let him go? When Gamel did get a decent number of AB's, he had an OBP of .338. It's not earth shattering but it's something, especially for a rookie who got irregular playing time. Also, he's poor defensively at third base but I doubt his future in Milwaukee is at third. I can only assume, but I would think he's better defensively at first or right field. You have to see what you've got with Gamel before you just cast him aside. They don't have nearly enough impact bats in the minors to throw a potential one away without at least giving him an every day status in the spring. I think the same thing with Green. Give him a shot and see what happens. You can always use Jerry Hairston as your everyday third basemen if he doesn't cut it.

Everything here. 194 PA of sporadic playing time over 3 years is definitely small sample. And I think Gamel would be an upgrade defensively at 1st.

 

Could you have more reliable figures with a larger sample? Sure. But if someone is at or below replacement for that period its going to stick. You just won't be able to convince me that he is going to be a successful everyday player.

 

We are talking about how to replace Prince and we are talking about 1B that is right at replacement. Thats just not going to get it done.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

Yeah, but what if the money saved on Prince, probably at least 20 mil/year for 6-7 years, and that's with a home town discount allows you to sign Carlos Pena for 1B for 2-3 years and a suitable replacement at either SS or 3B, like Rollins or Reyes for 4-5 years? Also, Greinke and Marcum are both FA after 2012, and if you re up Prince, you may not be able to afford either and the rotation may well look like it did in '09-'10 and you have a steaming pile of awful at 3B and SS?

[trwi7]

Any team that signs Rollins for 4-5 years is stupid.

[adamb100]

If we dont sign Fielder (and I know we wont) we need another big bat in our line up. Our offense will take a huge hit without someone.

[fondybrewfan]

Has there ever been a 6-7-8 year deal that actually worked for the entire length of the contract? You would think teams would start to get a clue that perhaps 6+ year deals just aren't good ideas unless the last couple of years are team options.

[RightFieldCoder]

We don't need a big bat if we mitigate the loss at other spots (3B and SS being the top of the list).

[joepepsi]

Has there ever been a 6-7-8 year deal that actually worked for the entire length of the contract? You would think teams would start to get a clue that perhaps 6+ year deals just aren't good ideas unless the last couple of years are team options.

Manny Ramirez' original 8 year deal with Boston worked for the length of the contract. At least from the perspective he was still hitting at a top level in all 8 seasons. I'd have to go back and check, but depending on how you look at it, Arod certainly played HOF caliber during the 10 years of his original 10 contract with Texas. Jeter and Rivera maintained their level of play for their multi year deals.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

Has there ever been a 6-7-8 year deal that actually worked for the entire length of the contract? You would think teams would start to get a clue that perhaps 6+ year deals just aren't good ideas unless the last couple of years are team options.

 

I was thinking that same thing. There are guys like Holliday, Teixara, and A Rod who the jury's still out on, but looking at guys like Soriano, Vernon Wells, and Zito as examples, they don't tend to. Soriano gave the Cubs 2 great years, and is still productive but way overpaid. Zito was stealing money from the get go. Dunn, Crawford and Werth arent looking good either. The thing is, a lot of guys who get these deals are about 30 by the time they get the, In these cases, you're lucky to get 3-4 prime years, and then hope they gradually decline after that rather than falling off a cliff.

 

With Fielder, however, he'd be 28 to start next season, and if given a 7 year deal he'd be 35 at the end. It's not inconceivable that they could all be good years, however, the question is defense. His D has always beem questionalble at best, and by the time he hits the 30's, he could need to DH somewhere.

[xisxisxis]

if the plan is to go all in next year i would do the following:

 

1) get a RH decent defensuve RF. move Hart to 1B and platoon gamel/ new Rf, OR, get a decent RH defensive 1B and platoon gamel at 1B.

2) get a super defense SS with the range to get to liners down the 3B line, bat almost irrelevant but with a hint of obp skills.

3) platoon the current black hole 3B with taylor green. casey should never face a RH pitcher and should be yanked for defense late in the game.

4) bullpen - keep Saito, get 2 decent RH to replace hawkins and FRod. turn parra into a reliever and see if he can be successful as a loogy, also see if braddock can be resurrected. keep estrada for long. prralta in AAA as insurance for the rotation and possible replacement of wolf in 2013.

5) platoon morgan/gomez in Cf.

[Samurai Bucky]

How long have we had issues with a leadoff hitter? I would like to see us, somehow, get that shored up. If Jose Reyes is the answer, then let's see how that goes. We kill two birds with one stone: we get a good leadoff hitter, and we improve greatly at SS. Heck, maybe Rafael Furcal might be a better option than Yuni.

I also think we need to do something to shore up third base. One of the reasons why Braun is in left is because he had hands of stone at third. Casey Mc-EEE needs to be dealt or needs to be put on the pines. I don't know if Aramis is a good choice -- probably too expensive and too old?

Shore up the defense at Short and Third and get a leadoff hitter. That would help big time.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

Has there ever been a 6-7-8 year deal that actually worked for the entire length of the contract? You would think teams would start to get a clue that perhaps 6+ year deals just aren't good ideas unless the last couple of years are team options.

 

I was thinking that same thing. There are guys like Holliday, Teixara, and A Rod who the jury's still out on, but looking at guys like Soriano, Vernon Wells, and Zito as examples, they don't tend to. Soriano gave the Cubs 2 great years, and is still productive but way overpaid. Zito was stealing money from the get go. Dunn, Crawford and Werth arent looking good either. The thing is, a lot of guys who get these deals are about 30 by the time they get the, In these cases, you're lucky to get 3-4 prime years, and then hope they gradually decline after that rather than falling off a cliff.

 

With Fielder, however, he'd be 28 to start next season, and if given a 7 year deal he'd be 35 at the end. It's not inconceivable that they could all be good years, however, the question is defense. His D has always beem questionalble at best, and by the time he hits the 30's, he could need to DH somewhere.

To be honest, with a small-mid market team, going all in isnt a great idea, especially when you don't have much of a farm system. This was the all in year with Fielder. At this point, I think that the smart thing to do would be to try and trade Marcum and maybe Gamel to re-stock the farm system. Maybe even hope you can trick someone into thinking that Casey McGhee is still a good player. I bet the Yankees, Red Sox, or Cubs would pay a handsome price for Marcum. Might even be able to get Montero out of it if you kick in LuCroy. Or perhaps try to swing a deal with The Reds for what's his face who's being blocked by Votto and can't play OF to save his life. With 2. Morgan, 3. Braun, 4. Hart, and 5. Weeks, the heart of the lineup would be as good as most in the NL. Carlos Pena would be a pretty good bat to add unless you go for the Reds guy, and it might be smart to jump on him early while the big money teams are battling it out for Fielder and Pujols, who sadly, I don't see leaving St. Louis. Try to then extend Greinke. Might even want to stop there, in which case 2012 might not be the most fun season for you, but you'd at least have a solid young core to build around.

[Raw Biz]

194 is NOT a small sample size

 

It is when you consider that only 44 of those at bats have come in the past two seasons. The most AB's he gotten in a season is 128. That's what, a quarter of a season? If Caleb Gindl came up next season and only hit .225 through 40 games would you declare he's had his chance and we need to let him go? When Gamel did get a decent number of AB's, he had an OBP of .338. It's not earth shattering but it's something, especially for a rookie who got irregular playing time. Also, he's poor defensively at third base but I doubt his future in Milwaukee is at third. I can only assume, but I would think he's better defensively at first or right field. You have to see what you've got with Gamel before you just cast him aside. They don't have nearly enough impact bats in the minors to throw a potential one away without at least giving him an every day status in the spring. I think the same thing with Green. Give him a shot and see what happens. You can always use Jerry Hairston as your everyday third basemen if he doesn't cut it.

Everything here. 194 PA of sporadic playing time over 3 years is definitely small sample. And I think Gamel would be an upgrade defensively at 1st.

 

Could you have more reliable figures with a larger sample? Sure. But if someone is at or below replacement for that period its going to stick. You just won't be able to convince me that he is going to be a successful everyday player.

 

We are talking about how to replace Prince and we are talking about 1B that is right at replacement. Thats just not going to get it done.

If you don't think Gamel will be a successful everyday player because of how you've seen him play (i.e. don't like his swing, approach, etc.), fine I understand that. But don't use a tiny sample size in sporadic playing time and call him replacement level because of it. Jose Bautista OPSed .502, .404, .755, .753, .718, and .757 in his first 6 seasons, a much larger sample size. Then he OPSed .995 and .1.056. So he was at or below replacement level for at least 3 of his first 6 seasons and that "didn't stick."

[paul253]

We are talking about how to replace Prince and we are talking about

1B that is right at replacement. Thats just not going to get it done.

 

No one player is going to replace Fielder's offensive numbers. Someone else already mentioned it but you have to hope to replace him by upgrading several other positions. There are a lot of options but they all hold some risk. The obvious option is to replace Fielder with Gamel. I doubt this will happen because despite his numbers is AAA this season Milwaukee just doesn't seem like they want him in their lineup. Another option is to move Hart to first and then get a new rightfielder. There don't seem to be a whole lot of attractive FA outfielders out there though so you may be stuck with a platoon. If you're going to spend big on a free agent, I think it has to be a shortstop (Reyes or Rollins) or a third basemen (Ramirez, but I'd only sign him to a two year deal).

 

I still think a big trade needs to be made. Marcum or Hart would be my most likely candidates. I'd love to see if someone overvalues one of them and will give us something good in return.

[Raw Biz]

Has there ever been a 6-7-8 year deal that actually worked for the entire length of the contract? You would think teams would start to get a clue that perhaps 6+ year deals just aren't good ideas unless the last couple of years are team options.

 

I was thinking that same thing. There are guys like Holliday, Teixara, and A Rod who the jury's still out on, but looking at guys like Soriano, Vernon Wells, and Zito as examples, they don't tend to. Soriano gave the Cubs 2 great years, and is still productive but way overpaid. Zito was stealing money from the get go. Dunn, Crawford and Werth arent looking good either. The thing is, a lot of guys who get these deals are about 30 by the time they get the, In these cases, you're lucky to get 3-4 prime years, and then hope they gradually decline after that rather than falling off a cliff.

 

With Fielder, however, he'd be 28 to start next season, and if given a 7 year deal he'd be 35 at the end. It's not inconceivable that they could all be good years, however, the question is defense. His D has always beem questionalble at best, and by the time he hits the 30's, he could need to DH somewhere.

To be honest, with a small-mid market team, going all in isnt a great idea, especially when you don't have much of a farm system. This was the all in year with Fielder. At this point, I think that the smart thing to do would be to try and trade Marcum and maybe Gamel to re-stock the farm system. Maybe even hope you can trick someone into thinking that Casey McGhee is still a good player. I bet the Yankees, Red Sox, or Cubs would pay a handsome price for Marcum. Might even be able to get Montero out of it if you kick in LuCroy. Or perhaps try to swing a deal with The Reds for what's his face who's being blocked by Votto and can't play OF to save his life. With 2. Morgan, 3. Braun, 4. Hart, and 5. Weeks, the heart of the lineup would be as good as most in the NL. Carlos Pena would be a pretty good bat to add unless you go for the Reds guy, and it might be smart to jump on him early while the big money teams are battling it out for Fielder and Pujols, who sadly, I don't see leaving St. Louis. Try to then extend Greinke. Might even want to stop there, in which case 2012 might not be the most fun season for you, but you'd at least have a solid young core to build around.

I don't believe that just this year was all-in. Next year they will lose Prince but still have all of their SP which is one of the main reasons they won as much as they did. And I think replacing the combo of Prince/Yuni/McGehee won't be as hard as it seems because of how bad Yuni & McGehee were. As far as re-stocking the farm system, they will have Jungmann and Bradley from this year and possibly an extra 4-5 picks in the first couple of rounds next year.