Please do not sign Fielder thread

[jjkoestler]

Most of the teams talking to Boras about Fielder don't want to commit to the seven or eight-year contract Fielder desires, topping out at five years

 

Seems odd teams were willing to pay Albert big money through age 41, but no one wants to go past 32 for Fielder.

 

Maybe for LA as FL it was that "Fielder can't drive the Latin market"?

Doesn't a winner drive any market? This seems odd to me as well.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The comments from the Brewers seem to be versed between "showing Prince respect for his time here and trying to put a good face on the commitment to fans" and "being really sick of agents using them to bid up offers they can take to places they really want to play".

[clancyphile]

I say go... offer six years, $120 million. With Pujols to the Angels, this is Milwaukee's chance to seize and hold the high ground for 2012-2016 in the NL Central.

[fondybrewfan]

Plus Albert is really like 35 years old. Prince still has atleast 3 years of his prime coming up yet and hasn't really gained any weight over the years either (At least that I recall). Giving 6 years to Prince seems a lot safer than giving 10 to Pujols.

[clancyphile]

Plus Albert is really like 35 years old. Prince still has atleast 3 years of his prime coming up yet and hasn't really gained any weight over the years either (At least that I recall). Giving 6 years to Prince seems a lot safer than giving 10 to Pujols.

Seriously... a six-year deal could do it to keep Prince here... AND if they can get Prince to defer some salary, maybe it doesn't cripple the team's chances to keep Marcum and Greinke...

[Oldcity]

Where's the $130 million payroll coming from?

[bucksbeat]

Where's the $130 million payroll coming from?

That number seems a little exaggerated.

 

If we could land Fielder at $20 mil per, I would have the payroll at just over $90 right now, including K-Rod. Get K-Rod off of the books and the financial situation is even better, shop Hart to give Gamel his shot and drop the payroll even more. After 2012 Randy Wolf can come off the books. All this while it's completely feasible that the Brewers could probably sustain a payroll between $90-100 mil right now.

 

An extension to Greinke and/or Marcum with Fielder would be possible.

[TheCrew07]

Deferred money is the worst trend in Modern baseball. If don't have the money to spend up front, don't offer the contract.

[dlk9s]

Can we change the title of the thread to "Cards, please do not sign Fielder"

Or just change it to something a little more neutral/positive? The negativity of the title just bugs me. How about "Prince Fielder free agency discussion thread" or something?

[Invader3K]

I agree. Let's be honest, if Prince did re-sign, most of us would be pretty darn optimistic about the team's chances for at least the next couple seasons.

[dlk9s]

If it was something like a 5 year/$80-$90 million contract, I wouldn't be too upset if the Brewers signed Prince. I doubt it's going to happen.

I'd be thrilled if this happened.

[jeffy]

Where's the $130 million payroll coming from?

That number seems a little exaggerated.

 

If we could land Fielder at $20 mil per, I would have the payroll at just over $90 right now..

 

 

With Rodriguez and Gonzalez on the roster, the Brewers have about $85 million committed to 15 players with guaranteed contracts and projected arbitration settlements. They operated last season with a payroll of about $95 million.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/s...s-o73c9s2-135299393.html

 

So, yes, $90 million if they have 10 players at/near the MLB minimum (brewerfan.net salary page has 9, add Gamel and it's 10). So with Prince at $20 million and no other changes it would be $110 million.

[fondybrewfan]

To afford Prince; Melvin would have to trade two of the following: Grienke, Marcum, Hart, Wolf. It is probably as simple as that. We would probably be worse off trading those two guys just so we can afford Fielder unless we would get average to above average MLB talent in return. Grienke is probably the only one that could get that kind of return.

 

TH is overshooting on the Krod salary though; he is assuming something like $13.5 Million; I think it ends up being closer to $10 or $11 Million since the 20% rule doesn't apply to FA arbitration only pre-FA arbitration.

 

Krod would be a curious arbitration case if it came to that; Krod would want to be paid like an elite closer and the Brewers would want to pay him like an elite set up man; quite a difference there. I have always thought that if Melvin could convince Krod to sign a reasonable 2 year deal (Like 2/16) that he Melvin could probably trade him fairly easily to a team that needs a closer. If Krod insists on a 1 year deal at $11 Million + it would just make it that much harder to trade him.

 

None of this really concerns Fielder though as nothing will be enough to resign Fielder without severly damaging other parts of the team.

[Hate those Rodents]

Why do people think they know of what our max budget is? Mark can have a budget of 120M+ easily if he wants. And he may even want.

[RockCoCougars]

Why do people think they know of what our max budget is? Mark can have a budget of 120M+ easily if he wants. And he may even want.

 

As I've said before, it's the small market mentality. If the franchise is not rolling in cash right now they are doing something very wrong. Unless they win a World Series, they will never exceed the popularity level they are at as we speak. Let's not even factor in the massive appreciation in the value of the franchise since Attanasio bought the team. If the Twins have a payroll north of $110 million last season, there is no reason the Brewers can't do it for a few years. I don't want to hear about market size either, the only appreciable difference in revenue that the two teams should have is the media contracts (TV/radio) that allow the Twins to broadcast games in the Dakotas. As far as I can tell both teams are basically broadcast from the same entity- the old MSC studios in the Twin Cities. With the new TV contract in 2013, the Brewers should have commanded nearly as much as the Twins are getting- the ratings have certainly been higher over the past year. As I've said before, the Twin Cities is a bigger metro area and local TV 'market', but outstate Wisconsin has more people and is probably more affluent than outstate Minnesota/Dakotas.

 

This shouldn't be taken as a lack of appreciation for what Attanasio has done in increasing the payroll from the penny pinching ways of the Seligs, but it's not 1995 with the team averaging 18,000 in County Stadium with no regional sports network deal, either. When the Brewers were good in the late 70's early 80's, the market supported one of the highest payrolls in baseball. I know that local TV money has changed that landscape, but there is no reason not to use the Twins as a barometer.

[Patrick425]

Why do people think they know of what our max budget is? Mark can have a budget of 120M+ easily if he wants. And he may even want.

Hmm, I don't know, maybe because Melvin's and Attanasio's words and actions have given the fan's no indication that a payroll near $120M is even a thought. Haven't they basically stated that the payroll budget will not change much from last year?

 

[jeffy]

To afford Prince; Melvin would have to trade two of the following: Grienke, Marcum, Hart, Wolf.

 

Why isn't K-Rod in that group?

[Nottso]

Why do people think they know of what our max budget is? Mark can have a budget of 120M+ easily if he wants. And he may even want.

Hmm, I don't know, maybe because Melvin's and Attanasio's words and actions have given the fan's no indication that a payroll near $120M is even a thought. Haven't they basically stated that the payroll budget will not change much from last year?

If I've learned nothing else over the past few years, I've learned to believe nothing that Doug Melvin says; and I mean this in a good way. It seems like every time we (as a fanbase) think we know what's coming, bam(!) he throws us a curve. Sabathia, Greinke, Marcum... who next? Maybe nobody, maybe everybody. I sure as heck can't guess.

 

[fondybrewfan]

If people really believe the Brewers could afford $120 Million budget than I don't know what to say. Do people think that the Brewers are bringing in $150 Million in revenue and Mark A is just making a monstrous profit? If the Brewers could afford $120 Million for player salaries they wouldn't have had a $95 Million payroll last year in the midst of a world series chase. If the Brewers could afford a $120 Million payroll they wouldn't have pulled their offer to Saito (Or decided against offering) as soon as they found out Krod accepted arby. I just don't think there is any reason to believe that their payroll isn't maxed out at around $95 Million. Mark A has deep pockets but he didn't get to be rich by making dumb business decisions. I am sure he makes a modest profit and that is about it.

 

Maybe Melvin is bluffing and he really could go up to $100 Million; but thinking they could go as high as $120 million is a little far fetched. If you are in the $120 Million range you are almost certainly a large market with a monstrous TV contract.

[fondybrewfan]

To afford Prince; Melvin would have to trade two of the following: Grienke, Marcum, Hart, Wolf.

 

Why isn't K-Rod in that group?

Just oversight; he should be in the group as well

 

 

[TheCrew07]

People think the Payroll won't stretch much farther because the team needed the playoffs to be in the black in 2008. Many posters on this site severly overestimate the break even point for this team. The new TV contract will help some, but it's not like was a 20 million/year revenue spike for the team.

 

The team has done very well expanding it's revenue streams, there is no more "mom and pop" type business culture around the Brewers, but the reality is that the local market will only support a payroll so high. While we don't know the exact number, likely between 90-100 million with the new tv contract, the Brewers have made it clear they are a tight enough line that ticket sales largely determine if the team will be profitable or not. Yes the team can borrow against the value of franchise to go higher, but that's not a sound buisiness strategy year in and year out.

 

Attendance is already about maxed out, it's very tough to sell out every single home game, we shouldn't expect attendance to exceed 3 mil on a yearly basis or push up towards 3.5 mil, nor should we expect the team to magically find enough new revenue streams that they could add significant payroll. Mark A's personal wealth, whatever that numer is, means nothing... he doesn't pay the players out of his own pockets. The business does, and when all is said and done the business will have a break even point as all businesses do. I'm not sure where the concept of the "deep pockets" owner came from, but many people are taking it way too literally, as in the owner spends his own money to play the players, really the concept is about teams that are willing to spend money on players. Brewers as a corporation didn't spend under the Seligs but they spend money under Mark A's group, the difference is how the organization is run, not how relative wealth between the two principle owners.

[logan82]

I'm not sure where the concept of the "deep pockets" owner came from, but many people are taking it way too literally, as in the owner spends his own money to play the players, really the concept is about teams that are willing to spend money on players. Brewers as a corporation didn't spend under the Seligs but they spend money under Mark A's group, the difference is how the organization is run, not how relative wealth between the two principle owners.

 

I would guess the Seligs had something to do with it but also guys like Steinbrenner. That completely ignores the markets though. Payroll dropped when the team was unpopular and rose back up as the Brewers became more popular and stated paying of their loans.

 

I imagine that most owners don't make much money off their own teams other than a few dirtballs. I would venture to guess that in most cases they probably give themselves some sort of title(Senior VP of Fans or some other such nonsense title) and a salary but other than that most of the money goes back into the team. The MLB payroll, I believe, only accounts for about half of a team's expenses.

[brewmann04]

Still have a very Funny eeling we get Prince back for the 2012 season.

[greeg35]

an eeling doesn't sound funny at all...sounds terrifying http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RockCoCougars]

Mark A has deep pockets but he didn't get to be rich by making dumb business decisions. I am sure he makes a modest profit and that is about it.

 

Agreed. But part of the equation is the extreme unrealized gains that the ownership has reaped through the franchise value. This team is pretty close to a championship level with a seemingly short window, not to mention the fact that tens of millions in salary will be coming off the books in the next two years. I don't think it's too far fetched to think the ownership could run at a fairly large deficit for 2012 to make a big time final run.