What to expect in the offseason

[kramnoj]

I believe Gamel is going to be nothing special and will be a major disappointment.

 

Gamel can simultaneously be nothing special and a major disappointment while also providing years of averageish or better quality at a low cost.

 

I have just lost all faith in Gamel and I am not sure he is ever going to be the player that some think he is

 

How do you come to your player evaluations? You said Ian Kennedy was going to have a ceiling as a #3 and would likely be a #4 or #5 pitcher.

[nate82]

I have just lost all faith in Gamel and I am not sure he is ever going to be the player that some think he is

 

How do you come to your player evaluations? You said Ian Kennedy was going to have a ceiling as a #3 and would likely be a #4 or #5 pitcher.

A little bit of Hockey's Future's rating system and Project Prospect. Some of it is based on my own observations of watching the player. To me Gamel is to timid at the plate at least what I have seen of him at major league level but he is the complete opposite of what I see when I have watched him bat in the minors.

I remember stating that Kennedy having a ceiling of a #3 and some said I was to high on him. These are not facts that I am portraying here just my opinions on the players. I don't have a crystal ball and I am by no means the be all end all of what a player is worth. I just do not have confidence in Gamel as to where I believe he will be anything special at all and will be disappointing. The rating I feel more strongly with giving Gamel from the Hockey's Future's rating system would be a D. I just don't see Gamel reaching his full potential which means he will probably be at best a platoon player. I hope I am wrong with Gamel but something just tells me that I should be hoping for a lot less out of Gamel which would be around a replacement level player.

[Hate those Rodents]

I expect the following...

 

1) Gamel starts at 1B

2) Green starts at 3B

3) McGehee backs up 1B and 3B (maybe even 2B in a pinch)

4) Hairston is resigned

5) Yunel Escobar is obtained from Toronto to man SS

6) All starters and bullpen members (save KRod) are retained

[endaround]

The Brewers have nowhere enough to pry Escobar from Toronto.

[Hate those Rodents]

Sure they do. They have CF depth, starting pitching depth, and desired Canadian prospects. For instance, Fiers/Schaefer/Canadian prospects for Escobar.

[brewmann04]

I think you see the Brewers to make an early Take it or leave it Offer to Prince,and then quickly move onto plan B going after Reyes.

[endaround]

Sure they do. They have CF depth, starting pitching depth, and desired Canadian prospects. For instance, Fiers/Schaefer/Canadian prospects for Escobar.

Fiers has almost no value. Schafer is a C prospect. This would be more like Peralta/Gindl/One of the first round pitchers from last year and maybe the Jays would listen. Escobar is one of the best SS in the league.

[Hate those Rodents]

Sure they do. They have CF depth, starting pitching depth, and desired Canadian prospects. For instance, Fiers/Schaefer/Canadian prospects for Escobar.

Fiers has almost no value. Schafer is a C prospect. This would be more like Peralta/Gindl/One of the first round pitchers from last year and maybe the Jays would listen. Escobar is one of the best SS in the league.

 

I laugh at your Fiers comment. And a good handful of teams will prefer Schafer and his CF potential to that of a tiny corner OF (as long as we are in "putdown mode" for brewers prospects).

[endaround]

Fiers is about to turn 27 next season. He's Estrada with no major league success. The guy who was free twice in the past 3 seasons. Now someone might think he can be late inning guy but he isn't a large piece of a major deal. Gindl is 23 next year, Schafer 25.

[danzig6767]

Sure they do. They have CF depth, starting pitching depth, and desired Canadian prospects. For instance, Fiers/Schaefer/Canadian prospects for Escobar.

Fiers has almost no value. Schafer is a C prospect. This would be more like Peralta/Gindl/One of the first round pitchers from last year and maybe the Jays would listen. Escobar is one of the best SS in the league.

 

I laugh at your Fiers comment. And a good handful of teams will prefer Schafer and his CF potential to that of a tiny corner OF (as long as we are in "putdown mode" for brewers prospects).

Toronto isn't trading Escobar after stealing him from Atlanta, much less for guys you listed.

[danzig6767]

Barmes, Carroll, Scutaro all represent upgrades over Betancourt. Scutaro and Carroll in particular because of their OBP. Carroll has a .358 career OBP (but at 37 is he too old for fulltime SS work?)

 

I think Carroll is a guy I could see the Crew going after. Barmes is younger with great D but his OBP really isn't anything special. Ronny Cedeno has a Yuni-esque OBP. No thanks...

 

Rollins & Reyes, I agree, will be too expensive

 

I like Alexei Ramirez alot (awesome defense and a good enough hitter) and would be thrilled if we traded for him

 

Furcal is too injury prone

 

I cannot imagine the Brewers actually paying Betancourt $6 million

Truth has hit my feelings on SS as well. However, I really like going to Barmes over Carroll. Carroll's going to be 38 next year - not the guy you want at SS for 130 or 140 games. And he's not a great fielder, so that will only get worse. I like Barmes' glove a lot, and the 23 HR he hit a few years ago makes him intriguing in the power department. I wouldn't expect a high OBP, but a .700 OPS with good fielding would be welcome.

Baring a trade, Barmes is the number one shortstop that i hope Melvin targets. Carroll is just to old and isn't a good defensive player. Barmes kinda strikes me as Betancout offensively, but with a bit better OBP ability and vastly superior range at short. I'd be more than fine with that. Watching Furcal and Andrus especially play shortstop in the World Series, the range they have compared to Betancourt is such a wide gulf and Barmes would be a welcome site to start improving the Brewers team defense.

 

If Barmes went elsewhere, i'd like Doug to look at Scutaro, but i don't watch AL baseball and thus i don't know how he is defensively. I could look up his defensive metrics, but unlike many here, i'm fairly skeptical of defensive metrics. Not that i think defensive metrics are worthless, just that they should be used in correlation with the eyeball test. As just a hitter though, Scutaro would top my list of wants this offseason at shortstop. If his range is at least just solid, he'd pass Barmes as my number one hope.

[chadomac]

I think you see the Brewers to make an early Take it or leave it Offer to Prince,and then quickly move onto plan B going after Reyes.

It's funny that people actually believe the Brewers have the money to sign either Prince or Reyes this offseason. The money is not there.

[brewmann04]

Yes i am on of those people who think we can sign them but of course we might not because a team overpay them for their services.

[GamelToe]

I think you see the Brewers to make an early Take it or leave it Offer to Prince,and then quickly move onto plan B going after Reyes.

It's funny that people actually believe the Brewers have the money to sign either Prince or Reyes this offseason. The money is not there.

Yup. This is going to be a disappointing off-season for some. Expect bullpen signings then an average SS (like a Barmes). Nothing more than that. They'll go internal with 1B, but probably pick up an aging vet like Derrek Lee in case Gamel/McGehee fall on their faces.

[Ennder]

We most likely do have the money to sign Fielder, it just would leave too many other holes so I can't see a deal making any sense and don't think it will happen. Both sides are most likely correct.

[monty57]

I think you see the Brewers to make an early Take it or leave it Offer to Prince,and then quickly move onto plan B going after Reyes.

It's funny that people actually believe the Brewers have the money to sign either Prince or Reyes this offseason. The money is not there.

Attanasio has never been one to lie to the fan base, and he said they're going to make a push for Fielder. One question is whether this is another Sabathia type situation where they would increase the payroll for Fielder, but not for anyone else. Another question is whether signing Fielder would mean that they have to trade one or more other high price players (Hart and/or a SP). I would think that if they were to sign Fielder, Hart would be traded for a SS and Gamel would be tried out in RF.

 

Personally, I expect them to be outbid for Fielder, but that's just a guess. Then we would see whether or not they would be willing to increase the payroll for Reyes. I'd guess not, and would expect them to make a push for someone they could get for less money, like Barmes or maybe Furcal, as they would probably need to keep Hart's bat in the lineup if they lose Fielder.

[ramssuperbowl99]

Sure they do. They have CF depth, starting pitching depth, and desired Canadian prospects. For instance, Fiers/Schaefer/Canadian prospects for Escobar.

Fiers has almost no value. Schafer is a C prospect. This would be more like Peralta/Gindl/One of the first round pitchers from last year and maybe the Jays would listen. Escobar is one of the best SS in the league.

 

I laugh at your Fiers comment. And a good handful of teams will prefer Schafer and his CF potential to that of a tiny corner OF (as long as we are in "putdown mode" for brewers prospects).

Yeah I bet the Blue Jays would just be ecstatic to get a premium talent like Gindl in RF to take over for that scrub Jose Bautista or a ridiculously toolsy OF like Schafer to finally give the organization a real CF prospect besides Colby Rasmus or Anthony Gose.

 

If Melvin actually proposes a trade like that he's either just going to get laughed at and hung up on, or the organization would be so insulted they'd never speak to him again. This isn't a video game.

[clancyphile]

Attanasio has never been one to lie to the fan base, and he said they're going to make a push for Fielder. One question is whether this is another Sabathia type situation where they would increase the payroll for Fielder, but not for anyone else. Another question is whether signing Fielder would mean that they have to trade one or more other high price players (Hart and/or a SP). I would think that if they were to sign Fielder, Hart would be traded for a SS and Gamel would be tried out in RF.

 

Personally, I expect them to be outbid for Fielder, but that's just a guess. Then we would see whether or not they would be willing to increase the payroll for Reyes. I'd guess not, and would expect them to make a push for someone they could get for less money, like Barmes or maybe Furcal, as they would probably need to keep Hart's bat in the lineup if they lose Fielder.

Maybe... but they could try to defer the salary for Prince - and keep in mind, not only have the Brewers done that with Ryan Braun, it also could be an option for Prince. Prince may also welcome the thought of guaranteed post-retirement income as well.

 

That does give the Crew an edge, especially if Prince really does not want to leave Milwaukee.

[BREWCREW5]

Maybe... but they could try to defer the salary for Prince - and keep in mind, not only have the Brewers done that with Ryan Braun, it also could be an option for Prince. Prince may also welcome the thought of guaranteed post-retirement income as well.

 

That does give the Crew an edge, especially if Prince really does not want to leave Milwaukee.

Fielder is gone. The quicker most of you realize it, the better. When Fielder talks of Milwaukee, he uses a past tense. Reason enough.

[monty57]

Maybe... but they could try to defer the salary for Prince - and keep in mind, not only have the Brewers done that with Ryan Braun, it also could be an option for Prince. Prince may also welcome the thought of guaranteed post-retirement income as well.

 

That does give the Crew an edge, especially if Prince really does not want to leave Milwaukee.

Fielder is gone. The quicker most of you realize it, the better. When Fielder talks of Milwaukee, he uses a past tense. Reason enough.

I resigned myself to that long ago, and I think Gamel will be our 1B in 2012 and beyond.

 

However, Attanasio is now saying that he wants to sign Fielder. Attanasio has not been one to tell the fans something unless he means it. That doesn't mean we will sign Fielder, as we could have a team make a ridiculous offer like the Yankees did to Sabathia, but Attanasio is extremely intelligent when it comes to finances. Contrasting that against our very limited knowledge of the Brewers finances, and I'll at least have to consider the option that the Brewers have a chance of re-signing him.

 

I would assume that if we really could sign Fielder, we would have to trade away one of our bigger contracts. If that's the case, our best options would probably be trading Hart and allowing Gamel/Gindl/Schafer to play RF, and/or trading one of Wolf/Marcum/Greinke and giving Peralta/Fiers a shot at the rotation. I would hope that in one of those trades, we would be able to fill SS.

[logan82]

I would hate to be paying 2 guys a total of $10m a year after they are gone. If there was more hope for massive changes in financial equality in baseball I wouldn't mind as much but as of right now it doesn't look promising.

[clancyphile]

Maybe... but they could try to defer the salary for Prince - and keep in mind, not only have the Brewers done that with Ryan Braun, it also could be an option for Prince. Prince may also welcome the thought of guaranteed post-retirement income as well.

 

That does give the Crew an edge, especially if Prince really does not want to leave Milwaukee.

Fielder is gone. The quicker most of you realize it, the better. When Fielder talks of Milwaukee, he uses a past tense. Reason enough.

I resigned myself to that long ago, and I think Gamel will be our 1B in 2012 and beyond.

 

However, Attanasio is now saying that he wants to sign Fielder. Attanasio has not been one to tell the fans something unless he means it. That doesn't mean we will sign Fielder, as we could have a team make a ridiculous offer like the Yankees did to Sabathia, but Attanasio is extremely intelligent when it comes to finances. Contrasting that against our very limited knowledge of the Brewers finances, and I'll at least have to consider the option that the Brewers have a chance of re-signing him.

 

I would assume that if we really could sign Fielder, we would have to trade away one of our bigger contracts. If that's the case, our best options would probably be trading Hart and allowing Gamel/Gindl/Schafer to play RF, and/or trading one of Wolf/Marcum/Greinke and giving Peralta/Fiers a shot at the rotation. I would hope that in one of those trades, we would be able to fill SS.

Wolf and Greinke are likely gone after 2012... and if the Brewers are able to compete and make playoff runs... the next TV contract will be worth more - bringing in more money than would be expected otherwise. In that case... a short-term investment in another all-in run for 2012 could pay bigger dividends down the road.

 

That said, is keeping Prince out of the question? No. He doesn't seem to want to leave, which is a factor. Prince may like the idea of what would amount to a post-career annuity via deferring some of the salary. Yeah, I think the Brewers have a good chance of keeping him. This team made a deep playoff run, and if the core stays together in 2012 against a Cardinal team that could lose Pujols and the aging Phillies, there's a good chance of a World Series with the guys he came up with - and that's something an outrageous free-agent contract from the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, or some other team can't buy...

[NievesNoNO]

Sure they do. They have CF depth, starting pitching depth, and desired Canadian prospects. For instance, Fiers/Schaefer/Canadian prospects for Escobar.

I initially thought maybe they could pry Escobar away form the Jays with Hechaverria likely close, but they just gave him an extension and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they'd look into moving Escobar to 2nd or 3rd to keep them together.

 

That said, if you offer enough I doubt he's untouchable. I think you'd likely have to start with Peralta. Peralta, Axford, Farris, Schaefer??

 

On a side note, I really like the direction the Jays are going. I think they're a little light on pitching yet, but they're really close with the bats to making a strong push in that division. Fielder??

[PilprinBuddha]

If we lose Grienke, I will be more than ticked and feel like Melvin will have gutted our farm system for two years of pitching and likely one run with Prince. Small market teams can't do that. I really believe Grienke needs to be signed and Marcum dealt. Marcum really doesn't fit our power arm mantra....good pitcher, but deal him for a prospect and everyday player at 1b or ss.

[brewmann04]

Grienke is the keeper for sure and the rotation needs him to continue to make the Brewers a playoff team. It should be very interesting to see what the Brewers have planned for the Offseason . let the rumors fly