What to expect in the offseason

[paul253]

He's just being complimentary. He's not gonna come out and say that

Betancourt is awful and he'll definitely replace him. Melvin will sign a

cheaper, better alternative

 

If you read the link, this was supposedly his response when asked about the left side of the infield. The used the entire comment to compliment Yuni. He didn't mention McGehee or Green or Hairston. And even I can think of a way to say they underperformed without insulting or blaming anyone. I read this more as him going out of his way to compliment Yuni than just be PC about it.

[The Truth]

So while on this board a statement like Melvin's is ripe for ridicule in the eyes of many, to those of us with less of a stats-heavy bias, it makes some decent sense and is hardly heretical to our views of common sense.

Well now thats all well & good, however after having zero statistical evidence in front of me regarding the Brewers post-season defense and instead relying completely on my own eyes as an amateur observer, it still seems obvious that Melvin underestimated the importance of defense in 2011, which makes his comments completely absurd

[Ennder]

Betancourt was better than I expected, I hope we don't re-sign him. But if he can put up a year like he did last year maybe some team will start him, I figured he'd end up a backup guy or maybe move to 2B for someone next year.

[logan82]

It wasn't just the stats. Yuni didn't look good either. It wasn't just the stats.

[reillymcshane]

Well, Melvin said a lot of good things at his press conference. But also, it's more about what he didn't say:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/132172268.html

 

He praised his team - even the bad players. It goes with how he and RRR run things. So yes, he's being positive about Yuni and Casey. I expected that.

 

But he never commits to Yuni or Casey (or pretty much anyone).

 

He didn't poo poo Hart going to 1B - just said he hasn't wanted that in the past.

 

He made some nice comments about Gamel and Green. His comments about Gamel were pretty positive. Never commits to him, but says the team has to seriously consider him for next season.

 

Leaves the door open for Saito and Hawkins. Talks about how valuable Hairston ways and how the team needs players like him.

 

I think all good. NOthing shocking. I didn't expect him to trash anyone. And he didn't. If anything, he could have said something about 'getting better defensively' - but he didn't. I was most happy to hear him be positive about Gamel and Green. Again, nothing too deep, but acknowledges they have to be seriously considered for 2012.

[MNBrew]

Melvin's remarks remind me of why I'm always so glad my favorite team is the Brewers and not the NY/BOS/CHI teams -- both for the teams and the media coverage. I think most folks will realize Melvin's job is to see the picture, point out the good things about the 96-win team & its year, and answer the questions fairly without tipping his hand. All in all, it represents him & the organization with a good bit of class.

 

The NY/BOS/CHI media are so used to being ruthless in terms of trashing players, leading questions, & reading into responses, none of which truly do the team, the players, or the fans justice. Yes, that approach does yield some vindicating or cathartic remarks. But that's short-term, emotion-laden stuff and not the grounds for good organizational processes.

 

For example, if Melvin sat there and trashed Casey McGehee up one side and down the other -- which McGehee's performance much of the year could've substantiated -- how in the world would Melvin expect to get any kind of quality return for a guy who's a pretty solid player should he decide to try to trade him this winter? He'd be shooting himself & the team's best interests in the foot.

[MNBrew]

So while on this board a statement like Melvin's is ripe for ridicule in the eyes of many, to those of us with less of a stats-heavy bias, it makes some decent sense and is hardly heretical to our views of common sense.

Well now thats all well & good, however after having zero statistical evidence in front of me regarding the Brewers post-season defense and instead relying completely on my own eyes as an amateur observer, it still seems obvious that Melvin underestimated the importance of defense in 2011, which makes his comments completely absurd

Yuni made a whole bunch of poor plays and also many good ones. Personally, I'm not suggesting he's a sound or solid defensive player.

 

Melvin did make a rather telling remark re: the value of offense vs. defense and the fact that there's usually a balance between the two that must be struck, although where that balance lies can be a matter of choice for an organization's decision makers.

 

For the folks who place an extremely high value on defense (certainly a strong trend in recent years on this board and in certain facets of the baseball-following public), it would seem Melvin underestimated the importance of defense. That perspective, however, and remarks like calling his comments absurd, is simply a biased way of saying that Melvin should've valued/favored defense to the same extent as the folks here who value it very highly.

[markedman5]

I think Melvin just continued to defend himself by praising Yuni. He took tons of heat for choosing to fill the SS hole with Yuni and he's not going to say "I should have gotten somebody better".

[nate82]

I think Melvin just continued to defend himself by praising Yuni. He took tons of heat for choosing to fill the SS hole with Yuni and he's not going to say "I should have gotten somebody better".

Not like there was someone better available to Melvin to get. Furcal really wasn't an upgrade over Betancourt even though I thought he would be it turned out he wasn't especially offensively. Barmes was not available to any team that was in the NL Central so that ruled him out. Who else would have Melvin been able to get instead of Yuni? Counsell would have been worse than Yuni both offensively and defensively he is old and probably would have had less range than Yuni if he had to play more than 1 game a week. I just don't see where an upgrade could have came from as the options available to Melvin to upgrade that spot was very thin and many of the options were either worse or just as bad as Yuni.

[MNBrew]

Another way of making Nate's point:

 

Where Melvin could make upgrade moves, he did, including many "biggies" in terms of talent acquired (Marcum, Greinke, Saito, Morgan, K-Rod). And he didn't go about bashing the players on hand before he did it. He just moved proactively & decisively toward the upgrade.

 

Therefore, I have to believe that if there'd been a realistic & affordable all-around upgrade over Betancourt, Melvin certainly would've made the move unless the price was beyond anything remotely reasonable. The lack of any such moves proves that no sufficient upgrades were available, or at least not at any price worth paying.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Another way of making Nate's point:

 

Where Melvin could make upgrade moves, he did, including many "biggies" in terms of talent acquired (Marcum, Greinke, Saito, Morgan, K-Rod). And he didn't go about bashing the players on hand before he did it. He just moved proactively & decisively toward the upgrade.

 

Therefore, I have to believe that if there'd been a realistic & affordable all-around upgrade over Betancourt, Melvin certainly would've made the move unless the price was beyond anything remotely reasonable. The lack of any such moves proves that no sufficient upgrades were available, or at least not at any price worth paying.

Yeah, I agree with this. Melvin just didn't see an upgrade available or that he could afford in the offseason or at the deadline. If he finds one this offseason, he'll jump on it. I think there will definitely be affordable upgrades out there, namely Clint Barmes.

[BrewCrewForever]

Barmes is by far my #1 choice to be the starting SS in 2012. Really hope Doug and co. make a hard push for him.

[tristarscoop]

People have to remember, too, that Melvin has said a lot of things in the past that turn out not to be the case. What he says publicly seems to have little to do with what he's actually planning or thinking. He said he had no interest in Nyjer Morgan and he was a Brewer a week later.

 

I just don't take anything he says to the media at face value anymore.

[nate82]

People have to remember, too, that Melvin has said a lot of things in the past that turn out not to be the case. What he says publicly seems to have little to do with what he's actually planning or thinking. He said he had no interest in Nyjer Morgan and he was a Brewer a week later.

 

I just don't take anything he says to the media at face value anymore.

It is the same for all GM's. Don't take a single word they say to be 100% truth at most you are getting about 20% of the truth when a GM is answering specific questions that involve players and players on other teams. There maybe some rules that do not allow the GM's to talk specifically about other players that are not on your roster. It may just be a game like poker where Melvin is just not going to show his hand to the other GM's out there on what he is planning.

The obvious things that you can guess on are that Melvin is going to get a SS in free agency or through a trade as there really isn't an option in house for Melvin to use. The bullpen is going to be another issue I wouldn't be surprised if players who were injured or had a down year will be looked at along with Saito and Hawkins. The bench also needs to be taken care of I believe Scutaro is someone who like Counsell doesn't do anything great but can play 3 infield positions from average to above average and is someone who Melvin will look at to replace Counsell. After that I think Melvin looks at who is available in a trade and what he can get to improve the team.

I believe Narveson is more likely to be traded than Marcum with Fiers taking the #5 spot from him. I also believe there is a very slim chance that Hart is traded probably around a 20% chance that he is traded. The Red Sox would be interested in Hart but nearly all of their good talented players are at A ball and I don't believe Iglesias would be available. The Braves probably still have some interest in Hart who would actually be a better OF in LF versus RF. I am not sure who the Braves would give up probably a pitching prospect as they have a lot of good young pitching that they can trade away. A kind of a blockbuster like trade that I was thinking about would be Hart to the Dodgers for Ethier. I am not sure if that is a good trade or a bad trade for the Brewers but I do like Ethier better than Hart. I also expect Melvin to look at some of the free agent OF's that will be available especially DeJesus and Fukudome both could be put in the #2 spot as they both have good OBP skills.

[TracyThom]

I hope they don't resign Yuni mostly so I don't have to read Logan's posts trashing him nearly every single day. It made me stay away from the Major League forums for awhile this season.

[Ennder]

I see a whole lot of reading what you want into a bunch of really non specific comments here. It is like a Rorschach test, you are going to judge these comments based on your own opinions because most of it was so generic. These seems to be the case every time someone complains about what one of these guys says to the public, most of the time I feel like I'm reading a completely different interview than half the forum.

[trwi7]

TracyThom wrote:

---

I hope they don't resign Yuni mostly so I don't have to read Logan's posts trashing him nearly every single day. It made me stay away from the Major League forums for awhile this season.

If you don't like it you can hit that fancy interact button and then ignore user's posts instead of complaining about other posters.

[TracyThom]

TracyThom wrote:

---

I hope they don't resign Yuni mostly so I don't have to read Logan's posts trashing him nearly every single day. It made me stay away from the Major League forums for awhile this season.

If you don't like it you can hit that fancy interact button and then ignore user's posts instead of complaining about other posters.

 

Seriously, there is an ignore button? I've been a member here for 5+ years and I had no idea.

[Ennder]

I also avoided the forum for half of the season because of the extreme negativity that prevailed every time the team or a specific player struggled for a little bit. When the forums are so negative they just aren't fun to read, I'm not talking about a specific poster though, just in general. If I reread these forums without any context I'd have thought the Brewers lost 100 games.

[trwi7]

TracyThom wrote:

---

Seriously, there is an ignore button? I've been a member here for 5+ years and I had no idea.

http://oi56.tinypic.com/wu579l.jpg

 

 

[logan82]

I hope they don't resign Yuni mostly so I don't have to read Logan's posts trashing him nearly every single day. It made me stay away from the Major League forums for awhile this season.

Sorry you feel that way. Most of my posts have just stated that he isn't average like some people like to pretend he is. In fact he is well below average. I didn't trash him every single day but you are entitled to your hyperbole.

 

 

Hairston was an option at SS after he was picked up. I put that on the manager though. I believe a left side of Hairston Green would have been better than Hairston and Yuni.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The only place where I though the negativity was over the top was the IGT's. POsts like "Game over" when it was 3-0 in the third inning got kinda old.

[LouisEly]

"And that leads to this. Melvin's comments on Yuni B......

 

"I thought Yuni Betancourt was a better player than what his critics said. I thought he did a very good job. If you look at the on-base percentage, that's the thing that always seems to hurt him. I thought he made a lot of good plays, a lot of outstanding plays. I like the way he starts a double play. He's as good as I've seen doing that. He made some outstanding plays. I'm very surprised at the critics of him, personally. I know a lot of it is the analytical studies defensively. I'm not a total believer in that. Sure, he made some errors but he also made some outstanding plays."

 

Yuni B. will be a Brewer next year."

 

This same person also said he was "not motivated" to trade Lyle Overbay. Means nothing in terms of what his plans are for next season.

[LouisEly]

In fact, if you read two paragraphs further in that article he says this:

 

"What are priorities this winter: "The fifth and sixth spot in the lineup hurt us offensively. On a 96-win team, if I could pay all these guys the same money, I'd have them all back next year. But that's not the way it works. I'd be glad to go to war again with this team. There's not anybody that I'm backing up a truck and getting rid of on this team. There was a lot of heart and soul on this team. These guys all came together; they didn't know each other coming into spring training. We had a new coaching staff, new manager, a lot of new players. They all came in here with the same goal. Every team has its flaws. But we finished seventh in pitching and fifth in hitting. We were 21st in defense. Defensively, is the one area that you have to get better at. And if you get better defensively, you're probably not going to be as good offensively. If you get a quality defender that's a good offensive player, he's probably an all-star. That's the balance we have to look at: How much offense do you sacrifice to get better defensively?"

 

So if he knows he finished 21st in defense - whatever metrics he is using to define that - he is well aware of defense and how he feels they ranked. If you also read three paragraphs above that he said this:

 

"Making off-season moves: "We'll put plans in place. You've got to have a Plan A, B and C. We hope to have the same kind of success (as last winter). Just because you maybe want to improve in an area doesn't mean there's somebody available there. We're creating a strategy and a game plan. I'm not one to go chase somebody that's not available. (With players returning), I feel good about the club and the organization."

[Bombers]

This board will explode if they pickup Yuni's option. But I have said it before and others have too, there is not a 10 page list of available short stops. If we miss out on the top available FA SS and can't make a trade happen ... Yuni will be back.