Defense

[mkm13]

Well if it wasn't obvious before we are for the most part below average to terrible defensively at almost every position (except center field when Ron actually plays our 2 center fielders)...especially now with Weeks not 100%. I don't know what happened to Hart..but he is not even close to as fast as he used to be.

I feel bad for our pitchers...both game 3 and 5 of this series our pitchers numbers would have looked significantly better with just an average defense.

[DHonks]

Greinke threw a great game tonight. 3 official errors and at least three unofficial ones

[Paul77]

So upset by the defense.... I've changed my avatar in hopes of gaining some king of reverse karma.

[nate82]

Hart has never been a good OF.

[logan82]

A good 1B would have saved a couple of the errors. Yes we are below average defensively at every position other than CF and maybe C and 2B. You know you are in trouble when your best infield defender is Weeks. Hart has been a bad defender for a couple years. The most disappointing of the bunch is Braun. He has obvious athletic gifts that would seem to lend themselves to being a good defender. Hairston seems pretty good so that's nice.

[DHonks]

Logan, Braun doesn't make great plays but he gets to nearly everything he should and has a good arm

[nate82]

Logan, Braun doesn't make great plays but he gets to nearly everything he should and has a good arm

He should be playing 1B and not the OF. The Brewers have 2 OF who should not be playing in the OF because of a varied of reasons. I really wish the Brewers think about moving Braun to 1B if/when Prince leaves.

[Raw Biz]

Logan, Braun doesn't make great plays but he gets to nearly everything he should and has a good arm

He should be playing 1B and not the OF. The Brewers have 2 OF who should not be playing in the OF because of a varied of reasons. I really wish the Brewers think about moving Braun to 1B if/when Prince leaves.

But teams can usually get by with a below-average defensive LF. And I would consider Braun closer to average than below-average. I mean he's no Carlos Lee. What they should do is try to unload Hart for a SS.

[Oxy]

I think this thread needs to be moved to the Minor League forum. There is no Major League D being played in Milwaukee right now.

[yfinn6]

That was the worst defensive game I have ever seen by a MLB team.

[And That]

I didn't watch most of the game, so I can't comment on Braun this game, but he's at least an average defender in left. I think people really rag on him still for his time at third. He takes average routes to fly balls now, and he has an above average arm.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The Brewers have been a poor defensive team for some time...it was just a matter of time before a night like this happened. What's crazy is how many good plays they had too...Yuni, JHJ & Gomez all made super plays...then every horrendous error and the misplays that weren't errors resulted in runs. This is all part of a player's value...a part that has been lacking in this team. Hopefully they can mash the next couple games and overcome it.

[The Truth]

Well if it wasn't obvious before we are for the most part below average to terrible defensively at almost every position (except center field when Ron actually plays our 2 center fielders)..

I would say that Morgan is a below average fielding CF, too. Hairston is usually pretty sure handed. I'd say he's an average fielding 3B. Lucroy is maybe average, maybe not...

[RockCoCougars]

The Brewers could have made 20 errors tonight and it wouldn't have made a difference. The game was lost when Braun inexplicably missed that hanging meatball by Dotel. The bottom line is that St. Louis was able to put balls in play while Brewer hitters were missing pitches by a foot. The two defensive plays that made me the angriest weren't even called errors. The 'just miss' by Hart (what is the deal with him doing this in the playoffs anyway - remember the one against Philly in '08) and the drop by Weeks. Both those plays should have been made. I'm a fan of Rickie, but he's really starting to infuriate me with his play, and I'm getting tired of hearing the 'ankle' excuse.

[danzig6767]

A good 1B would have saved a couple of the errors. Yes we are below average defensively at every position other than CF and maybe C and 2B. You know you are in trouble when your best infield defender is Weeks. Hart has been a bad defender for a couple years. The most disappointing of the bunch is Braun. He has obvious athletic gifts that would seem to lend themselves to being a good defender. Hairston seems pretty good so that's nice.

What? The first error went through the legs of Hairston. That Weeks throw was atrocious and no fault to Prince. Betancourt gagged a ball weakly hit to him. Hart yet again misjudged a ball hit over his head, even though RR has Hart playing deep. Weeks dropped that flare which hit right on his glove that also lead to a run.

 

We've been hurt badly multiple times in the series on hit balls that were hits, but either could have been outs or should have been outs, besides the errors tonight.

 

Game 2-- In that 3rd inning, the pitcher Jackson gets on after Morgan gets a bad jump on a blooper that falls in. Plus, why was Nyjer playing so deep for Jackson? After a should be DP grounder to third by Jay gets through because of a hit and run, Pujols hits a rocket to center. Certainly not an easy play, but Morgan struggled yet again tracking a ball hit over his head, looking ugly in the process, and it became a 2-run double. Making a fairly tough play in key spots is often huge in the playoffs. Let's not forget either that earlier in the at bat Hart failed to catch that foul ball flare by Pujols where Hart looked like he was running in mud. Man his speed has fallen off a cliff.

 

Game 3-- Kotsay who shouldn't have been in CF fails to catch a sinking liner/bloop by Jay that both Morgan/Gomez get to. Pujols comes up next and hits a double in the gap that at first i thought neither of Morgan/Gomez get to. Seeing that hit multiple times on highlights, the ball hung up longer than i initially thought and landed only about 5 feet from Kotsay. I'm near 100 percent certain that Gomez tracks that ball down. Morgan it's about 50/50. If he gets a good jump off the bat, Morgan catches it given he's so much faster. Finally, Hart fails to catch that fly which hits his glove. Not an easy play, but needed to be made. Instead of the score being either 0-0 or 1-0 after the first inning, we were down 4-0 in a game we lost 4-3.

 

Game 5-- Hart fails yet again to make kinda a tough catch where he again tracks it wrong. Two run error by Hairston. Weeks drops a flare not called an error, but it hit his glove and needed to be caught. Leads to another run.

 

This stuff has three times put the team down in a sizable hole, not just a single run and all three were a loss. One bummer is that Holliday/Berkman are below average defensively, but probably some by pure fluke, no balls which would be tougher plays have been hit in their direction while Hart keeps having important balls hit by him where the team badly needs him to make a play and instead he just keeps failing to do so on any of them.

[danzig6767]

I didn't watch most of the game, so I can't comment on Braun this game, but he's at least an average defender in left. I think people really rag on him still for his time at third. He takes average routes to fly balls now, and he has an above average arm.

I'll admit that i don't know what the defensive metrics say, partially because IMO defensive metrics are something to lacking in the kind of reliability that many offensive stats have. To just my eyes when watching Braun out there, he does sometimes take poor angles or misjudge balls, but i think there has been noticeable improvement in that aspect. Ryan does have nice speed though which allows him to run down balls that lesser that lesser athletes in LF can't, and his strong arm has become more accurate.

 

I'd compare Braun a bit to Hart in the outfield early in his career when Hart could really run, but now his speed has totally nosedived. It's been kinda shocking to me at times this year when watching Hart try to run down balls and seeing him running like he's at the end of a 100 yard sprint the whole time.

[RockCoCougars]

We've been hurt badly multiple times in the series on hit balls that were hits, but either could have been outs or should have been outs, besides the errors tonight.

 

You are correct. The funny thing is that during the 'hot stretch', I'd bet that 90 some percent of those balls were outs. Morgan was catching everything hit near center. He started misplaying a few balls toward the end of the season, and I was surprised. Hart was making catches by the wall look routine as well. If you go to the games and watch, Hart usually plays very deep. He shouldn't have had to go more than 15 or 20 feet or so to catch that ball. This is his third costly near miss by a fence this series- it's almost like he's scared to run into the wall or something. Is it possible to go into a 'defensive slump'?

 

I think Hairston, Yuni and Fielder have actually been pretty solid on defense during the playoffs considering all the chances they've been getting. One of the problems here is that the Cardinals were putting nearly everything in play with only 2 strikeouts in a Greinke start. One of the things that kind of neutralized the poor defense this season was the fact that Brewer pitching was racking up K's. Hopefully they got all the errors out of their system's tonight, because as I said, with the dead bats, it didn't really matter.

[igor67]

It was all part of the retain Fielder strategy, go to game 7 to maximize playoff revenue. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[logan82]

That Weeks throw was atrocious and no fault to Prince.

 

It wasn't Prince's fault but a good 1B would have saved an error. It bounced between Fielder's legs.

[Funketown]

While I'm not going to defend the Brewers for their play last night, I do think we often overestimate what constitutes "average" defense these days. With Gomez in center I don't think this team is horrible defensively, but that's probably more of a testament to how good Gomez is than anything.

 

Hairston is a solid player who saved two runs with a brilliant play and then gave them up with a boneheaded play. If he had let the first ball go by and played the second cleanly I don't think we'd even be thinking about it. Weeks and Yuni were painful last night. Gomez made a beautiful play in CF. On the level, I think it was more the timing of the miscues than anything. Any way you slice it, it was pretty tough to watch.

[SconnieKid]

Yuni actually made a few nice plays before his terrible error.

 

And feel free to pile on Braun too. The ball went through Hairston's legs but Braun could have run the ball in to get Yadi out. Instead he threw the ball 10 feet up the line. I really felt like there were at least 6 errors out there last night and that doesn't include the fly ball Hart didn't get to.

 

Throw in the 1/15 with RISP and 2 outs and you have to wonder if these guys are just gagging. It hurt to watch.

[jason21nl]

Brauns throw meant nothing since Molina was going to be awarded home regardless because of runner interference

[SconnieKid]

I was in a restaurant at the time. They had 4 PJs but I couldn't hear at all. Who did they call interference on? JHJ? Lovely way to compound a terrible play.

[Daubs]

I was in a restaurant at the time. They had 4 PJs but I couldn't hear at all. Who did they call interference on? JHJ? Lovely way to compound a terrible play.

Yup - after the ball went through his legs he turned around and started back toward the OF grass, running into Molina.

[Invader3K]

It was amazing how three of our infielders managed to execute Bill Buckner-esque plays, and pretty much all in key moments..