Tony Gwynn recalled (Hall alternatives)

[Thurston Fluff]

My goal is more modest - a simple cessation of posts about Gwynn's limitations.

 

When your limitation is as large as having zero power is a fairly significant shortcoming. I don't see how any discussion of him can be done without pointing out the fairly obvious problems. For very time someone says he hits for average and gets on base it needs to be pointed out that he would have to be significantly better in those areas to compensate for the fairly large problem of not having so much as gap power.

 

regardless of what Gwynn does, he's going to take heat on a daily basis on this board. No other player (not even Turnbow!) gets this treatment. This much negative energy directed towards any player in a Milwaukee Brewer uniform, on a Brewer "fan" website, is both sad and embarrassing.

 

 

I guess you don't remember the Wes Helms, Obermueller, Mench, Hendrickson, Moeller days. Wes Helms did more in a Brewer uniform than Gwynn did. It's what fans do. They look at players numbers and decide if they like them or not. Based on the skill set Gwynn has I just don't think his positives outweigh his shortcomings. He may hit for average but not mid 300's level like his dad. He may get on base but not at a 380-400 clip like other slappys. He may steal bases but not at an exceptionally high rate. Those all should be eye popping if he can't hit the ball hard enough to get to the wall without four hops. I tend to be one that usually agrees with management moves. I think like you do. They know more than I do. This one I simply can't see the benefit of Gwynn over other options.

[valpocrewsader]

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has Gwynn ever been tried at other positions? Mainly, could he play second base?

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The idea of taking one of the best defensive outfielders the Brewers have ever had and moving him to the infield is tough to imagine. Then again, we recently took a career infielder and moved him to centerfield to create one of the worst defenisve outfielders the Brewers have ever had, so maybe this organization is game for all kinds of crazy things!

 

 

EDIT: Added quote.

[rluzinski]

There's a huge difference between moving a middle infielder to CF than the other way around. Middle infielders generally have the defensive skill to play the outfield. The opposite usually isn't true.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

It's official now, Gwynn called up.

 

www.jsonline.com/watch/?w...7&id=26013

[Oldcity]

This is pretty disappointing. I sure hope Gross and Hart get their shot in center before Gwynn, or that a trade is made.

[UeckerAddict]

Well, if Gwynn is up then all the pro-TGJs and anti-TGJs can just watch and see how he does. Nothing said will matter now; only how well he produces from here on out.

 

My concern is with protection behind Prince. Bill was ample protection, but now that has been extinguished. I love Corey batting leadoff, but the five slot is huge. We might have to move Corey there, though I don't want to (and from a personal achievement standpoint, batting leadoff would allow Corey more ABs while his hitting streak is still active). If I were a pitcher looking at Johnny, Geoff, or Mench in the on deck circle, why would I even think of giving Prince anything near his wheelhouse?

[Never Outhustled]

If they are so addicted to having Gwynn on the team, whatever. But it doesn't mean he has to start. Platoon Gross and Mench in RF, Hart in CF, and Jenkins gets fulltime duty, as we're entering the time of year he gets real hot. Grench could be an interesting RF.

[UeckerAddict]

I'm still concerned about who bats behind Prince, whether they start Gwynn or not.

 

Would it be that weird to bat Prince #3 and Braun #4 (not that far removed from an Ortiz-Manny sort of thing).

 

EDIT: I moved this question to the Braun thread because I think it would be better talked about there.

[SoCalBrewfan]

one of the worst defenisve outfielders the Brewers have ever had

 

This team has played the likes of Matt Stairs, Ben Grieve, Kevin Reimer, Dave Nilsson in the outfield...now they have Kevin Mench.

 

And you must have forgotten Alex Sanchez!

[jhart05]

Well Gwynn is back. I hope for the team's sake he plays absolutely out of his mind. I hope he sees this as his real chance and makes the best of it. Good luck Tony!!

 

About the lineup. I hope either Gwynn or Weeks or someone, can step forward and take over the leadoff position. If they could at least keep a .355 OBP, I think that would be good enough. I know that's not great, but I think it would be serviceable.

 

Not that I don't like Hart there, I do. But I'd rather see a 3-4-5 combo of Hart-Fielder-Braun, over Braun-Fielder-Estrada. (I like Hart over Braun batting before Prince because of his speed.)

[UeckerAddict]

one of the worst defenisve outfielders the Brewers have ever had

 

And El Caballo. Yes, he made a huge play against St. Louis (Cincy?) and may not have had a ghastly amount of errors. But man, all those bloop hits he never got to.

[ryanbraun75]

well i think that this is TGJ's real chance to prove himself over these next few weeks. I believe that if he plays well we could see him starting for us next season in the outfield and maybe in the playoffs this year, but if he struggles i can see him being trade bait around the trade deadline.

 

but this proves the depth of our Brewers. Even though billy went down we have so much depth that we could still win and play very well without him.

[trwi7]

I'm just hoping he can get 20% of all balls he hits in play out of the infield.

[Klements Bratwurst]

I'm still hoping for a swap of Gwynn Jr./Mid-Level Pitching Prospect for Kenny Lofton to take place.

 

Probably not going to happen though http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[bklynbrewcrew]

I hope Gwynn does well so we can trade him but I dont see any way that happens. The guy has absolutely no power whatsoever and that will never change. With Estrada or Jenks hitting behind Prince the lineup is in huge trouble. If Hall is out a month or longer and we dont trade for a guy like Dye I think the playoffs are a long shot.

[Kpanz20]

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well i think that this is TGJ's real chance to prove himself over these next few weeks. I believe that if he plays well we could see him starting for us next season in the outfield and maybe in the playoffs this year, but if he struggles i can see him being trade bait around the trade deadline.

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I don't think Melvin will make a trade based on what TGJ does in the coming weeks. I would hope they evaluate talent in a much better way then "well lets see how he does in the next couple series, and if he sucks lets see if someone will deal for him". Theres no way that just the next few weeks actually determines his long term future with the club.

[mpepy05]

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing to have a guy who has the ability to bunt for a base hit batting behind hart. Move hardy to three and move braun to five or vice-versa.

[unsanitary999]

With Gwynn instead of Hall, what's wrong with this lineup?

 

Hart

Gwynn

Braun

Fielder

Hardy

Jenkins/Mench

Estrada

Weeks

Pitcher

 

That gives Prince some protection and we still have a *decent* amount of power in the lineup...

[backup catchers]

I believe that if he plays well we could see him starting for us next season in the outfield and maybe in the playoffs this year, but if he struggles i can see him being trade bait around the trade deadline.

 

If he plays well I could see him being trade bait but certainly not if he struggles. Melvin isn't going to trade someone who is cheap, may have some value to the team in the future and won't bring us anything in return now. Which is all he'd get us if he was traded when his value was low. Teams may trade for unproven players if they have a high ceiling with some power or great minor league numbers. Gwynn has none of those. If he doesn't play well he'll most likely go back to AAA and eventually be a bench player on the team.

[jazzytrav]

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With Estrada or Jenks hitting behind Prince the lineup is in huge trouble. If Hall is out a month or longer and we dont trade for a guy like Dye I think the playoffs are a long shot.

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How are the playoffs a long shot? Yes, Billy has been coming around lately, but keep in mind he really wasn't doing anything for the first two months...other than learning how to play CF. Either way, all of that was going on and we're still in first place.

 

I find it hard to believe our lineup is in huge trouble just because Hall is out. We went on an early season tear WITHOUT Braun's absolutely disgusting .995 OPS, so I think this lineup can hold on for a month or two.

 

Keep Dye, I wouldn't want him.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think it's time for Rickie to step up. Come on buddy, we need you badly now! If/Once he starts to see the ball well again, the 5-slot would/will no longer be a concern. This is admittedly a big 'if', but I have faith in Rickie.

 

With a Rickie resurgence:

 

Hart

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Weeks

Jenks/Mench

Estrada

Gwynn

 

 

Without one:

 

Hart

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Estrada

Jenks/Mench

Weeks

Gwynn

 

 

Unless TGJ can sustain a high OBP, we can't afford to bat him 2, IMO. I obviously want to see him play well - the more lineup options the better.

[Bucky Rules]

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With Estrada or Jenks hitting behind Prince the lineup is in huge trouble. If Hall is out a month or longer and we dont trade for a guy like Dye I think the playoffs are a long shot.

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Estrada spent a lot of time hitting in the 5-hole until recently. Somehow we managed to amass the 2nd best record in the National League while Billy has been pretty pedestrian at the plate thus far.

 

The Brewers lineup with or without Hall will be better than the opponents lineup for the vast majority of the teams that they're going to play. We're comfortably above average at 1st, SS, 3rd, LF, and RF. We're probably about average at C and 2nd. I just don't see a reason to believe that we'll all of a sudden stop scoring runs just because Billy's going to be out for a bit.

 

I figure it's more of a longshot that the Brewers DON'T make the playoffs than the other way around.

[paul253]

The guy has absolutely no power whatsoever and that will never change

 

who cares? Fielder is on pace to hit 50 hrs, Hardy on pace for 30+, Braun can probably top 20 after being in the minors for a good portion of the season. How many home runs do you need? Gwynn can get on base, and when someone is on base, those home runs mean more. I am just tired of the "he's no good because he doesnt have any power" argument....its weak.

 

That being said, I dont know where Gwynn can fit in the lineup. Its a shame weeks is playing so terribly, because Gwynn would be a good 8 hitter. He's willing to take the walks, unlike Weeks, apparently, who swings at everything thats not over his head. I think Gwynn would be a good 2 hitter as well, but i dont want to move Hardy down to 3 or 5 and have him change his swing all of a sudden trying to hit more homeruns.

[1992casey]

unsanitary and TooLive,

 

Please keep full lineup posts in the linuep thread. Thanks! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[rluzinski]

Gwynn can get on base, and when someone is on base, those home runs mean more. I am just tired of the "he's no good because he doesnt have any power" argument....its weak.

 

There is no power "quota" for a team. The object of an offense is to score as many runs as possible.

 

If people were confident that Gwynn could generate a .370+ OBP, I don't think they'd mind a .350 SLG. It remains to be seen whether he can get on base enough in the bigs to to justify his lack of power, though. If you are going to have a .330 OBP, you better have a little power or you are hurting your offense.