Tony Gwynn recalled (Hall alternatives)

[rluzinski]

Provided that Gross and Hart can play adequate defense in CF, it shouldn't be too hard for Melvin to find a reasonable RH Right fielder somewhere. Depending on how long Hall will be out, Melvin may even trade some actual talent to get a guy with a higher ceiling.

 

The Brewers still have been pretty lucky with injuries so far. I think they have the depth to weather this one.

[JohnBriggs12]

I kind of like the Jermaine Dye suggestion. He's had a really bad year so far but he's got a track record that says he'll get it going at some point.

 

I don't think he'd cost much in terms of players to get him either so if he doesn't get it going, they could just deal him again when Hall comes back.

 

The one thing about bringing up Gwynn and playing him everyday is that it almost dictates moving Hart to 5th in the order and putting Gwynn up top.

[hauser42]

If Hall is out for a while the team needs to make a trade for an OFer to replace him. Gywnn jr is not going to produce enought bunt base hits to overcome the loss of Hall's bat.

[Fatter than Joey]

Bash Gwynn's power all you want but if we need anything right now, it's somebody who does the little things. Gross has been pretty much horrible most of the time he plays and doesn't play good defense.

 

Gwynn -- has been putrid in Nashville since his demotion. He has 0 extra base hits since he was demoted -- and only has one extra base hit in Nashville all year. Gwynn's OPS is barely over .600. Plus he has only 3 BBs and is 1-4 in SBs. I don't know what Gwynn has done to indicate that he can help us out significantly.

 

I don't want to turn this into a Gwynn v. Gross post -- but Gross is not going anywhere. If Hall is in fact out for 6-8 weeks, I don't think there is any evidence to indicate that Gwynn is a solution in the long term at all. As much as it pains me, I think Nix may be our best in house solution.

 

I guess I would rather see what Gross/Mench can do for a week, and get a better read on Hall's injury. Perhaps Gross will start to produce with regular ABs.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think they have the depth to weather this one.

 

I have to agree. Granted, there will be a drop-off offensively if you run Gwynn out there for a couple of weeks, but the OF is a place where the Brewers have an abundance of serviceable bodies.

 

I would almost be willing to give Nix a shot, if only out of curiosity. His AVG and OBP numbers at Nashville are almost identical to Gwynn's, and he's slugging almost .200 higher . This might be the time to fish or cut bait with him, so to speak. (And apparently he's solid defensively.)

 

I like TGJ, but the guy has exactly one extra-base hit of any kind (a triple, as it turns out) in 60-plus AB's at AAA this year. By way of contrast, Yo had four extra-base knocks (three doubles and a HR) in 24 AB's.

[jason21nl]

I think that its time to make a move in the OF. With another hole in the lineup day in and day out I don't think this team will score enough runs to win. Try to go out and get a big bat like JD. I wouldn't think that TGJs name would mean that much in Milwaukee but I guess it does to some.

[Klements Bratwurst]

I'm still for Lofton. He shouldn't cost a fortune. Go get him (if Billy is out 6-8 weeks) and plug him in the lead off spot. Move Hart to a run producing spot to take the place of where Billy was hitting in the 5-6 spot.

 

Then when Billy gets back, you can ease him in the lineup again for the stretch run and you have the best 4th outfielder in the league on the bench in Lofton to pinch run, spot start, etc.

 

Go get him Doug!

[rluzinski]

If the plan is to have Gwynn lead off hitter for the next couple of weeks, that's a huge offensive drop off. I really hope that's not the plan. I could live with him playing CF batting 8th against RH pitchers (although I'd rather just see Gross in RF against RHers, if Hart he can play adequate defense in CF, though. Either way, it would mean that Melvin would need to acquire a RH corner outfielder, unless Jenkins starts playing full time (which I'd rather not see, either).

 

What I don't see happening is Melvin acquiring a big name, everyday outfielder.

[MoneyballMan]

I would almost be willing to give Nix a shot, if only out of curiosity. His AVG and OBP numbers at Nashville are almost identical to Gwynn's, and he's slugging almost .200 higher . This might be the time to fish or cut bait with him, so to speak. (And apparently he's solid defensively.)

 

I kind of agree, but I won't stand up and argue strongly in Nix's favor. He does have some MLB experience and when healthy showed signs of being solid. I just thinking checking Nix out is just as good (with better upside) than Gwynn. Someone else pointed out that Nix is 26, so this could also be the one shot we give him. If he fails, he's probably out of the league and we can stop fooling ourselves that he may still turn into something.

[hauser42]

I didn't realize how bad Gwynn jr was doing at AAA, guess the leopard could not change his spots.

 

If Hall is out for a good amount of time they are going to really think about bringing someone in. I like Gabe Gross but not sold he can get the job done day in and day out. Jenks playing fulltime would kill this team, he would go back to whaling at all kinds of pitches and strand runner after runner.

[RU Rah Rah]

Someone else pointed out that Nix is 26, so this could also be the one shot we give him. If he fails, he's probably out of the league and we can stop fooling ourselves that he may still turn into something.

 

Yeah, exactly. If he's not going to surpass Mench, Gross, or TGJ, then it's probably time to try to unload him.

[Never Outhustled]

As I said in another thread, call up Joe Dillon to platoon with Gross in RF, with Hart in CF. Dillon has been far and away the best hitter in Nashville, and has had a real good AAA career.

[Kpanz20]

I find it funny that with all the comments so far on possible options there is not really any mention of Kevin Mench. I mean isn't that why we have him in the first place? Isn't that why one of their strengths as a team is outfield depth? Yeah he has much better numbers vs. lefthanded pitching.but when he was playing everyday in Texas he was a solidly productive player.

 

I'm not in love with Mench or anything but if people are looking to acquire an outfielder and lets say he was still on the Rangers...they'd say a guy with 25/26 home runs 2 years in a row would be a pretty good option.

[1992casey]

As most of you have probably noticed, jwill535 reported Drew Olsen's comnments in the locked thread that Tony will be recalled to replace Hall.

[JohnBriggs12]

The same guys who love to point to Gwynn's successes as being "small sample size" are all over him for his AAA performance in 66 measly AB's.

 

Will you guys at least try to be fair in your analysis of his game?

 

As for batting order, there's no need to bat him leadoff and move Hart. Move Hardy from 2nd to 5th, then bat either Gwynn or Weeks second. As I stated in locked thread, getting Weeks going has to be a priority. So I'd bat Rickie second and let him see more fastballs ahead of Braun and Fielder. Then put Gwynn in that 8 spot.

[rluzinski]

The same guys who love to point to Gwynn's successes as being "small sample size" are all over him for his AAA performance in 66 measly AB's.

 

I just add that to what he did in AAA last year and to his minor league career in general.

[Fatter than Joey]

The same guys who love to point to Gwynn's successes as being "small sample size" are all over him for his AAA performance in 66 measly AB's.

 

This is an interesting point -- but I think I can address it

 

Speaking to the 66 ABs in Nashville this year -- especially the ones after his demotion -- I think we all were hoping that TGJ could hit well in Nashville benefiting from everyday ABs, and show what he can do -- the sobering thing is that 66 ABs, fall pretty much in line with his career minor league stats -- which seem to indicate that Gwynn is not a good contact hitter -- does not walk at a high rate, and will not be an efficient base stealer, and has 0 power -- and cannot even get a lot of gap-doubles.

 

His major league "successes" are truly the small sample. These 66 ABs, really fall in line with the rest of his minor league career.

 

To his credit, he has performed better at the MLB level, and we probably saw his ceiling this year -- a solid 4-5 OF on a good team. I wouldn't say that Gwynn is useless -- or won;t have a MLB career -- but I wouldn't imagine him starting for a good team in CF, and certainly not at the corners.

[Kpanz20]

I doubt Yost will mess with the current top 4. I could see him putting Estrada back in the 5-hole, or maybe Jenkins against righties. I don't think Gwynn will even start in the Nats series...I feel like Gross will get the majority of the bat and that Gwynn's there for insurance. The next 2 games of the series start righties.. and I bet Jenks and Gross start.

It'll be interesting though to see how Jenkins or the combination of Jenkins/Gross/Gwynn performs against the lefty tonight. There will have the be a lefty/lefty matchup tonight for one of the OF spots.

[sgtcluels]

This official yet?

[Ennder]

Quote:

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The same guys who love to point to Gwynn's successes as being "small sample size" are all over him for his AAA performance in 66 measly AB's.

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Gwynn has an .657 OPS in his major league career in 171 PA's

Gwynn had an .694 OPS in his minor league career in over 1900 PA's going into this season.

[JJ Hardy Har Har]

Quote:

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These 66 ABs, really fall in line with the rest of his minor league career.

---

 

03 A: .280/.366/.326/.692

04 AA: .243/.312/.311/.623

05 AA: .271/.370/.338/.708

06 AAA: .300/.360/.396/.756

07 AAA: .258/.315/.288/.603

 

I personally see a drop-off more than something that's in-line with his career numbers.

 

And it's pure speculation, but I couldn't imagine his '07 AAA performance trend to continue as it was, as he's never performed so poorly.

[Thurston Fluff]

Nix at AAA has a career 880 OPS vs Gwynn's 756. I wonder if they aren't inclined to give Gwynn some regular playing time in the 8 hole for a week or two and see if some other team is interested in him. Why would they bother with a slappy when they have someone who has some power and plays sound defense?

[Lil Dummy]

"I'd say that it's beaten to death about as much as the phrase, 'I know it's a small sample but...'"

 

Completely agree. Moving on.

 

"He would have to perform well offensively for an extended period (200+ AB) before I'd readjust my personal opinion of him. Can you literally just not see Gwynn being able to do that?"

 

Well, I can't see Gwynn getting 200+ AB this year, if that's what you're asking, so I'll live with the fact that you're not going to like him, regardless of what he does or doesn't do, until at least mid-2008. My goal is more modest - a simple cessation of posts about Gwynn's limitations. We all know. We all get it. It's beyond tedious at this point.

 

"My post was prompted by you suggesting that Gwynn is being unjustly criticized on this board but we'll just have to ignore that fact. I think it's only fair for you to be able to call posters out without fear of having to actually justify your position."

 

For the third or fourth time today, my point in the initial thread is that, regardless of what Gwynn does, he's going to take heat on a daily basis on this board. No other player (not even Turnbow!) gets this treatment. This much negative energy directed towards any player in a Milwaukee Brewer uniform, on a Brewer "fan" website, is both sad and embarrassing. The fact that Gwynn performed well enough over 49 games this year to get the callup from Melvin (a better judge of baseball talent than you or I by a longshot) makes it rather silly, to boot.

 

That's all. If my fundamental point still eludes you, Russ, let's just agree to disagree.

[parkside21]

Posted this in the other thread, copying it here for discussion or answers:

 

I don't really see how the Luis Castillo comparison works, because as Rluz said, he stinks.

 

However, that leads me to wonder, has Gwynn ever been tried at other positions? Mainly, could he play second base? I think one of the problems we have with Gwynn and his low OPS and beyond poor power numbers is because he plays outfield. He plays a very sound defensive outfield, and I wonder if that could translate somehow to the infield? Historically, as we know, most 2B not named Jeff Kent or Chase Utley put up numbers similar to Gwynn, decent OBP with speed at the top of the lineup (maybe hitting 2nd for some team, ala Castillo). Maybe he'd have a better chance of sticking with this team if he were able to be converted to a Counsellino type player when those guys leave.

[rluzinski]

For the third or fourth time today, my point in the initial thread is that, regardless of what Gwynn does, he's going to take heat on a daily basis on this board. No other player (not even Turnbow!) gets this treatment.

 

Only after someone types:

 

1. Did you see his catch? Gwynn is the real deal! He's earned the right to start every day. I can't figure out why he was ever even sent down!

 

OR:

 

2. I don't understand why Gwynn doesn't get more love on this message board. What does this guy have to do to get praised?

 

The very first nice catch or bunt single Gwynn gets will start the the marry go round up again and then you can act stunned that some feel compelled to explain why they aren't as excited about it as others.

 

You make it sound like if Gwynn has a good game a "Gwynn sucks" thread will pop up unprovoked.

 

He plays a very sound defensive outfield, and I wonder if that could translate somehow to the infield?

 

Gwynn would certainly have more value as a middle infielder but that kind of defensive transition is almost non-existent.