Brewers have serious interest in Jose Reyes?

[RockCoCougars]

They probably could. It's that they can't lock themselves into a $100+ million payroll long-term.

 

Right, but there is a bunch of salary freed up this year and the next two with guys like Fielder, Wolf, Greinke and Hart coming off the books- that's 40-some million right there. If the team wants to pursue them, they should be able to, it's not they are not stuck with a Suppan-esque/Riske sunk cost like they were in 2007/2008. The only guys they have long term commitments to are Braun, Gallardo and Weeks. I'd rather that they make a commitment to one of their own (Fielder, Greinke, etc.) than take the risk of entering into a terrible long term deal with the likes of Rollins or Reyes. I'd think about Ramirez, but no way in heck would I give him more than 2 years, and I'd even hesitate to do that.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I have a hard time believing the Brewers would pass if Boras crawled back with his tail between his legs and asked if the $100 million 5 year deal is still on the table.

[brettac1]

If that happened, it'd be in March. The bidding hasn't even started on Fielder yet, and it won't until the winter meetings.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Brettac, it will be over WAY before then. I don't think a high profile FA has ever waited till March. The market will develop for Fielder within the next 30-60 days and it won't be a secret (meaning the Brewers will know what it will take to sign him).

[brettac1]

That's what I mean... the Brewers have no chance. People are just catching onto this dream that they can sign him cheaply just because he didn't sign in the first two weeks of FA, even though no big name player has signed.

 

He'll sign at the winter meetings like Boras clients always do.

[fondybrewfan]

You can't base your budget entirely on what happened last year because that 3 million in attendance and playoff games would go on their 2011 fiscal year and shouldn't be included when determining their 2012 budget. Granted the attendance and playoff gate may have allowed the team to generate a pretty solid profit last year but it shouldn't be used to determine a future budget becuase it would be unwise to assume the same thing happens again in 2012. Obviously if it doesn't Mark A could lose money or we could be forced to be a seller at the trade deadline. I highly doubt that the Brewers use a 3 million attendance mark when filling out the budget because that is a number that Milwaukee probably won't hit year in and and year out. I would guess the Brewers budget for 2.8 million or so; at that level you certainly can't have a $100 million payroll. All things considered including the small market a payroll around $90 Million is really rather incredible as it is.

[RockCoCougars]

Again, it's that small market mentality... while I agree that you can't use 2011 to determine your budget 5 years out, I'd say it's a near guarantee that they will draw 3 million next year and probably in 2013. As long as the team puts a good product on the field, the honeymoon will continue. What are average ticket prices? Then you've got the suites (which I would guess increased even more than the ticket prices), a new TV deal, merchandising, promotional money, concessions and the team even seems to control the parking money now. I'd guess that the team would be close to 80-90 million on ticket/suite revenue alone. Another thing that people don't often consider is that Attanasio assumed a lot of debt when he bought the team. Interest rates are far lower now then they were when he bought the team. Refinancing that debt could potentially shave millions in costs per year.

 

Bottom line, unless you are an oil cartel or something, any business that can increase prices in this economy is making money.

[Oldcity]

It's not a mentality. The Brewers payroll has skyrocketed since Mark A has taken over, and he's raised it every year. They were middle of the pack in payroll this year, and I imagine it will go up to around 90 or so. There's nothing wrong with the payroll here at all.

[CheezWizHed]

Bottom line, unless you are an oil cartel or something, any business that can increase prices in this economy is making money.

 

Hmmm... an oil cartel that doesn't make money? Not on this planet... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[madtowndrunkard]

Almost every business in the US has increased prices over the past couple years. Trust me, they aren't all making $...and those that are making $, aren't making much. Almost everything costs more....almost every expense the team has goes up every year. The cost of food alone has gone up considerably the last 2 years. Just for concessions to maintain the same profit margin they'd have to increase food prices 25% or more, compared to 4 years ago. Transportation costs have gone way up. Insurance costs in most cases are higher. Engery costs are way up compared to 4 years ago. And most of all player salaries are up. The wage increases of Braun, Hart, and Weeks this year, easily eat up Prince's salary last season.

 

Last season was probably close to as good as it gets for ticket sales $. Im' sure there is a chance of a small increase, but its not enough to make a big difference in payroll. The TV deal is most crucial. Advertising $ will probably be close to as good as it gets next year as well.... we'd basically have to win a WS to see a big jump in advertising $. I think Mark has done a nice job of maximizing cash flow for this team....which is the reason we've seen payroll approach $100million. From what I've heard the Brewers goal is to break even. Meaning Mark is willing to increase payroll to the point were he's close to breaking even...he doesnt need income off the team..and if he started raking in profits he'd be giving half of it to the government. Mark understands long term investing... the Brewers are along term investment for him. As long as the team can pay off debt and increase value he's good. It sounds like Mark is willing to take a loss (or invest more $ into the team) to lock up Prince. It's a safe bet that Prince will produce, and he does help ticket sales. Reye's is a gamble not worth taking, unless you can easily deal with him not performing up to his contract.

[YoungGeezy]

madtowndrunkyard is right on

 

Its not a small market mentality, its a smart mentality. Believe it or not you can be fisically responsible, build a great team, and win games. If there is one person in America who knows how to handle money, and make great investments its Mark A. Its what he does for a living. He has only made millions and millions of dollars from it so my guess he may know what he is doing. You do not make that kind of money if you irresponsible decisions. The Brewers market is also very unsustainable compared to New York, Boston, Chicago and etc. due to our small market. 2010 showed that. As soon as the Brewers stopped winning, fans stopped coming, stopped buying merchandise, and we lose a lot of money. Mark A wants a winning product and to breakeven, like most owners he owns a team out of passion and not for capital. So he will align the budget to where he feels he is not putting the franchise at risk and we will be competitive on the field. Where that puts us with our budget, I cannot say. My business degree is pretty small compared to the guy who pulling in millions a year in the investment game. So I'll lower my ego of wanting to sign Fielder and Reyes and Broxton, and Wison and anyone else we can sign to a big contract to feel like the Yankees and put my faith in the expert to decide what is right and responsible for the Brewers.

[RockCoCougars]

Hmmm... an oil cartel that doesn't make money? Not on this planet..

 

Obviously that didn't come out right. I meant more along the lines that a cartel can increase prices whenever they feel like it, down economy or not.

 

As for payroll, I think it's defeatist for fans to assume that 90 million is the limit. Obviously, the costs of running a business have increased over the past few years, and I would expect the Brewers to keep increasing prices on things to keep up with that. At the same time, I'm not a babe in the woods. Considering 3 million in attendance, with the associated concession and parking revenue along with national TV money, I'd be shocked if they only broke even last year, especially considering the playoff money. Looking at the financials of Tampa during their WS run in 2008, they reaped over $17 million in revenue from their postseason alone(2 extra home games than the Brewers). The Brewers may have broken even on the books by retiring extra debt, depreciating the facilities, scoreboard, etc., but they should have made a healthy profit otherwise. Throw in the fact that they will likely reap extra millions in local TV money beginning next year, I don't see why a payroll increase to the mid-high 90's for the next few years is unreasonable. I'm not ungrateful to Attanasio, because he has increased the payroll and the product on the field from the Selig shoestring operation, however at the same time, revenue is through the roof as well. This perfectly illustrates the fact that you have to spend money to make money.

[NievesNoNO]

I agree with the sentiment that it's not really a question of being able to afford Reyes (or Prince) it's whether or not it's a good financial decision. While the team seems to be in a good financial situation right now whether the payroll is 80 or 110 million that's still is not enough for the organization to eat a bad contract and be successful. I don't think there's any chance Reyes' production matches the contract he'll get ( I suppose very few free agents do) but overspending to sign him or Prince is still a compelling argument whether or not you think they're worth the contract or not based on the fact they should have a legit chance to make another run at at a title, at least in the short term.

 

The more I think about it I'd rather add some solid complimentary pieces to this years solid core and see where it goes rather than take on the risk of signing Reyes. If it came down to it I'd rather pay a little more for Prince as I think he is less of a risk.

[RockCoCougars]

The more I think about it I'd rather add some solid complimentary pieces to this years solid core and see where it goes rather than take on the risk of signing Reyes. If it came down to it I'd rather pay a little more for Prince as I think he is less of a risk.

 

Agreed.

 

In the end, I think that there is a lot of uncertainty after 2012. 3/5 of the starting rotation could be gone. Even if the payroll is there for these guys, there is no guarantee that the Brewers won't get outbid by a big market team. I just don't see the young arms to step in to fill the void. I think that the Brewers need to forget about Reyes and make an honest effort to resign Prince. In the likely occurrence that doesn't happen, I think they need to push hard for a Greinke extension. My greatest fear is that the Brewers get shot down for Prince, give someone like Rollins/Ramirez a bad three year deal on the rebound, miss on Greinke and then extend Marcum while adding some overpriced 'pieces' on one year deals.

[BillHall02]

I see what you are saying about our revenue being at probably its highest point in the team's history, and drawing 3 million fans is certainly impressive for a small market like Milwaukee, but you have to look at it from an unbiased perspective. 3 Million is a lot of fans, but it was still only 7th in Baseball. It's not like we are outdrawing the rest of MLB by a substantial margin. Look at the teams just ahead of us in payroll and you will find San Francisco, Minnesota, and St Louis in the 105-120M range that you seem to think the Brewers can reach. The problem is, that these teams ALSO drew 3 million fans AND are in much larger markets than Milwaukee. For us to match them we'd be doing so with similar attendance and significantly less media revenue then they have. I could see your point if you thought that those teams simply chose not to max out their payroll like Attanasio claims he does, but if you look at their situations, with St. Louis in their (potentially) last year with Albert, Minnesota opening a new stadium, and SF coming off a world series win, I don't see any reason to believe that was the case. The simply reality is that the Brewers payroll is currently probably maxed out, with our market disadvantage being somewhat lessened by the fact that we can draw fans at a higher level than most. However, our stadium doesn't really leave much room for increasing attendance, and that is something that I believe may soon be a problem. We will never sell out every game, as day games during spring will simply always have plenty of open seats, but we fail to sell some of the seats that we possibly could have during summer weekend games and during big series like against the Cubs or any future inter-league games we may be playing. It hurts me to know that we only sell 20-30k tickets on a thursday get away game in April, but can't sell them to the maybe 50k plus that would be interested in other games later on, that would make up for some of the early ones. County Stadium (in terms of size) would have had much larger season attendance totals than Miller Park imo.

[thebruce44]

No excuse whatsoever that we shouldn't see at least at 10 percent increase in payroll. Three million in attendance, six home playoff games, a new TV deal, tons of new bandwagon fans across the state likely increasing merchandising and advertising revenue, even in a terrible economy. Sorry, I'm not buying the small market mentality anymore. If the Twins can have roughly a $110 million payroll last year, there is no reason whatsoever that the Brewers can't be in the mid to upper 90's. I don't want to hear market size stuff either. The Twin Cities metro is much bigger than the Milwaukee metro, but outstate Wisconsin has much more population density. You can't tell me that Fox Sports North gives the Twins that much extra to televise the games in the Dakotas. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main advantage that the teams in the big markets have is the media revenue.

Would you consider the fact that the new TV deal doesn't start until the 2013 season to be a good excuse? Thats really the only guaranteed increase in funds the team is going to see. I think we should be happy our owners spend more money per household than any other team in baseball.

[Baldkin]

This perfectly illustrates the fact that you have to spend money to make money.

Really what the last 5 seasons have shown that you have to WIN to make money. The team drew 3 million fans, they also had the 17th highest ticket prices in MLB (just over $20) -- to put that in perspective, 4 teams had average ticket prices DOUBLE what the Brewers had this year. The Cardinals, for example, had an average ticket price of $30+, so, if they drew a paltry 2M fans they'd make the same as the Brewers drawing 3M from attendance alone.

[nate82]

Looks like Reyes is still looking for a deal similar to what Crawford got last year. It is going to be a long time before Reyes signs with a team. The Marlins offer may actually be the best offer he is going to get. According to Morosi and Rosenthal the Brewers are not interested in Reyes with his current demands right now.

Link

[TCSM]

Jon Heyman reports "#[/s]brewers gm doug melvin said he plans to meet with jose reyes agents this week. Plot thickens."

[brewmann04]

You really think this will happen i have my doubts that recess will be a Brewer.

[BREWCREW5]

With basically knowing what the Marlins offered....why even meet with his agents unless the Brewers are willing to up the offer?

[Dollarbill13]

Marlins offer $111 over 6 years

 

If that link is true, I think we should give up on Reyes.

[brettac1]

Yeah... forget that. If they are going to blow money, at least Fielder is durable.

[nate82]

Marlins offer $111 over 6 years

 

If that link is true, I think we should give up on Reyes.

If that deal is true then Reyes is a Marlin as no one is going to top that deal.

[brewmann04]

That total insane wonder what will happen when pulls his first hammy.