Brewers have serious interest in Jose Reyes?

[TheCrew]

Why would you want to trade Hart for Prado just to save a few million. Coming into 2011 he was pretty comparable career wise to McGehee. He wasn't much better than McGehee last year either.

He had a legit reason for the poor season last year (staph infection) yet he was still a far better player than McGehee.... even if your a WAR guy, Prado had nearly double the value of McGehee from 2009-2011...... sorry, but they are not comparable at all. Prado has a track record of success, McGehee's 1.5 seasons of success with the Brewers are starting to look like the outlier, not the norm.

 

Prado doesn't hit HR's but outside of that, you'll have a tough time finding fault in his game - when only Braun and Pujols have more doubles over the course of 2 seasons (from 2009-2010) the guy should garner some respect offensively.

 

FWIW, I also never said it should be a straight up trade, but part of the purpose would be salary relief.

[TheCrew]

Also just read this on MLBTR: Prado projects to earn approximately $4.4MM next season as a second-time arbitration eligible player.

 

Looks like I was even projecting high when I said 1.5x's last years salary.

[JohnBriggs12]

The problem with signing Reyes is then they don't have the money to extend Greinke.

That's not a problem it's a blessing. If Greinke took what he was worth based on the past 2 seasons, he'd get something like $45-50 million over 4. But his asking price is going to be more in line with what he did in 2009, and the Brewers wouldn't be wise to do that.

[Raw Biz]

No Martin Prado is incapable of playing RF because he's never done it in his career and he doesn't have the arm.

Just because someone has never done something in their career doesn't mean they can't do it. Everyone has never done something until they actually do it. The arm comment actually makes sense and I don't know why you didn't just use that in the first place. On the other hand, Morgan played quite a bit in RF this year and he has a noodle. I'm not saying I want Prado or even that I'd like to see Hart gone but given the choice between Reyes and someone else in RF or Hart and someone else at SS, I'd take Reyes. All of this is assuming a reasonable contract of course.

I don't know who the "someone else" is, but I'd be hesitant to trade a 4 win player making $9 M to sign a 5-6 win player who will make $17 M+.

There is too much uncertainty here - what are we getting back for Hart? Who would we sign in RF (I see no one valuable on the market)? Who would we sign in SS if we traded him (Barmes would be a great sign IMO)?

That said, looking at Hart as anything but a part of the Brewers core is silly. The only reason you trade him is if you get a GREAT deal for him.

 

First, they would have to actually sign Reyes. They wouldn't trade Hart before they signed him. Second, they wouldn't necessarily have to trade Hart. The whole time I've been talking, I've said a reasonable salary for Reyes so $17 mil is probably the limit. I think they could still keep Hart for a year along with Reyes and then explore trading Hart next year if they wanted.

I still think a guy like Hart is more replaceable than finding a SS like Reyes. I'm not saying it's easy just easier than finding a Reyes-type. Like I said earlier, you're not stuck with just RF. You can look at LF and 1B and move Braun/Gamel to RF. I also don't think Hart should be part of the core because he's entering his age 30 season. I just think he's going to start declining rapidly because of his size. Maybe not next year or even 2013 but when it happens, I think it will be huge, not gradual. So if you can get something of value for him (and I totally think you can), you go ahead and do it. I never said Prado was the answer (I think we could get more) but he is a good player.

I just don't think Corey Hart should be considered part of the future and if you can trade him for something of value (while also signing Reyes), then there shouldn't be any hesitation.

[Raw Biz]

The problem with signing Reyes is then they don't have the money to extend Greinke.

That's not a problem it's a blessing. If Greinke took what he was worth based on the past 2 seasons, he'd get something like $45-50 million over 4. But his asking price is going to be more in line with what he did in 2009, and the Brewers wouldn't be wise to do that.

I don't necessarily think so. I don't think Greinke is all about the money (at least not as much as the average athlete) and playing for a winner and playing somewhere he's comfortable is much more important. I think he could be extended for something like 60/4, which isn't too bad.

[BREWCREW5]

This thread has turned from Reyes rumors to Hart's value and what Prado will earn.

 

brutal.

[YoungGeezy]

1. It is completely worthless to trade Hart to add Reyes. Beyond a horrible move. Reyes can not replace Fielder and Hart nor will the cheap option we bring in during trade. There are other ways to open up payroll that not make us worse.

 

2. Its laughable that someone could say Greinke is not worth the money. Figure it out, era is a terrible stat and outside of that he flat out dominated in almost every other category. Yo, Marcum, Wolf, etc. Plus Wolf is a 10terrible milling dollar pitcher in the market today. I don't see have Greinke could be considered near that....outside of era ( not legit argument)

[nate82]

2. Its laughable that someone could say Greinke is not worth the money. Figure it out, era is a terrible stat and outside of that he flat out dominated in almost every other category. Yo, Marcum, Wolf, etc. Plus Wolf is a 10terrible milling dollar pitcher in the market today. I don't see have Greinke could be considered near that....outside of era ( not legit argument)

Its laughable? Even if the Brewers could afford Greinke and another position player I still wouldn't want to see the Brewers lock up Greinke for a long term contract. While I love Greinke and I think he is a great pitcher I still do not want to see the Brewers put $15m+ into a starting in a long term contract. The risk just out weighs the reward here and it wouldn't be a smart move by the Brewers it could possibly be a franchise crippling deal for the Brewers.

[YoungGeezy]

I prob should have worded that better. It is laughable to believe Greinke as a player is worth the 14-15 million dollars and in no way even close to only being worth 10. How many frontline, Cy Young Winners, with great stuff, good health, and gives you a great chance to win every night can you buy for 10 million a year? I know we were able to get two outstanding ones that fit the bill for that price in Suppan and Wolf but that is raw to have hits like that at that price.....

 

I personally don't see a way for use to have a competitive rotation if we don't resign him. It screams 2010 all over. Yo by himself can not win us 85-95 games. Only pitches 32 times or so. Sure we have some young guys.....realistically, you can't bank on the shining in their 1st or 2nd seasons to carry us to the playoffs. We of course trade our system again for another pitcher but it will be tough to get a younger, cheaper option to help carry rotation with Yo. Maybe we can sell off one of our big offensive players to make up the difference. Can sign a few more 10 million dollar Wolf's or bring in and hope some Narvy types shine.

 

2013

Gallardo

Narveson

Peralta

Fiers

Scarpetta/Thornburg/Rivas/Trade/ FA/Estrada

 

Yikes...

 

Know if we have 2 Aces that makes it a little brighter. Yo and Zack give us a great shot to win every night, Narvy can get job done and all you need is for 2 young guys to hopefully step up over needing 3 and praying that one really shines. Not a fan. I also have no interest in re selling our whole system but by 2013, who knows what it will look like or how good it will be

[TheCrew]

It all depends on what Greinke wants - I don't think anyone on this board would have a problem if he signed a $10 million dollar annual extension with the Brewers...... I doubt he'd give them that type of discount though.

[paul253]

I'd give Greinke $15 million a year for four years. As of right now, the Brewers just don't have enough arms to remain competitive if Greinke leaves. Like Geezy said, Gallardo can't do it by himself. And what if he gets hurt again? A rotation of Narveson, Peralta, Fiers and Marco Estrada isn't going to cut it. They need to keep Greinke for now and hope Jungmann, Bradley, Thornburg, and Peralta turn out. Guys like Heckathorn and Scarpetta haven't really shown that they can be relied on to be successful major league pitchers. Not yet at least. This is also why I think they need to trade Marcum. Get a young, controllable and talented arm if you can.

[Invader3K]

I'd give Greinke $15 million a year for four years.

I think most of us would be reasonably comfortable with that (assuming the Brewers can afford that). The problem is he might be looking for more like a 5-6 year deal, which I don't think the Brewers should mess with.

[JohnBriggs12]

My point isn't that Greinke isn't a quality starting pitcher but that he's not an ace. He's had one "ace quality" year in his career. One. Forget ERA. Opposing hitters have hit a cumulative .260 and slugged .411 off of him for his career. There's nothing special about those numbers. Those numbers are a lot closer to Narveson (.258 BAA, .421 SPA) than they are to Gallardo Against Gallardo, hitters have a cumulative .240 BA and a .380 SP. Lets compare him to his Cardinal counterpart, Adam Wainwright. Hitters have hit .244 and slugged just .361 off of Wainwright.

 

I have the benefit of having MLB Extra Innings. I heard many an out of town color commentator (including a lot of ex pitchers) comment that Greinke threw harder in 2009 and they frankly were not overly impressed with his stuff. The tipping point for me was his final game against St. Louis when it was noted he had induced one swing and miss in his first 75 pitches. That's an ace?

 

That's not to say he doesn't have value. The max I'd offer him would be $52 million over 4 with some incentives that would add some on to that. But this is a guy who people have thrown out numbers like $85-90 million over 5-6 years and no way do I do that.

 

The Brewers success this year had more to do with their bullpen which was as good as it gets in the 2nd half, and having two of the top 3 MVP candidates in the middle of the order than it did the starting pitching.

[Bnowell4evr]

Whenever I see a post by John Briggs I know there's a 90% chance he's bashing Zack Greinke in some sort of way.

[RockCoCougars]

Greinke was apparently offered $100 million last year by Washington and still vetoed the trade. I don't care what his personality is, that will likely be the starting point. He may go a tad lower, but you're fooling yourself if you think he will go 4/60. This begs the question, is he worth $100 million... based on last year, I'm not sure.

[StearnsFTW]

Greinke was apparently offered $100 million last year by Washington and still vetoed the trade. I don't care what his personality is, that will likely be the starting point. He may go a tad lower, but you're fooling yourself if you think he will go 4/60. This begs the question, is he worth $100 million... based on last year, I'm not sure.

Based on last year, he can want $100M as much as he wants, but he's not getting it. 4/$60M sound about right based solely on 2011.

[Raw Biz]

Greinke was apparently offered $100 million last year by Washington and still vetoed the trade. I don't care what his personality is, that will likely be the starting point. He may go a tad lower, but you're fooling yourself if you think he will go 4/60. This begs the question, is he worth $100 million... based on last year, I'm not sure.

Don't you think that means that money isn't as important to him? If money was important he would've just done the trade. But he wanted to play for a winner and saw he had a better chance here. I wouldn't pay him $100 million if that's what it's going to take. But I don't think it will. I think he could be had for 15/yr. I don't understand why that's such a crazy statement. His numbers have fallen off a bit in the past couple of years, he wants to play for a winner, and he probably wants to play somewhere he's comfortable (i.e. probably not a NY, BOS, or CHI).

[nate82]

Greinke has also said in the media that he would be interested in playing with the Nationals and would entertain going there when he hits free agency. He said something like that at the beginning of the year it was about a month or two after being traded to the Brewers. So Greinke does have some interest in going to the Nationals and the Nationals are going to have the money to pay Greinke a lot more than what the Brewers are going to be able to afford. A contract of $15m a year for Greinke is in dreamland it is going to cost at least $18m a year at 5-7 years for the Brewers to resign Greinke. No way do I want the Brewers to even think about offering Greinke a contract for $18m+ a year to a pitcher for 5-7 years it is just not worth the risk that the Brewers would be taking on.

[pingman]

re Prado for Hart....the chances of this is 0% ....

 

1) the Braves are putting Prado (and Jurrjens) on the trade market to CUT PAYROLL ....they need $$$$ to fill other needs

2) Prado is projected to earn in the neighborhood of $5 million in '12 ......

3) as a Braves fan, Prado is only acceptable as an emegency OF ....his best position is 2B followed by 3B. .....IMHO he was did not throw very well for a LF in '11, partially because he still has an infielders throwing motion (much like Braun's 1st year in LF, but he has improved greatly since)

4) the Rockies are talking to the Braves about Prado.....potentially a much more realistic trading partner for the Braves

[nate82]

Wren has stated they are increasing payroll this year not cutting payroll. The Braves are not trading Jurrjens because of payroll it is because they have younger players who are ready to jump in. The Braves are not going to trade Jurrjens for anything less than a Greinke like deal from the last off season.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2011/11/8/2547817/braves-gm-frank-wren-discusses-offseason-plans

http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/frank-wren-braves-general-manager-joined-mlb-30649

[paul253]

After shortstop, the club is looking for a right-handed hitting corner outfield bat.

 

 

 

 

If the Brewers can get one of Minor, Delgado, Beachy, or Vizcaino for Hart, I think you jump on it. I'd even offer to pay half of Hart's salary for one of them. I hope

 

Melvin explores this.

[TheCrew]

re Prado for Hart....the chances of this is 0% ....

 

1) the Braves are putting Prado (and Jurrjens) on the trade market to CUT PAYROLL ....they need $$$$ to fill other needs

2) Prado is projected to earn in the neighborhood of $5 million in '12 ......

3) as a Braves fan, Prado is only acceptable as an emegency OF ....his best position is 2B followed by 3B. .....IMHO he was did not throw very well for a LF in '11, partially because he still has an infielders throwing motion (much like Braun's 1st year in LF, but he has improved greatly since)

4) the Rockies are talking to the Braves about Prado.....potentially a much more realistic trading partner for the Braves

That's fine, play Prado at 3B then and you have insurance if Weeks goes down as well - plus he can be an emergency OF as you stated and while he may have a weaker arm than Hart, I'm going to guess that he more than makes up for that in every other area defensively....... I'm basing that on the fact that he plays plus defense pretty much everywhere else.

 

Also, FWIW, Prado is projected at $4.4 per MLBTR as of yesterday.

[FoxyFoxes]

I've been pretty quiet here anticipating something happening this offseason . Anyway, putting my two cents worth in , I think the Brewers NEED the Reyes/Fielder signing. Anyone realize that our biggest free agent signings so far have been Randy Wolf/JEff Suppan. When is this going to change? I get the Crew won't be signing Pujols/Sabathia/Texiera/Fielder every single season......but it hasn't happened yet. I also get the finances aspect. I just think this is the offseason to do this . Reyes needs to be a Brewer.

[TheCrew]

Greinke was apparently offered $100 million last year by Washington and still vetoed the trade. I don't care what his personality is, that will likely be the starting point. He may go a tad lower, but you're fooling yourself if you think he will go 4/60. This begs the question, is he worth $100 million... based on last year, I'm not sure.

Don't you think that means that money isn't as important to him? If money was important he would've just done the trade.

Or he believes he is worth far more than $100 million - which, to me, seems far more likely than him falling in love with Mil. in 1 year and giving a massive discount.

[pingman]

you're missing the point....the Braves need money to cover salary increases for various players...for example, they want to extend Michael Bourne before he enters free agency after '12 not to mention his '11 salary increase....and they need to find a SS....and find an impact bat for LF if they don't move Prado