Fitness/Exercise/Diet/Health

[dannyjnoonan]

Southpaw,

 

Wha? Of course not. I'm actually kind of scratching my head as to which law of thermodynamics you hallucinated that we were talking about. Care to elaborate? (Just speculating, but you're thinking the 1st Law applies, but that would mean that you'd have to view the human body as a simple, static, closed system?)

 

The "everyone is different" thing is PC and all, but as a species and when it comes to health, we're more similar than we are different. Sure there are people who have conditions that make them different, but for the vast majority of human existence, humans ate and lived a certain way and it worked (tribal wars, trauma and disease not withstanding), and most of it still works now. If we're looking at the history of mankind, you are the one in the minority in your diet approach. Is low carb "necessary" to lose weight? Maybe not, but it certainly seems sufficient to me. And this approach is gaining a lot of traction, even outside my "cult." Check out Gary Taubes to get you started.

 

As somebody that trains people, I can tell you that people that train the way I do see results. And more importantly, they LOVE it. I can also tell you that almost all of them come to us after not seeing results and becoming totally bored with some trainer at a franchise gym. You may say I'm culty, but I'm not even trying to push the CrossFit brand (even though I do own a CrossFit gym in Milwaukee. I'm not selling memberships here, and I'm well aware that CrossFit didn't invent variation, intensity or functionalty. But it did package them well, and the name is an easy shorthand for that methodology). I can see the "culty" label in some ways, but I think it's just because you globo-gym guys don't really understand how people can be so into fitness. I think it's a good thing when people are enthusiastic about being in shape. I think the "conventional wisdom" of low fat and long slow distance is the cult. It's brand new in the grand scheme of things, and people cling to it even in the face of an onslaught of new evidence. Is CrossFit necessary for seeing results? Of course not, but if your desired result is general fitness, it absolutely does work.

[southpaw121505]

"You globo gym guys." I don't work in a franchise gym, I'm independent. I also am "so into fitness." Which should be obvious based on me making a thread about it on brewerfan.net. The reason you guys sound like a cult is just that. Do you seriously believe people can't progress and reach their goals while eating carbs? You honestly believe that someone's main priority to lose weight should be to cut sugar and not calories? If so, there is no point in continuing this discussion. Keto and crossfit works for you and you love it, that's awesome. But acting as if it's the only way is just ignorant. Especially when the subject is a single father with limited equipment and past injuries. He should look into crossfit? Really? Give me a break.

[jjkoestler]

I do strength training 5 days a week and usually manage to do a couple days of cardio as well. My goal is to get more cut. I am currently 5'10 and weigh 198 lbs. Are there any supplements you'd recommend? I am a vegetarian so getting protein and ditching carbs is difficult.

 

My current routine is:

 

Breakfast:

Soy Protein (25 grams)

Oxyelite

Orange Triad

 

Lunch

Meal replacement bar (30 grams protein)

 

Pre-workout

Nitric Oxide (No Xplode, Jacked, or White Flood)

Blue Gene - I just started cycling

 

Post-workout

Whey Protein (50grams)

Creatine

 

Evening

Soy Protein (25grams)

Orange Triad

Oxyelite

 

Edit: I should also mention that I hate running and biking. My cardio typically consists of boxing or hiking.

[southpaw121505]

jjk, it's hard to give general advice as the devil is in the details, especially with your goal.

 

-Lift as you are, track what you are doing and aim to keep progressing, more weight, more reps, etc.

-I'd get 60 mins of cardio in still, can be anything, elliptical, bike, even walking. Anything to increase oxygen uptake. This can be 30 mins twice after lifting or on off days, 20 mins 3x a week, 15 mins 4x a week. Does not matter, get an hour a week in somehow.

-If you aren't tracking your calories now I'd shoot for about 2600-2800 calories a day on lift days and a little less on off days. At least 200 grams of protein.

 

-I'd drop the oxyelite. If you really want a fat burner go for an ec stack, I'd recommend going without it though. Xtend can help with recovery and to spare muscle. Can count towards your protein total as well and doesn't taste bad.

[dannyjnoonan]

"You globo gym guys." I don't work in a franchise gym, I'm independent. I also am "so into fitness." Which should be obvious based on me making a thread about it on brewerfan.net. The reason you guys sound like a cult is just that. Do you seriously believe people can't progress and reach their goals while eating carbs? You honestly believe that someone's main priority to lose weight should be to cut sugar and not calories? If so, there is no point in continuing this discussion. Keto and crossfit works for you and you love it, that's awesome. But acting as if it's the only way is just ignorant. Especially when the subject is a single father with limited equipment and past injuries. He should look into crossfit? Really? Give me a break.

Of course I'm suggesting that cutting sugar is a better idea. And again, you're hallucinating that I'm saying things that I'm not saying. "People can't reach their goals while eating carbs"? Where did I say that? What I said was that cutting carbs might not be necessary, but it seems sufficient to me. Reducing sugar intake is much more effective than reducing calories, and it's easier and better for you too in the vast majority of circumstances. And why should he not look into CrossFit? Every workout can be scaled. You can do 50% of the movements with dumbells and a pull-up bar, and 80% if you add a barbell. That's a lot less equipment than a treadmill or an elyptical machine. A workout is posted for free on the main site every day (crossfit.com) and scaling options are there in the FAQ. Most people that CrossFit never set foot in a gym. They just follow the main site (although for some of the more complex lifts, I'd definitely reccommend training with a coach for a while). And personally, I do find it more fun in a gym setting. I'm not saying that it's the only way, I'm saying it's the best way. People get enthusiastic about it because it harnasses competition and team--two things that most of us lose as motivators once we're done with high school or college sports (or never had if we never played sports). You may be "into fitness" enough to lift weights and elyptical on your own, but human nature seems to make most people prefer to work out with friends and a stopwatch--once we try it.

 

And I really fail to see how I sound more cult-like than you do. I certainly don't see how it's any more cult-like than triathlon or volleyball or bodybuilding or anything else.

[southpaw121505]

Of course I'm suggesting that cutting sugar is a better idea. And again, you're hallucinating that I'm saying things that I'm not saying. "People can't reach their goals while eating carbs"? Where did I say that?

In your very first reply you disagreed with my very basic general advice for losing weight. The fact that you disagreed with calorie reduction for weight loss is enough to make my head explode by itself. But the next gem was when you said cutting sugar out was more important than decreasing calories. You do realize that sugar is a carb and carbs are calories right? Someone who wants to lose 40 plus pounds can and will lose weight by reducing calories, calories from anywhere. The hormonal response to sugar means absolutely nothing when that person is in a hypocaloric state.

 

Can you clarify for me, are you a trainer? Because you said on page one something about sitting at a desk all day, but then later responded that you train people.

[dannyjnoonan]

Again, you're taking something I say and twisting it. If I say something is the best way, you're taking it as me saying it's the only way. I DIDN'T disagree that calorie reduction works for weight loss. I disagreed that it's the BEST way to lose weight.

 

Yes I realize sugar is a carb. I guess I realize that "carbs are calories" in some contexts of the words and I'm not gonna nitpick. I hope you don't believe the equation is so simple though. You don't actually believe that calories from protein, carbs and fat are all used by the body in the same way, do you? You realize that body composition is affected (I'd say drastically) by things like fat burning, ketone burning, glycogen storage, protein turnover, glucose levels etc. etc., right?

 

I sit at a desk all day because I am a lawyer. I also co-own a CrossFit gym where a train a few classes a week.

[kestrel79]

Okay low to no sugar, low to no carbs I got it.

 

Can you guys recommend some foods that are quick and easy to prepare that are low in carbs and sugar? What do you guys eat just a lot of fruit, veggies, and lean meat? Also some name brand snacks and stuff would be helpful too. Thanks I'm going to try and eat better this winter.

[homer]

I switched over to Kashi brand cereal. They also make "granola" bars (they aren't granola but can't think of what they are called) that are pretty good. I usually put some fruit (bananas, blueberries) into the cereal to add some flavor because at first it can be quite bland.

 

My basic recommendation is to "eat a rainbow often". That's a very simple way to remember to eat a lot of different types of food - none of it being brown. Eat fish, fruits, and lots of veggies. Lean turkey breast, chicken breast, etc.

[dannyjnoonan]

Brewcrew79,

I don't do a ton of snacking, but when I do I eat almonds or other nuts, sometimes beef jerky, sometimes string cheese (although I know a lot of people are down on dairy, I haven't gone that far yet. Still a Wisconsin boy first). Or Pork Rinds! (although those obviously have other problems with--fried and overly salty etc) Meals are usually eggs for breakfast, sometimes with bacon. If I'm running late I'll do a whey protein shake instead. Usually a salad with chicken for lunch. Dinners are usually a peice of meat + a veggie or a salad. I've come up with a lot of low-carb meals over the years too though. I make 3 different kinds of chili that are all paleo and awesome. And really, I do cheat from time to time.

[southpaw121505]

Yes I realize sugar is a carb. I guess I realize that "carbs are calories" in some contexts of the words and I'm not gonna nitpick. I hope you don't believe the equation is so simple though. You don't actually believe that calories from protein, carbs and fat are all used by the body in the same way, do you? You realize that body composition is affected (I'd say drastically) by things like fat burning, ketone burning, glycogen storage, protein turnover, glucose levels etc. etc., right?

No, I was completely unaware that fat burning effects body composition. haha

 

The fact that you are even debating calorie reduction for someone who wants to lose 30+ tells me I'm wasting my time with this.

 

 

Okay low to no sugar, low to no carbs I got it.

 

Can you guys recommend some foods that are quick and easy to prepare that are low in carbs and sugar? What do you guys eat just a lot of fruit, veggies, and lean meat? Also some name brand snacks and stuff would be helpful too. Thanks I'm going to try and eat better this winter.

 

That's not what I'm advising at all. I'm an advocate of whatever you are comfortable with and will stick to. People make it more complicated than it is. Unless you are trying to get sub 8% body fat you can eat any foods you want and if you consistently hit your macronutrient goals you will progress.

[jjkoestler]

southpaw121505]Xtend can help with recovery and to spare muscle. Can count towards your protein total as well and doesn't taste bad.

This?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sv/xtend.html

 

If so, why do you like it?

[Cdiddy34]

go vegan. it's wonderful.

[dannyjnoonan]

The fact that you are even debating calorie reduction for someone who wants to lose 30+ tells me I'm wasting my time with this.

I wouldn't call what you're advocating a complete waste of time, but it's certainly not the best way to get healthy, IMHO. I think we'll probably come to look at the conventional wisdom, low-fat, high carb diet as the equivalent of leeching at some point in the near future, but I could be wrong. Good luck with your personal training business.

 

"Being right too soon is socially unacceptable." -Robert A. Heinlein

[JumpinMacFlash]

The fact that you are even debating calorie reduction for someone who wants to lose 30+ tells me I'm wasting my time with this.

 

 

I don't think Danny is debating the merits of cutting calories. Your debate is only what kind of calories to consume. You're both saying that people need to do what works for them. One of you consumes more carbs. One of you does CrossFit. Yet you've both been successful and healthy. You're both presenting valuable information to people that seem to be eager to take it in. There's nothing wrong with presenting your suggestions. Ultimately, it's up to anyone here to experiment on themselves a bit and find what works for them. Some will pick sides on which advice to take, but the important part is that there are people who are interested in changing their lives and are looking for help.

I'm a mix of both ideologies. Personally, as a result of having a 1 year old and another baby on the way, I have less time to spend on myself. I make my workouts shorter and more intense. I do enjoy running a bit; going out for 4 mile runs a few times a week. It's not grinding cardio, but that kind of activity would probably require a higher carb intake. Since I'm not running as much and I don't want to have that sugar stored in my body, I lower my carb intake. I'm not big on added sugar or grains anyway, but I like veggies and the occasional potatoes/sweet potatoes. I'm not no-carb, I'm just different carb, what I see as more natural or efficient carbs. It took me a lot of searching and a lot of work to find something that works for me and my body.

You're both providing a valuable service with nothing asked for in return. That's a wonderful concept, please focus on that.

[southpaw121505]

This?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sv/xtend.html

 

If so, why do you like it?

Basically if you are trying to lose weight, you want to do everything in your control to ensure that weight lost is from fat and not muscle. Xtend can help with that, it's basically a fast acting protein that spares muscle. It can help you recover faster/get less sore. No supplements are magic, a lot of them are crap, but that's one of the few that at least serves a purpose. Sound diet and training are far more important than any supplement.

 

 

Since I'm not running as much and I don't want to have that sugar stored in my body, I lower my carb intake.

Sugar is not stored in your body any more than broccoli would be. The entire equation depends on calories in vs calories out. Everyone has a maintenance level of calories, a number of calories that if consumed in a given day you will stay the same weight. This number exists regardless of what you do throughout the day. If you sit on the couch all day, your body still burns x number of calories just to keep you alive. Working out increases this number, since you are using more energy(calories). If you eat above that number you are hypercaloric, or have a surplus of calories. Those extra calories will be stored by the body, most likely as fat tissue as potential energy(that's what fat is). On the opposite end, if you eat below that number you are hypocaloric. In that scenario your body has to burn potential energy to keep you alive. Fat stores or muscle are burned as calories to fill the gap. In the simplest sense, being hypocaloric is the only thing needed to lose weight. Your body WILL burn fat in the absence of enough maintenance calories. A high fat, low carb keto diet like danny uses is just a type of diet. It doesn't change the scientific facts and the mechanisms in place. It still comes back to calories in vs calories out.

[jjkoestler]

This?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sv/xtend.html

 

If so, why do you like it?

Basically if you are trying to lose weight, you want to do everything in your control to ensure that weight lost is from fat and not muscle. Xtend can help with that, it's basically a fast acting protein that spares muscle. It can help you recover faster/get less sore. No supplements are magic, a lot of them are crap, but that's one of the few that at least serves a purpose. Sound diet and training are far more important than any supplement.

Its an intra-workout drink, correct? Would I be supplementing Xtend in place of gatorade or water during my workout? How would this stack with a nitric oxide?

 

Thanks again, Southpaw. I don't have many friends who workout and reading supplement reviews in bodybuilding forums don't bear much fruit.

[southpaw121505]

Yes intra, I'd take with water. If you want to take gatorade I'd take it before you workout, within an hour of your workout, maybe even with your prewo drink. And yeah the NO is fine. I usually just drink coffee but I've heard good things about white flood, how do you like it?

[jjkoestler]

White Flood>No Xplode>Jacked

 

White Flood was my first NO. It works really well, but the flavor is pretty intense.

I tried Jacked per the recommendation of a friend, but it didn't give me the same energy/pumps as White Flood. It also contains creatine.

I'm using No Xplode now. It tastes the best of the 3.

[JumpinMacFlash]

Sugar is not stored in your body any more than broccoli would be.

I realize that carbohydrates will be processed or stored similarly. I'm not questioning calorie intake vs output. I just offered my own commentary on my diet and lifestyle. I don't get to exercise as much as I'd like, so I don't eat as much as I would have. I adjusted my calorie intake according to my exercise level, consistent with the advice you're giving. I'm not sure what the disagreement is. I'm not a health or nutrition expert, I never claimed to be. But I'm not an idiot either.

[dannyjnoonan]

southpaw121505 wrote:

 

Since I'm not running as much and I don't want to have that sugar stored in my body, I lower my carb intake.

Sugar is not stored in your body any more than broccoli would be. The entire equation depends on calories in vs calories out. Everyone has a maintenance level of calories, a number of calories that if consumed in a given day you will stay the same weight. This number exists regardless of what you do throughout the day. If you sit on the couch all day, your body still burns x number of calories just to keep you alive. Working out increases this number, since you are using more energy(calories). If you eat above that number you are hypercaloric, or have a surplus of calories. Those extra calories will be stored by the body, most likely as fat tissue as potential energy(that's what fat is). On the opposite end, if you eat below that number you are hypocaloric. In that scenario your body has to burn potential energy to keep you alive. Fat stores or muscle are burned as calories to fill the gap. In the simplest sense, being hypocaloric is the only thing needed to lose weight. Your body WILL burn fat in the absence of enough maintenance calories. A high fat, low carb keto diet like danny uses is just a type of diet. It doesn't change the scientific facts and the mechanisms in place. It still comes back to calories in vs calories out.

Trying to respectfully disagree, but sugar is stored differently than broccoli. As Southpaw is saying, if you eat fewer calories than you consume, you lose weight. We measure the macronutrients in calories or grams, but your body operates in terms of fuel. If you eat more fuel than your body needs, which most people do, the body is forced to store this excess. It's how it's stored that differentiates the macronutrients when we're talking about body composition. All carbs are converted to glucose. (to be clear, broccoli actually is mostly carbohydrates, including sugar, which would indeed be converted to glucose--it just has way fewer carbohydrates than bread or pasta or cake). When you eat food, the body digests the macronutrients (carbs, proteins and fats). If there's too much glucose in bloodstream the pancrease responds by secreting insulin. Insulin is a hormone that allows glucose to gain access to the interior of muscle and liver cells. Glucose is a fuel, but it's also toxic in high amounts. So when the glucose levels in the blood are too high, your body tries to get it out of the bloodstream by storing it as glycogen in liver and muscle cells. Once those cells are full, any additional glucose is converted to and stored as saturated fat. This also leads to insulin resistacnce, which basically everyone agrees is a main cause of obesity and type 2 diabetes. I assure you that it would be really really hard to eat enough broccoli that the calories you got from it would end up as saturated fat or give you diabetes. But all it takes is a can and a half of coke to trigger this kind of response. There's basically no way you can trigger it by eating protein and fat. If anyone thinks I might actually be right about this, I encourage you to look into it more. I'd start with this NY Times article by Gary Taubes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=all

[southpaw121505]

Danny, I agree with what you just said. They key detail is the hypocaloric environment. A can of coke and a bowl of broccoli will effect the body in different ways, I agree. And with the broccoli you get the added benefits of the nutrients and feeling full, which help a diet for obvious reasons. The overall point I'm getting at though is that no food will make you fat or make you hold fat when the body is in a caloric deficit. Those calories, whether from the soda or the vegetable, are burned as fuel before they get a chance to be stored as fat. Fat is only stored if a surplus of calories are present. Otherwise the body uses the calories for energy. Any hormonal response is negated by the cumulative effect of the overall balance of calories.

 

I understand your stance on ketogenic diet, I've toyed with them myself before. Not all people enjoy being in ketosis though. I personally run much better on carbs. I feel better, my workouts are better, I'm building muscle and not gaining fat. I believe in a balanced diet that keys on hitting macronutrient and essentially calorie totals. I give my body just enough energy to run optimally with a slight surplus to build muscle. If and when I cut weight I do the exact same thing except reduce calories to a slight deficit instead of a surplus. It works amazing for me and I advise the same for my clients. With that said, I encourage anyone here to try a keto diet if you are curious about it. I don't disagree with their merits, I just know first hand there are alternatives to people who enjoy carbs and/or want more flexibility.

[Houlie24x]

I'm looking to drop 10 pounds of fat and build muscle. The biggest thing for me right now is to lose the weight which is all on my gut. I recently started running 2 and occasionally 3 times a week and go anywhere from 2-4 miles depending on how much time I have. I also play softball twice a week and soccer twice a week. Both of the soccer and softball seasons end in 3 weeks so my schedule is pretty tight until then. After that I will only be playing soccer indoor once a week so I will have plenty of time to add some weight lifting. I am 27 years old and about 6'1'' 190 pounds.

 

I was wondering if you could give me a weight lifting plan to follow and how many sets/reps I should do of each. I'd like to lift 4 times a week. I am just not very good at knowing what type of lifting to do and when to do it. My goals would be to lose the belly fat, increase speed and jumping ability, and add muscle. I currently eat pretty healthy but once I start lifting, how many calories should I be consuming? How far should I run when I start lifting? I have a Y membership so I will have access to all their typical weights and machines.

 

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer everyone's questions. This thread has been very helpful.

[southpaw121505]

Houlie, in most cases building muscle and losing fat at the same time are impossible. You need a surplus of calories to build muscle and a deficit of calories to burn fat. The good news for you is that when weight training is introduced to a beginner or someone who hasn't been lifting for a while there is a period of time there where you may be able to accomplish both at the same time. The stress of the weights is so great that the body overcompensates some to allow you to meet the new demands being placed on it. So in this scenario you can either cut calories and cut fat, while still building a little muscle during this phase. OR you can eat to build a little muscle and make some really nice progress while in this phase. I strongly recommend the latter to almost anyone, as building muscle is much harder than cutting fat. Maybe not harder, but a slower process. An advanced lifter had a great month if he gains 4 pounds of muscle(not weight, muscle). You can safely lose fat faster than that.

 

As for lifting. It's very hard to give general advice, as the juggling of variables to bring everything together is pretty much why I have a job. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif But in general, 4x a week is awesome, 30-45 mins is plenty. I'd shoot for one compound lift a day and do it first. If you can find your one rep max SAFELY I'd do that and work between 75-95% of that number for anywhere between 8 and 1 reps. Or take a weight you can do for 3x5 and continue to add 5-10 pounds every week. The reason you test is because if you aren't lifting a high enough percentage of your max strength then you aren't doing anything to force the body to adapt, you won't get stronger and your body won't change. Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Barbell Row. After that I'd do 2-5 extra lifts in a lower rep range, say 2-3 sets for 6-12 reps.

 

Sorry, both of those answers were probably longer than necessary, I'm 3 cups of coffee in. If you want a program designed specifically for you and your goals I could write you one and walk you through what you need to be doing. Better yet a few sessions to teach you how to safely do the movements! PS what night do you play indoor? I'm entering my first league, I am not good at soccer, we might need more guys!

[Houlie24x]

I played soccer up until I was 19 or 20 and then my team fell apart as everyone moved away, stopped playing, or whatever. I just started playing soccer again this spring and it made me realize how out of shape I got. It's great motivation to workout though. I will be playing Monday nights in Brookfield starting the last Monday of October I believe. When and where do you play?