Who's The Band? Soundgarden vs. Smashing Pumpkins?

[RyDogg66]

Another installment of "Who's the Band"

 

I figured these two bands are semi-relevant right now with the Pumpkins kind of reuniting and Chris Cornell releasing a solo album.

 

A few snippets from the always reliable Wikipedia...

 

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Soundgarden was the first grunge band to sign to a major label, but they did not achieve commercial success until Seattle contemporaries Nirvana and Pearl Jam popularized grunge in the early 1990s. Soundgarden achieved its biggest success with the 1994 album Superunknown which debuted at number one on the Billboard charts and yielded the Grammy Award-winning singles "Black Hole Sun" and "Spoonman". In 1997, the band broke up due to internal strife over their creative direction.

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The Smashing Pumpkins broke into the musical mainstream with their second album, 1993's Siamese Dream. The group built their audience with extensive touring and their follow-up, 1995's double album Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, debuted at number one on the Billboard charts. With approximately 18.3 million albums sold in the United States alone as of 2006,[4] The Smashing Pumpkins were one of the most commercially successful and critically acclaimed bands of the 1990s.[5] However, internal fighting, drug use, and diminishing sales hampered the band and led to a 2000 break-up.

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Albums:

 

Soundgarden

 

Ultramega OK (198http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/glasses.gif

Louder Than Love (1989)

Badmotorfinger (1991)

Superunknown (1994)

Down on the Upside (1996)

A-Sides (Doesnt really count, a sort of best of)

 

Smashing Pumpkins

 

Gish (1991)

Siamese Dream (1993)

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995)

Adore (199http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/glasses.gif

Machina/The Machines of God (2000)

Machina II (2000)

 

The two bands and lead singer match up pretty well. Dealing with albums first I'd say that The Pumpkins Gish is better than Louder Than Love and Ultramega OK by Soundgarden. The Pumpkins than win the next battle of breakout albums that really put the two on the map - the Pumpkins with Siamese Dream, Soundgarden with Badmotorfinger.

 

Once established a little bit is where Soundgarden catches up. Superunknown is better than the best of Mellon Collie, although both are soild. Further, Down on the Upside is better than the collection of Adore and The Machina albums.

 

Both lead singer then go on to spawn sub-par spinoff bands. Audioslave was better than Zwan, but Cornell's miserable solo album "Euphoria Morning" has to count against him.

 

Now Cornell is back with another solo effort and Corgan back with the Pumpkins.

 

Songs that exemplify the best of the two bands -to me:

 

Pumpkins - Cherub Rock

Soundgarden - Fell On Black Days

 

Who's the Band?

[sheetswannabe]

What? Soundgarden's best song isnt on there! Black hole sun

[RyDogg66]

I only listed one song from either band...besides, "Best song" is pretty subjective. It was certainly their biggest commercial hit.

[BuckyTuba]

pumpkins, only if you forgive them for the crap they just put out.

[samwise]

I like some of Soundgarden's stuff, and I was a fan of Audioslave(because of the Rage ties), but the Pumpkins have a special place in my heart. I have all of their discs and even bought that Zwan CD.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

The best Soundgarden song is "Circle of Power" off of Screaming Life. Well, maybe not their best....but their most entertaining.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I would have to rank Soundgarden a lot higher than the Pumpkins though. Entirely different bands, but Soundgarden has such a better collection.

 

Soundgarden's earlier things, before Badmotorfinger, are complex, twisting rock songs with a garage but professional feel. Entirely unique and boiler plate of what Seattle was doing in the late 1980's. Soundgarden was doing it the best.

 

Their use of different tunings and strange timings (they were almost never 4/4 or 3/4 timed) are very characteristic of their unique sound and idea. Coupled with the fact they were able to produce hit after hit with these odd time signatures is a feet in itself. How many groups can say this? I mean, Spoonman is in 29/4 time I believe!! (wqith some 4/4 in there too) Who does that?! Their biggest song Blackhole Sun was 6/4 time. This is amazing that they were able to break the radio 4/4, 3/4 time standard with these. Fell on Black Days is 6/4 as well.

 

This is a small sample of how they twisted up songs and made them very unique. There hasn't really been any other mainstream bands quite like Soundgarden.

 

And then their best album, Superunknown, a true master piece featuring countless potential singles and hits. Limo Wreck is a personal favorite of mine. 15/8 time for anyone interested.

 

The Pumpkins were good, especially on Siamese Dream. But they are and were more a typical rock band. What I really like from them is their implementation of the "Wall of Sound". They had rather harmless alternative rock songs that became huge sounding due to this production technique. Good band, but not on the same level as Soundgarden.

[Invader3K]

I never got into Soundgarden that much...just kind of found some of their songs annoying. I like the Pumpkins much better...though they got overplayed on the radio quite a bit during that era as well.

[homer]

I think both benefited from the 'grunge' love fest in the early 90's. Without Nirvana there is no Pearl Jam, without Pearl Jam there is no Soundgarden. Smashing Pumkins weren't from the Seattle scene but I think they were comparable early in their career until Billy started to experiment a little more. I prefer the Pumpkins, but I also own a couple of Soundgarden CDs. In fact, Birth Ritual from the Singles soundtrack is one of the most rockin' songs ever, IMO. But then again I feel the same way about Bodies from the Pumpkins. I guess I just dug the Pumpkins sound more than Soundgarden - through Mellon Collie anyway. After that they kind of mellowed a little too much for my taste.

[Brian the Automator]

I'll go with Soundgarden. Outshined and Rusty Cage still hold up, to me.

[RyDogg66]

Well put BB, I tend to feel the way you do about the two. I think they are very close as to "Who's the Band" but it is Soundgarden's influence in music and technique that set them apart.

[iluvlamp]

Since SP is my favorite band of all time I am biasedhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I really love Soundgarden though. "Jesus Christ Pose" and "Fresh Tendrils" are two of my all time favorite songs. Badmotofinger and Superunknown are two great, great albums.

 

To me, Gish is a masterpiece and I can't say Soundgarden has that (fine people disagree though.) I really think the Pumpkins established themselves as the anti-grunge and that's what I loved. I got so sick of the Seattle bands very fast. Nirvana and Alice and Chains not included. The Pumpkins were fresh with lots of rockers and lots of sweet songs. Plus, their sound was just magnificent as "Hummer" and "Soma" can attest.

 

I pick the Pumpkins but know that Soundgarden is badass.

[uecker9]

Anyone remember Smashing Pumpkins and a band called Loud Fast Rules(who changed their name and turned out to be pretty good!) playing O'Kays together for $3 about once a month? Ah, the good old days.

[iluvlamp]

Where was O'Kays? LFR turned out to be Soul Asylum, right?

[TheCrew07]

Soundgarden by far... I hate to say it, but in my early 20s when the Pumpkins were big, every single video they put out there irritated the hell out of me for some reason. Remember the irritational player hatred thread last year? Well if we had one for bands, Smashing Pumpkins would be #1 on my list.

[Chio151]

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I think both benefited from the 'grunge' love fest in the early 90's. Without Nirvana there is no Pearl Jam, without Pearl Jam there is no Soundgarden.

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Hey, I'm a huge Pearl Jam fan, but Soundgarden was probably more influential in that scene that Pearl Jam. To me, Soundgarden typifies the grunge scene more than either of the first two bands.

 

Nirvana became huge for touching on the teen angst.

 

Pearl Jam had staying power for branching across different spectrums and the star of Eddie.

 

But, to me, Alice in Chains and Soundgarden are pure Seattle rock.

 

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Smashing Pumpkins is a much different band to me, and falls more into the alternative rock movement than the grunge movement. The Pumpkins get max credit for changing the sound and being willing to experiment. They also tended to get me POed from time to time.

 

That said, I rank them ahead of Soundgarden in my time spent in my CD player metric.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

O'kays was a small club in Madison. Right by the Comeback Inn and Essen Haus.. What is it, Willy St.? I forget. But it's basically downtown.

 

It burned down a few years ago. It's a shame, that place was great.

 

When I lived in Madison we would go there and hang out. We were under 21 but could get service usually. There were often some decent bands there.

 

My most memorable show was a Mudhoney show. Place was packed and the band just ripped the house down. I couldn't get in (even though I bought a ticket there a few weeks in advance) so I came back through with some money under my ticket and bribed the door guy to let me in. Totally worth it.

 

Another great show was a Hot Water Music show there. The party afterwards at a guys house was cool.

 

Don Cab played there too. Decent show, but a small crowd. Summertime shows didn't always have all the people.

 

Madison had a few decent local bands that would play there on occasion.

 

And I can't forget the Captured By Robots show. That was amazingly hilarious.

 

That place ruled. Brings back memories of how I used to love going to rock shows.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

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Without Nirvana there is no Pearl Jam

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nonsense.

 

Yes, Nirvana was the one to break out commercially, but if you listen to anyone talk about early influences in Seattle music, they talk about bands like AIC, Soundgarden, Green River, Mudhoney and Mother Love Bone.

 

Pearl Jam guitarist Stone Gossard and bassist Jeff Ament both played with two of those bands - hence, are they not part of the influence?

 

Nirvana was a (good) band that got successful commercially first, but PJ's roots dig much further into that Seattle scene. They got a bit of a bad rub because Vedder was a newcomer from California, but PJs roots are much deeper in the Seattle scene than most.

 

So to say that "Without Nirvana there is no Pearl Jam" is a stretch.

 

That, and you don't have the staying power that a band like Pearl Jam has without being darned good. People gave up on them a bit after one or two of their late 90s records, but there have been very solid efforts since and their latest is a gem. Not to mention that they are one of the best live bands ever.

 

Doubt me? Go see a show.

 

Oh - and to answer the original question - as if it weren't obvious - Soundgarden.

[BrewCrewForever]

Im a fan of both bands. But I would give a slight edge to Soundgarden. Just like Cornell a little more as a vocalist.

[DSFastball55]

I like both as well, but the choice is clear to me: Smashing Pumpkins.

[homer]

RKFG,

I'm not discounting influence, I was talking commercial success. If Nirvana had never been signed to a big record deal and gotten mega huge, I wonder if the "Seattle sound" and "grunge" would have been as big a deal. Just my opinion....hardly nonsensical.

 

And I've seen PJ three times and the Pumpkins once.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

You're right - didn't mean to come off as condescending...

 

Nirvana's success helped blaze that path.

 

But some Nirvana-purists take the attitude of: without Nirvana all other Seattle rock of that era would be forgotten/irrelevant. And that's a stance I take issue with...

 

So when I see "Without Nirvana there is no Pearl Jam"; red flags go up...

[BraunsBoyfriend]

Watch the movie "Hype" if you want to know anything about Seattle music from the early 1980's until the mid 1990's.

[brettac1]

I don't know... I'm not a huge fan of either of these bands.

 

I guess I would call it a tie, and use lead singer bands post break-up to break the tie. In which case the Pumpkins win because of Zwan (and really because of Matt Sweeney being in that band). Audioslave was just terrible.

 

Plus I always liked "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" a little.

[jwaltz]

I have to go with Smashing Pumpkins here.

[uecker9]

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LFR turned out to be Soul Asylum, right?

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You are correct, suh.

O'kays was awesome, played there quite a few times back in the late 80's-early 90's and got to party with some cool bands. Tommy Stinsons band should have been called the snowblowers. I saw the Smashing Pumpkins at Smart Studios once, they were with Butch Vig working on some stuff for what would be Gish, I assume he produced that one. Never got to meet them tho. Amazing, some of the bands that rolled through Madison to record there.

 

I guess I'd give SP the nod because of that, but I like both as well.