Will Mat Gamel be brought up? Latest -- Don Money on Gamel, Gindl, McClendon

[madmax1]

Well you can't argue with the opinion of someone who has spent a long time in the major leagues and would know what it takes in regards to "carrying yourself" to be successful in an organization. I do know if Money told Gamel that he needed to improve in certain areas and how to act when he gets called up etc etc, Mat wouldn't ignore it. He'd do it. So I hope Money has shared his concerns with Mat and told him how to be successful and what he needs to do. Mat is a pretty low key guy. He hunts, fishes, and surfs. Unfortunately he has gotten a shaky reputation based on some fairly minor incidents. There is an old saying "if you're known as an early riser, you can sleep until noon". Reputations are hard to shake whether good or bad.

 

[DannoMac21]

I'm sorry madmax. I love everything you are saying, very good insight. But there is no way you're JUST a long time reader. You have to know Gamel or know someone who knows Gamel.

[Thurston Fluff]

If you don't want me to give you information about Mat that's fine.

 

I actually do want the information which is why I should have been more cordial.

 

So I hope Money has shared his concerns with Mat and told him how to be successful and what he needs to do.

 

If Money didn't something is really wrong. I can't imagine a situation where he wouldn't have. Which is why I think Mat must still not be getting something. As I said I still have high hopes for him and think he will be out starting first baseman next season. Perhaps that was Money making sure the lesson stuck.

 

Unfortunately he has gotten a shaky reputation based on some fairly minor incidents.

 

This is where we disagree. Showing up late is not minor in any profession. At our place we give everyone, including teenagers, the benefit of a doubt once. If they shown up late the second time they are replaced. If that sounds harsh it's because we need to trust people or our job is in jeopardy. We learned through hard lessons that tardiness is never a solitary issue. It's a sign of lack of dedication, pride or what ever you want to call it. That leads to a lack of trust. Judging from your posts understanding nuances such as what showing up on time means is something perhaps Mat hasn't understood that in the past. That doesn't mean he isn't a nice guy or anything like that mind you. Just that he didn't understand what was really required. He's in a profession that will give him a lot. Naturally a lot is expected of him for that. Not all of it should or will be spelled out for him. Some of it he has to get on his own. If not he will bounce around for a while make some money have a few memories then disappear. If he gets it he could be really good, build a legacy of his own and be remembered forever. I sincerely hope he gets it now. For him because I like to see all our guys succeed and for us because we need him to if wining the division is going to be more than a one year thing.

[madmax1]

Never meant to say that showing up late was a minor issue. If it came out that way sorry. What I do mean to say is that it happened twice 4 years ago. Can we ever get past this? Macha couldn't get past it, and let Mat know it every chance he got. Mat paid the price for immaturity but man it was four years ago! I think we're all reading way too much into this thing.

[logan82]

I think we're all reading way too much into this thing.

Into what? The fact he didn't get called up? Green got called up instead? We have Mark Kotsay on our team when Gamel is more than likely a better hitter. Unless the organization has something against him I see no reason Gamel shouldn't at least be up on the bench.

[And That]

What I do mean to say is that it happened twice 4 years ago. Can we ever get past this?

Well, all of Milwaukee is still judging Prince Fielder for going ape-crap on Guillermo Mota two years ago... wait.

[ilikewisco]

Thank you Max for some inside info. If he understands what they're asking of him, that's great. And its good to hear he and Money have a good relationship from the way you make it sound. I for one did not think that was the case with some of the reports that came out. I don't think its that big of a deal this year, but I do hope he can be a big part of the Brewers next, because they are gonna need him. I do hope to see Mat in Milwaukee next year and if he hits no one will care how he got there. I'm sure they ask a lot out of these players, so anyone that can make it has took their lumps throughout their time in the minors. Even if they're playing a game they love, treating it as a job I'm sure can get frustrating. But if they can persevere they are in a position financially and professionally most can only dream of. Good luck to Mat in winter ball and I hope to see him in Milwaukee next year.

[TracyThom]

I'm sorry madmax. I love everything you are saying, very good insight. But there is no way you're JUST a long time reader. You have to know Gamel or know someone who knows Gamel.

Not to speculate, but Mat's sister used to be a member here. When the Brevard team photo was released, I made a wisecrack about the roster being not so attractive. His sister jumped all over me for it.

 

 

EDIT: Found the thread: http://forum.brewerfan.net/search.php?keywords=13881/Your-2007-B-C-Manatees-Latest-Honors-for-Gamel-Tamargo#reply-13881

[PKBadger]

I think we're all reading way too much into this thing.

Into what? The fact he didn't get called up? Green got called up instead? We have Mark Kotsay on our team when Gamel is more than likely a better hitter. Unless the organization has something against him I see no reason Gamel shouldn't at least be up on the bench.

 

You're right, Kotsay's dead meat at this point. He can't hit major league pitching. I, for one, don't want to see him pinch-hit during the postseason.

 

(I tried to select the deepest shade of blue possible.)

[logan82]

I think we're all reading way too much into this thing.

Into what? The fact he didn't get called up? Green got called up instead? We have Mark Kotsay on our team when Gamel is more than likely a better hitter. Unless the organization has something against him I see no reason Gamel shouldn't at least be up on the bench.

 

You're right, Kotsay's dead meat at this point. He can't hit major league pitching. I, for one, don't want to see him pinch-hit during the postseason.

 

(I tried to select the deepest shade of blue possible.)

You are right. Kotsay had a good game so that proves that he belongs in the majors. In other news even blind squirrels sometimes find nuts.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm sorry madmax. I love everything you are saying, very good insight. But there is no way you're JUST a long time reader. You have to know Gamel or know someone who knows Gamel.

Not to speculate, but Mat's sister used to be a member here. When the Brevard team photo was released, I made a wisecrack about the roster being not so attractive. His sister jumped all over me for it.

 

 

EDIT: Found the thread: http://forum.brewerfan.net/search.php?keywords=13881/Your-2007-B-C-Manatees-Latest-Honors-for-Gamel-Tamargo#reply-13881

Haha, that's good stuff right there.

[ilikewisco]

Into what? The fact he didn't get called up? Green got called up instead? We have Mark Kotsay on our team when Gamel is more than likely a better hitter. Unless the organization has something against him I see no reason Gamel shouldn't at least be up on the bench.

 

You're right, Kotsay's dead meat at this point. He can't hit major league pitching. I, for one, don't want to see him pinch-hit during the postseason.

 

(I tried to select the deepest shade of blue possible.)

You are right. Kotsay had a good game so that proves that he belongs in the majors. In other news even blind squirrels sometimes find nuts.

For all the Kotsay bashing I think by now we can say he proved us wrong. He has played well this season and you definetely cannot say Gamel would have outproduced him this year. The only thing Gamel has going for him over Kotsay is power, and while it would be nice to have some on the bench, I wouldn't say its worth replacing Kotsay over.

 

For a

[logan82]

For all the Kotsay bashing I think by now we can say he proved us wrong.

 

.321/.371/.692 with crappy defense is not playing well. He is almost exactly what we expected. A really poor hitter and defender who should have been replaced at the first opportunity.

 

The only thing Gamel has going for him over Kotsay is power, and while it would be nice to have some on the bench, I wouldn't say its worth replacing Kotsay over.

 

OBP and power. He should have been replaced and I still hold a slim hope he is left off the playoff roster. He should have been left in Arizona.

 

I take the first part back after looking at his splits. He has been practically useless in the only role he should have been used for. His vs RHP splits on the year (.308/.365/.673). There is really no reason he should be on the team.

[jwill535]

All of the bashing of Kotsay is misplaced and downright misguided. You would have to go about 5-6 deep on the list before you get to Kotsay. For what he is being used for right now, he is above average. Look at other bench players in the league and you will see that he is well above average. As a starter no, but as a bench player, he has excelled expectations. To say anything different, you just have a ingrained bias that will never change, no matter the evidence proving otherwise. And to bring Kotsay up in a Gamel thread is pointless too, seeing that they play different positions.

[logan82]

For what he is being used for right now, he is above average. Look at other bench players in the league and you will see that he is well above average.

 

I cannot stress enough that I don't care how he compares to the average bench player or other players on other teams in his role. We have better options.

 

To say anything different, you just have a ingrained bias that will never change, no matter the evidence proving otherwise.

 

That is false. We should not accept a guy just because he is average if we have a better option. I am biased against having crappy players on ouyr team when we have better options. If we were not playoff bound I would be a little more willing to accept Kotsay to save some service time.

 

And to bring Kotsay up in a Gamel thread is pointless too, seeing that they play different positions.

 

Gamel isn't a left handed bench bat who could play terrible defense in a corner outfield position or back up 1B?

[ilikewisco]

Logan, you just assume Gamel will hit in the majors. He probably will, but spot start/pinch hit opportunities are all he's gonna get. And small sample or not, he did not do very good with it when he was up. If its a wash between he and Kotsay for that role (in the eyes of the orginization), I'm sure the edge goes to the veteran without any baggage.

 

Edit: I think you are giving way to much of the benefit to Gamel, and way to much of the doubt to Kotsay.

[ReverendBrewmeister]

The criticism of Kotsay's performance does seem a bit out of place in the discussion of whether Gamel should have been called up by August 31. Kotsay's stats below (as of SEP 18) are why he always had a roster spot wrapped up for the playoffs:

Hitting Stats as a RF
or PH[/b]

 Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+ as RF 29 107 99 7 30 8 0 1 7 1 0 8 7 .303 .355 .414 .769 41 2 0 0 0 3 1 .319 122 98 as PH 43 43 40 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 3 8 .275 .326 .300 .626 12 2 0 0 0 0 0 .344 82 107 

Hitting Stats vs.
Relief Pitchers (1st AB)
[/b]

 Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+ vs. RP 81 98 86 10 26 3 0 0 14 11 15 .302 .378 .337 .715 29 2 0 0 1 3 0 .361 109 108 

There is very little to criticize with Kotsay’s performance
as a 5^th outfielder and a pinch hitter.

The real question concerning Gamel and a call up in time for
the playoffs was this: Who brings more value to the team in a playoff situation,
Wilson as a 15^th position player, Gamel as a 15^th
position player, or Estrada as a 11^th pitcher? If someone says that Gamel is the best option
of the three, I would have a hard time disagreeing with that. But direct
comparison between Kotsay and Gamel just doesn’t seem to be very relevant to the
question of whether Gamel should have been on the roster by August 31.

[jjfanec]

If you want another point as to why Kotsay has the pinch-hitting spot wrapped up look at his numbers with runners on and RISP. OPS of .866 with runners on and OPS of .773 with RISP. He is batting over .300 in both situations.

 

Gamel actually was 3 for 9 in his limited at bats with runners on this year, but he was 0-17 with bases empty. Way too small of a sample size to get read into, but Kotsay has been solid with runners on base this year. So I guess you could say we should have someone else pinch hit when no one is on but that is it. People who still trash Kotsay are confusing to me. Just because you didnt like him at the beginning of the year doesnt diminish the fact that he has been average (not terrible) as a pinch-hitter and very product with runners on base.

[CheezWizHed]

Not to speculate, but Mat's sister used to be a member here. When the Brevard team photo was released, I made a wisecrack about the roster being not so attractive. His sister jumped all over me for it.

 

Sure, good looks is the 6th tool. Its called marketability. Who knows how many extra tickets and shirts the Brewers sold due to Scotty Po's or JJ Hardy's "marketability". http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[lexi881]

Interesting side note that Doug Melvin called Mat personally apologizing profusely for that article and said it should have never been released. Money was also supposed to apologize, but did not.

[lexi881]

Also Cheeze Wiz Head, I did previously frequent this site, but have not been on in a while. Just came back for a quick visit. Hope all is well with everyone on here.

[trwi7]

lexi881 wrote:

---

Interesting side note that Doug Melvin called Mat personally apologizing profusely for that article and said it should have never been released. Money was also supposed to apologize, but did not.

I'm happy about that. At most that should be said in private in the manager's office to a player if it should be said at all.

[reillymcshane]

Interesting side note that Doug Melvin called Mat personally apologizing profusely for that article and said it should have never been released. Money was also supposed to apologize, but did not.

Lexi881, how do you know this? Just curious. I think it's a good that Melvin called Gamel.

 

thanks.

[RockCoCougars]

I take it she is Mat's sister. I'm also glad that Melvin took the time to apologize for this nonsense.

[reillymcshane]

I take it she is Mat's sister. I'm also glad that Melvin took the time to apologize for this nonsense.

Thanks. I figured it was something like that. Appreciate the comments from everyone.

 

I think Mat's our answer at 1B next year (assuming Prince goes). I just hope the team gives him the chance, shows some patience. I think they'll be rewarded.