Will Mat Gamel be brought up? Latest -- Don Money on Gamel, Gindl, McClendon

[igor67]

Money is lucky he could play baseball, because he is a terrible manager of people. I'm a big believer in the school of honesty approach, but you have to balance that out in part. All Money can do is rag on guys. You got to be able to have the guys stick with you see they actually here it when you tell them the harsh reality.

[endaround]

You know that terrible August McClendon had which showed he shouldn't come up? 14Ks, 2BB in 16.2 innings of work.

[Never Outhustled]

The thing that bothers me is, Melvin knew all about Gamel's issues, so why didn't he deal him when his value was still high?

 

As for Money, like others have already said, the guy is clueless. The 1st wave of Brewers prospects was far more successful than the 2nd wave, maube that was, in part, because they had a far better AAA manager than Money putting the finishes touches on them. What was the name of our previous, very successful, AAA manager?

[RockCoCougars]

Really? Nobody is asking him to kiss up to his boss, but you felt the need to introduce that phrase here. It certainly seems like you think showing up for work on time and following coaching advice, you know, being a decent employee, is kissing up to the boss. If you don't, why even bring that up?

 

I disagree. First of all, you can be a decent employee without kissing up to the boss. Performing your job at and exceeding it's job description, can still result in a personality clash with the boss. Especially when the boss themselves is incompetent. Actually, many times it's those who do not perform up to standards who have a better relationship with the boss. Ever heard of the crony system? If you haven't seen this, you are either too young, have had very good bosses- or you are the boss.

 

As for the actual topic, Money seems like the type of guy who likes to pal around with his favorites. Obviously Gamel isn't in the clique. Money is pulling excuses from three years ago, but this says it all: "Money did praise Gamel's play and commitment at first base, a position he was hesitant to adopt the year before. ". He sounds like an idiot here: ""The big question is, can he play it every day? Well, he can play first, but can he hit enough?" Money said. "That's the big 'if.'" Don't throw his 40 some odd plate appearances over the past two years at me either. If Money was going to throw Gamel under the bus, he had better have some concrete examples from this year better than 'he came to camp overweight'. This is a joke: "Gamel finished the Triple-A season in a slump that Money attributed to trying for the two home runs he needed for his first 30-homer season. ", and this comes off as gloating ""Maybe it's an awakening that, 'Hey, I'm not the big boy on the block anymore,'"

 

At any rate, Money should have kept his mouth closed. Like I said, it was bush league to throw Gamel under the bus.

[Invader3K]

I don't know a lot about Money's managerial style. I just think it's amusing that he says some honest things about a player, some of which we already suspected, and now people are calling for his head.

Seems like certain people on this board always turn problems with certain players into issues with management, when maybe it's just the player who has the issues.

[jjkoestler]

I don't see how this article serves any of the parties involved (Brewers organization, Money, Gamel). Nothing is gained by speaking negatively about players in your organization. It decreases the trade value of Gamel and creates hostility between the players and management. We never should have read this and Don Money should never be allowed to talk to a journalist.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I don't know a lot about Money's managerial style. I just think it's amusing that he says some honest things about a player, some of which we already suspected, and now people are calling for his head.

Seems like certain people on this board always turn problems with certain players into issues with management, when maybe it's just the player who has the issues.

What does Don Money, or more importantly, the Brewers, gain from more or less bashing his young players accomplish? If there's things holding the players back from making the leap to the next level, that should most likely be a closed door discussion. I mean, great, Money is an 'honest' guy, but I can't see Schafer, Gamel, or Gindl being all that excited about playing for him next year after their public scolding. There's times when the generic comments that people tire of really are the best option. "We like (player X), but we think there's still some area for imrovement, and we feel it's best for his development to start next year in AAA"

[DougJones43]

I find it interesting that some of the same people who like Money and his "honesty" are also the ones who defend Roenicke for never saying anything negative about Yuniesky Betancourt, because you know, what is there to gain from publicly bashing one of your own players?

[logan82]

Punctuality, or lack thereof, is a sign of respect, or lack thereof. The fact that Gamel seems to have a problem in that regard speaks volumes to me.

Gamel was late twice, 3 years ago. That may speak volumes to you but doesn't really say much to me.

[yoshii8]

I don't understand why he feels the need to talk trash about these young players to the media, and why the Brewers allow him to do so. I feel like confidence plays such a huge role in becoming good at anything, and I'm guessing this won't help Gindl, Gamel or McClendon's confidence at all.

 

If it were up to me, I wouldn't want Don Money anywhere near the minor league system.

[CheezWizHed]

what is there to gain from publicly bashing one of your own players?

 

Motivation. Gamel has been at AAA for three years (and might be in line for a 4th). I'm pretty sure Money has exhausted all previous means of trying to get him to change. Perhaps this is one last ditch effort to get through.

 

I'll add that that in general, I don't care for this. But being a MLB or MiLB manager is much different than managing at any job any of us have. There are not reporters asking my boss about my progress every year. Money is asked by reporters about these guys. The white elephant in the room is Gamel not at the MLB level right now. So Money addresses it. From what I recall, he reviews his players once a year. Its not like he is complaining about them daily to the press (Hello, George Karl).

 

From what he has said, its been a problem for a couple years now. Big surprise? No, all of us picked up on something. Macha picked up on it. We knew about the reporting late issues in ST. RR has hinted at it. And it was painfully obvious when he wasn't called up in Sept.

 

If this was just a Money/Gamel personality issue, Gamel would have already been in the MLB level. Its not like he hasn't has the chances...

[JohnBriggs12]

Money doesn't sugarcoat or coddle guys. He also doesn't say one thing to a player and another to the media. How refreshing is that? He's been in professional baseball for 46 years. He knows what guys get away with in AAA won't work in the majors. I completely disagree with the comment that Nyjer Morgan wouldn't make it with Don Money. Morgan is goofy, but he's very smart between the lines and plays with his head in the game. Sometimes teaching the game requires some tough love. If Gindl is focusing too much on his numbers and not playing the game well, it's Money's job to point that out. As for Gamel, Money knows that the some of the traits Gamel exhibits won't go over well when he's struggling as everyone does in the majors from time to time. He's trying to help the guy.

[BrewersAA]

I put this in another post on the minor league side, but i feel like its pretty appropriate here. I met Gamel, Green, Gindl, and Schafer this year and Matt Gamels attitude and demeanor did not impress me, in fact it was disappointing, which i disclaimer-ed by saying that that doesn't mean he wont be a good baseball player. Something i left out of that post was that Gamel seemed to really care about what was happening in the stands, he pointed and waved to a girl at one point when he was in the on-deck circle (could have been family i guess, but didnt seem like it) when he should have been paying attention to the delivery and such. He was also verbally arguing with the guys next to me who were big hecklers, my girlfriend was also arguing with them, but Gamel should have the resolve to ignore them. Both Schafer and Green really seemed to have winning personalities and attitudes where Gindl lack a little and Gamel lacked a lot. I understand why they got the call and the other two didnt.

[jjfanec]

Even if you dont like that Don Money made the comments to the media you have to acknowledge that Mat has some professionalism issues. Whether it is showing up overweight, showing up late, or any of the other things Gamel has had issues. There are some people on this board who are so convinced Mat is a star in the making anytime something doesnt go the way it should for him they blame Melvin, the big league manager, or Money. Well maybe Mat isnt the innocent victim he is often portrayed as being. I am guessing not calling him up is hoped to be a wake up call.

 

I want Mat to succeed and I want him to be our first basemen next year, but I also want him to put all the work in that is expected. The quotes and other clippings I have read make me wonder if that is happening right now. The guy can hit, but lots of guys hit in AAA but struggle in the bigs because they dont put in the extra work. Only a few guys have the talent to just come up and hit. Look at Braun. The guy is a great hitter but he also has an amazing work ethic. That is what it takes to be great

[Patrick425]

I know a few guys who do the Brewers fantasy camp. One of them does it almost every year. My understanding is that over drinks and lunch, some of the former players as well as current Brewer staff can be fairly candid with their comments regarding current Brewer players and prospects. My friend told me that at one point a couple of years ago Gamel was referred to as "hard headed and dumb as a box of rocks" .

[DougJones43]

Motivation...exhausted all previous means of trying to get him to change. Perhaps this is one last ditch effort to get through.

That's all fine and dandy, but the exact same thing could be said about Betancourt. His approach at the plate is dreadful, and he (by many accounts) refuses to change and even got upset about being asked to take more pitches. His fundamentals are awful -- he doesn't even know how to bunt, and his fielding is beyond lazy.

 

If our organizational philosophy is going to be ripping on guys to "motivate" them, then why is somebody like Yuni off limits? Say what you want about Gamel, the production and the numbers have a least been there. With a guy like Betancourt, not only does his entire approach stink but the results stink too.

[monty57]

Your viewpoint sounds much like the kid in school whose job it is to study well and earn A's, but who chooses to screw around and not to work because he doesn't like the teacher, then blames the teacher for the crappy grades which to everyone else on the planet he clearly & deservedly earned because he didn't do what he actually had to do.

 

Or, he's the student who doesn't have to show up to class (or doesn't seem to listen while in class), but still gets good grades. A lot of teachers despise those students.

 

I don't know about Gamel's personality, but regardless of his "antics," he's always put up very good numbers in the minors, and seems to be our best bet for an inexpensive, talented young 1B for the 2012 Brewers.

[RockCoCougars]

Or, he's the student who doesn't have to show up to class (or doesn't seem to listen while in class), but still gets good grades. A lot of teachers despise those students.

 

Exactly. If he was some prima donna former first round pick who hadn't done squat in the minors, I'd have no problem dumping him. The guy has put up numbers everywhere he's been, and did fairly well in his only real chance in the majors over two years ago. From watching him then, he seemed to have the tools to be a solid hitter.

[DougJones43]

Or, he's the student who doesn't have to show up to class (or doesn't seem to listen while in class), but still gets good grades. A lot of teachers despise those students.

I think this is exactly the case. The old-school curmudgeon manager just doesn't like the guy -- because he doesn't do things the right way, in his opinion. He has offered no real evidence whatsoever though that Gamel's attitude or immaturity has made him an ineffective baseball player.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I can't wait to hear the post-trade interviews. Those should be interesting.

[captkirk16]

Everyone on here knows I'm a huge Gindl fan, love the kid. I think what's interesting about Money's interview and article is that he is old school and the school of thought is "you don't air dirty laundry". With that said, player's win 1 run games and managers lose them. The opinion he shared on his players (whether we agree or not) is his perception, which guess what? Perception is reality. Nashville had more 1 run games this year than any other team and lost most of them. There is enough culpability to pass around, however, the big club is on a roll, has a chance to win it all and that should be the focus. These kids are gonna be fine because what life teaches us is to work hard everyday and good things will happen. There are no shortcuts to success.

[Thurston Fluff]

He got hurt in Spring Training in back to back years. That is not necessarily an indication of being out of shape.

 

Two years ago he got hurt early in spring training by not warming up properly. How is that anyone's fault but his?

 

Maybe he needs more than to be told what to do. Seeing as how Gindl is also having problems I think it may be a personality thing between Gamel and Money.

 

What does he need more then being told what to do? Players learn how to throw a ball to a cutoff man in little league. From what I read he didn't appear ot be bashing Gindl. He said Gindl is young and needs to work on stuff that doesn't show up in the stats but will make him a better player before he's ready for a promotion. He also said he needs to wait his turn and not worry about things out of his control. I hear that said all the time by players and coaches all the time. Focus on what you can control and ignore everything else. Seems like good advice to me.

 

If he is truly a discipline problem, showing up late, etc., be forthright with him and fine/suspend him if necessary.

 

Why do you assume this was the only thing he tried with him? I don't even know if fines and suspensions for showing up late or not listening to the coaches is allowed. Quite frankly if that is necessary I don't think they are the type of player that succeeds. This isn't about being a jerk it's about not doing what is necessary to become a better more reliable player.

 

If our organizational philosophy is going to be ripping on guys to "motivate" them, then why is somebody like Yuni off limits?

 

Because he's not part of our long term plans. What do you think will change in 5 months that would make doing so worthwhile? Gamel on the other hand is being viewed as the first baseman of the future here. There is a lot more invested in getting his professionalism up to snuff. The other small problem with that comparison is Yuni hasn't been rumored to have an attitude, show up late, or fail to warm up properly before swinging the bat and hurting himself. His problem is he just isn't very good.

[TooLiveBrew]

What was the name of our previous, very successful, AAA manager?

 

Frank Kremblas. Got a 'call up' as a bench coach at one point iirc.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Because he's not part of our long term plans. What do you think will change in 5 months that would make doing so worthwhile? Gamel on the other hand is being viewed as the first baseman of the future here. There is a lot more invested in getting his professionalism up to snuff. The other small problem with that comparison is Yuni hasn't been rumored to have an attitude, show up late, or fail to warm up properly before swinging the bat and hurting himself. His problem is he just isn't very good.

I've heard more than a few stories that hitting coaches, including Sveum this season, have tried to work with Yuni to get him to change his approach at the plate, work the count, take pitches, etc, etc, etc, and on at least few occassions, I've read that he's really bristled at such instruction. I'd describe that as an attitude problem.

 

And I don't care if Yuni isn't part of the long term solution, he's part of THIS year's team, that's trying to make a playoff run, and along with McGehee, he's doing a pretty darn good job of making it more difficult than it ought to be.

[PKBadger]

To paraphrase Dick Vermeil, maybe it's time for Gamel to take the diapers off and go to work.