Will Mat Gamel be brought up? Latest -- Don Money on Gamel, Gindl, McClendon

[logan82]

Where was it ever stated Gamel showed up out of shape? He got hurt in Spring Training in back to back years. That is not necessarily an indication of being out of shape. It has been repeatedly stated that there is nowhere for him to play on the current team other than the bench so it made a lot of sense for him to stay in the minors and work at 1B most of the year. He has just cone up through the system at a bad time for corner spots.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Quote from the article. "Then, in 2011, with a chance to impress new Brewers manager Ron Roenicke, Money says Gamel reported 25-30 pounds overweight." At 25-30 lbs. overweight I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the shape they wanted him to be in.

[jwill535]

It pretty refreshing to see that they have a no non sense guy as essentially the gate keeper at AAA. It also confirms the feeling most of us had that Gamel doesnt have the maturity yet and also in a sense vindicates Macha for the "mistreatment" that others vilified Macha with.

 

I would really like to know what he would have said to Lawrie had he made it to AAA. Along those lines, I would love to know how he feels about Harper.

[logan82]

Why would Gamel listen to Money at this point? The only things that seem obvious to me from this article is that Money and Gamel don't get along and some players have obviously started to tune him out.

[Funketown]

Who cares if Gamel is a fat, lazy slob so long as he can hit? I'd rather have Lawrie downing 40's on the field than McGehee watching another 3rd strike call.

[jwill535]

Why would Gamel listen to Money at this point? The only things that seem obvious to me from this article is that Money and Gamel don't get along and some players have obviously started to tune him out.

You can also take away that there are players on that team that feel entitled and are immature. Its not Don's job to make friends, its his job to prepare them for the majors. The article appears to be a "can lead a horse to water..." type situation.

[logan82]

It is his job to make them better players. I get the feeling that Money is a my way or the highway guy and isn't much of a teacher.

[bigredrobbo]

It is his job to make them better players. I get the feeling that Money is a my way or the highway guy and isn't much of a teacher.

Hmm, that's strange because I get the feeling that Gamel isn't much of a learner. He's always struck me as a Roger Dorn type. All talent, no social skills.

[logan82]

How many defensive guys have come up under Money's watch? I know most are not good to start but the only one who showed any improvement was Weeks and that wasn't until he was in the majors. Are we to say that Braun, Hart and Fielder are not much of learners either? I think at this point Gamel's only problem is being stuck with Money for 4 years. I think it is obvious they don't get along and Gamel may need a different coach.

[razzzorsharp]

I think having a guy like Money at AAA works. These guys have been taught for years and years and now they are in a spot when they have to get over the hump, they could use a guy to exploit their weaknesses to try and make them better. This type of manager wouldn't work in A ball however.

[MNBrew]

Logan, are you saying you think it's Don Money's fault that Gamel's not in the bigs? It's been rather obvious over the past 3-4 years that Gamel can hit a ton, but also that he's stubborn and immature.

 

Whether he gets along with Don Money or not is completely immaterial. Gamel's been told what he needs to do to get to the bigs and he's not doing enough of it. Mat Gamel controls his actions & attitudes, not anyone else, and only Gamel is responsible for himself and his choices.

 

Your point everywhere on page 2 of this thread come across as that it must be Don Money's fault. Your viewpoint sounds much like the kid in school whose job it is to study well and earn A's, but who chooses to screw around and not to work because he doesn't like the teacher, then blames the teacher for the crappy grades which to everyone else on the planet he clearly & deservedly earned because he didn't do what he actually had to do.

[FVBrewerFan]

If Money had his way Plush would still be in Nashville today if he came up through the Brewers system.

[Mass Haas]

Cory Provus with Money

and (Previously linked) Nashville audio

[joepepsi]

Money sounds like an [expletive deleted] to me. Gamel has done everything asked of him. let's move on. Fire Money and get somebody on board with the rest of the organization.

 

 

(edit: language --1992)

[logan82]

Logan, are you saying you think it's Don Money's fault that Gamel's not in the bigs?

Not Money's fault. There really hasn't been a good opportunity for him to play outside of a brief chance in 2009. He has had to toil in the minors for the majority of 3 separate seasons even though in many organizations he would have already been an everyday player in the majors. I am sure Gamel is sick of Money by now though.

 

It's been rather obvious over the past 3-4 years that Gamel can hit a ton, but also that he's stubborn and immature.

I am not sure it is immaturity. He just has a different personality. I agree Gamel can hit. That is the really odd part of Money's comments...

 

"The big question is, can he play it every day? Well, he can play first,

but can he hit enough?" Money said. "That's the big 'if.'"

Whether he gets along with Don Money or not is completely immaterial.

How much are you going to listen to a guy you don't like? It has been 4 years. I think a different approach needs to be taken.

 

 

Gamel's been told what he needs to do to get to the bigs and he's not

doing enough of it.

or he hasn't had or been given much of an opportunity. Maybe he needs more than to be told what to do. Seeing as how Gindl is also having problems I think it may be a personality thing between Gamel and Money.

 

Your viewpoint sounds much like the kid in school whose job it is to

study well and earn A's, but who chooses to screw around and not to work

because he doesn't like the teacher, then blames the teacher for the

crappy grades which to everyone else on the planet he clearly &

deservedly earned because he didn't do what he actually had to do.

That doesn't really apply. Gamel has done the work and has had good results. He hit very well this year and by even Money's account fielded well at 1B yet all he has to show for it is a long vacation.

 

 

Cory Provus with Money

and (Previously linked) Nashville audio

In the interview Money even said Gamel did well both offensively and defensively. I think there is just a personality clash. He is not a Money guy.

 

I just think Gamel needs to be put in a spot and told he will get the start no matter how well he plays. We did it with YunE all year and Gamel has a much higher upside.

[kramnoj]

Part of being mature is working with people that have different styles and being able to adapt.

 

As far as Gamel doing everything he has been asked to do, that isn't supported by the number of errors he has had at 3B. He has been given advice on how to adjust and failed to make significant improvement, either through his own work or by listening to his coaches. Also, being late enough times that Gamel's teammates decided to move his locker outside isn't evidence of a strong work ethic or a sign of maturity.

[trwi7]

kramnoj wrote:

---

As far as Gamel doing everything he has been asked to do, that isn't supported by the number of errors he has had at 3B. He has been given advice on how to adjust and failed to make significant improvement, either through his own work or by listening to his coaches. Also, being late enough times that Gamel's teammates decided to move his locker outside isn't evidence of a strong work ethic or a sign of maturity.

Or maybe he just isn't a good 3rd baseman, like Braun isn't. Doesn't mean Braun didn't do what was asked of him, just means that he can't play the position.

[bigredrobbo]

Punctuality, or lack thereof, is a sign of respect, or lack thereof. The fact that Gamel seems to have a problem in that regard speaks volumes to me. I guess as a perennial benchwarmer in pretty much everything I ever played, I came to resent the "talented" guys who think that talent affords them the right to be primadonnas. I'm not saying hustle trumps talent but when you have guys on the Brewers who have both, you notice the Gamels of this world more, I guess.

[RockCoCougars]

Gamel needs to get a shot at the big league level. He's done more than enough to prove himself in the minors. This is looking like politics, pure and simple- In this case Money is just the company man acting as the mouthpiece. This goes on in my place of employment, and probably nearly every other workplace...So what if he doesn't kiss up to his manager or even pal around with his teammates? He may be the biggest tool in the world, but as far as I know he's never failed a drug test or been arrested. They let Escobar stink the joint up for a full year without a benching- and by many accounts, he is a despicable human being. Google 'Escobar wife' to find out more if you don't know the story already.

[kramnoj]

Or maybe he just isn't a good 3rd baseman, like Braun isn't.

 

Maybe. But Money specifically talked about how he tried to help Gamel with his throwing motion and Gamel didn't act on the coaching.

 

Gamel needs to get a shot at the big league level. He's done more than enough to prove himself in the minors. This is looking like politics, pure and simple

 

He was given a shot at being a DH this year. It is of course a small sample, but in his major league career he has not performed well in the PH and DH roles. Those were the only opportunities that he was going to get for the rest of the year so it wouldn't make much sense to call him up if he wasn't going to be given a chance to contribute.

 

It has nothing to do with politics. If that was the case, Gamel wouldn't have been called up to be a DH this year. I think people who are assuming malice are probably projecting their own experience onto Gamel here.

[PKBadger]

Also, being late enough times that Gamel's teammates decided to move his locker outside isn't evidence of a strong work ethic or a sign of maturity.

This x 1000.

[DougJones43]

If it comes down to having somebody on the team who...

 

1) Is somewhat immature, but produces Gamel's Major League Equivalencies

or

2) Is very mature, but produces Casey McGehee or Mark Kotsay type numbers

 

...I'll take option #1 every time.

[RockCoCougars]

It has nothing to do with politics. If that was the case, Gamel wouldn't have been called up to be a DH this year. I think people who are assuming malice are probably projecting their own experience onto Gamel here.

 

Absolutely not. I just don't like the organization's passive-aggressive manner in which they deal with Gamel. If he is truly a discipline problem, showing up late, etc., be forthright with him and fine/suspend him if necessary. Don't play mind games after the season he had- and then throw him under the bus in the press with pithy comments. That's bush league. It's obvious that there is no love lost between him and Money- obviously those two have been together for too long.

[kramnoj]

Absolutely not.

 

Really? Nobody is asking him to kiss up to his boss, but you felt the need to introduce that phrase here. It certainly seems like you think showing up for work on time and following coaching advice, you know, being a decent employee, is kissing up to the boss. If you don't, why even bring that up?

If it comes down to having somebody on the team who...

 

1) Is somewhat immature, but produces Gamel's Major League Equivalencies

or

2) Is very mature, but produces Casey McGehee or Mark Kotsay type numbers

 

...I'll take option #1 every time.

 

I don't think it's a given that Gamel would outperform Casey at 3B given how bad Mat has been defensively. And Gamel's stats as a hitter when he isn't playing the field don't give me confidence that he would perform well in the Kotsay role.

[danzig6767]

Money sounds like an [expletive deleted] to me. Gamel has done everything asked of him. let's move on. Fire Money and get somebody on board with the rest of the organization.

I can easily see why Gamel is frustrated by being stuck in the minors for so long without a shot to prove himself in the majors beyond a few short stints, but for any organization to come to a conclusion that a minor league manager is to abrasive or has poor skills at working with players from a personality aspect, it's never going to be done based on how a single player and that manager gets along or else organizations would be firing minor league managers left and right.

 

Given none of us have played for Don Money and the vast majority here don't know other players personally who have played for Money to get their views on him, pretty much everyone here is just seem very uninformed about how he is with players as a general rule, not just how he and Gamel are.

 

As for getting on board with the rest of the organization, think it's pretty safe to assume though that if Money consistently had problems with getting along with the players he's given to manage instead of maybe some isolated instances, the organization would have moved on and let Money go.