2011-09-01 Cardinals (Dickson) at Brewers (Gallardo) - [Brewers lose, 8-4]

[Raw Biz]

I really hope we see Green this inning.

[FVBrewerFan]

So let me get this straight - unless our players play well, we have no chance in the playoffs against the Phillies? Doesn't that describe ANY team playing ANY sport, ever?

I'm pretty sure...no wait...I DID single out several players need to be hot. And no, that doesn't describe any team. Plenty of teams have won the World Series without their best hitters performing at a high level. Which goes back to my point. The brewers can not beat the Phillies or Yankees...or may be even the Braves if the big boys aren't huge contributors.

[Bernman23]

That guy cannot take a pitch to save his life. It's like a psychological disorder he has. Roenicke should give him the sign in situations like those that if he swings he'll not play tomorrow.

[pretendastronaut]

Ueck is killing me here. Every time there's contact he get excited like it's about to do some damage, and then it's like a foul ball.

[pretendastronaut]

That guy cannot take a pitch to save his life. It's like a psychological disorder he has. Roenicke should give him the sign in situations like those that if he swings he'll not play tomorrow.

 

C'mon, let's be realistic here.

 

Everyone knows Yuni will just miss the sign.

 

*rimshot*

[Raw Biz]

And obviously Kotsay is on deck. Terrible.

[bucksman4]

And obviously Kotsay is on deck. Terrible.

It's obvious he's going to stick with his veterans. The only way he plays the likes of Green are for Melvin to get rid of McGehee/Kotsay/Counsell this off-season. He will always defer to the guys that got him to this point so he doesn't lose the clubhouse.

[markedman5]

on the good news front...at least Ax and KROD will be well rested going into Houston...............

[Bernman23]

And obviously Kotsay is on deck. Terrible.

It's obvious he's going to stick with his veterans. The only way he plays the likes of Green are for Melvin to get rid of McGehee/Kotsay/Counsell this off-season. He will always defer to the guys that got him to this point so he doesn't lose the clubhouse.

If I was a young player, or even veteran, he'd lose me if he were biased and didn't fix the problems that existed within the team.

[Raw Biz]

And obviously Kotsay is on deck. Terrible.

It's obvious he's going to stick with his veterans. The only way he plays the likes of Green are for Melvin to get rid of McGehee/Kotsay/Counsell this off-season. He will always defer to the guys that got him to this point so he doesn't lose the clubhouse.

How is giving the young guys a couple of ABs going to lose the clubhouse? People keep saying this like its a fact that letting Green get some PT is going to result in a riot from the players or something. I don't get it.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I am not going to respond to the veteran vs. rookie debate. I am just going to say that we better buckle-up because this last month of the season is going to be a wild ride.

[brewmann04]

i agree this sweep should make the brewers realize that this will not be a cake walk.The brewers need to get their act back against Houston and hope the reds can win a game or too this weekend. This will not be a cakewalk like some thought.

[bucksman4]

And obviously Kotsay is on deck. Terrible.

It's obvious he's going to stick with his veterans. The only way he plays the likes of Green are for Melvin to get rid of McGehee/Kotsay/Counsell this off-season. He will always defer to the guys that got him to this point so he doesn't lose the clubhouse.

How is giving the young guys a couple of ABs going to lose the clubhouse? People keep saying this like its a fact that letting Green get some PT is going to result in a riot from the players or something. I don't get it.

It's because people feel McGehee's psyche is fragile and even spot starts for Green would "screw" with his mind and he would pout. I think RR is fearful of this ruining the morale of the team. Didn't Corey Hart recently stick up for McGehee in the JS saying something like people are calling for Green to come up from AAA but "AAA is much different from big league pitching." This seems like a particularly brotherly clubhouse.

[pitchleague]

beautiful...........Could have buried the Cards in this series and instead they will leave with real hope.

yeah, but see? We've learned from St. Louis about how to be classy. We gave another team some hope. Instead of wiping them completely out of the race--unclassy--we let them live for a little bit longer--classy.

[pebadger]

Players (and people) like regularity. They usually don't like arbitrary changes to the routine. As much as people here like to rip on some players, those guys usually aren't the reason the Brewers win when they win and they aren't the reason the Brewers lose when they lose. They show up, are good teammates, accept their roles and do what they can to help the team given their limitations. Most people can accept those around them in their own lives who do those things, so long as they aren't causing other problems.

 

It works the same way in a clubhouse. As much as some like to mercilessly hammer Yuni B, for example, I 'd bet a fair amount that he simply isn't viewed that same way in the clubhouse. Guys know he isn't great, but he puts in an honest effort and he's one of the guys. The second you start just changing things to change things, and create the appearance of scapegoating somebody, especially when that change isn't likely to make any real difference on the field, some people tend to be turned off. The Brewers don't have any saviors waiting in the wings. There is no shot of nitro for this engine. They have 81 wins right now playing in one of the smallest markets in baseball. This doesn't mean you don't try to get better, but you have to look at whether making incremental changes at this point makes any sense at all.

[young guns]

The fact that Green did not get an opportunity to hit today is sickening. Hey look, we made it a save situation.

[Raw Biz]

It's obvious he's going to stick with his veterans. The only way he plays the likes of Green are for Melvin to get rid of McGehee/Kotsay/Counsell this off-season. He will always defer to the guys that got him to this point so he doesn't lose the clubhouse.

How is giving the young guys a couple of ABs going to lose the clubhouse? People keep saying this like its a fact that letting Green get some PT is going to result in a riot from the players or something. I don't get it.

It's because people feel McGehee's psyche is fragile and even spot starts for Green would "screw" with his mind and he would pout. I think RR is fearful of this ruining the morale of the team. Didn't Corey Hart recently stick up for McGehee in the JS saying something like people are calling for Green to come up from AAA but "AAA is much different from big league pitching." This seems like a particularly brotherly clubhouse.

If that truly was the case, I'd cut him. If he could't handle someone taking a start from him once a week when he's not very good to begin with, I wouldn't want anything to do with him. But I don't think that's the case. I think Roenicke is just a grumpy old man who doesn't like rookies (kind of like Macha). That's only half-blue because he doesn't actually seem grumpy.

[Bernman23]

And a great approach by Prince to finish the game off.....

[bucksman4]

The fact that Green did not get an opportunity to hit today is sickening. Hey look, we made it a save situation.

It shows you two things:

1) he doesn't like rookies (his PT for Gamel when he was up earlier this year proved it as well)

2) he's sticking with his veteran "guys" no matter what -- production be damned, he's playing them

[Raw Biz]

Players (and people) like regularity. They usually don't like arbitrary changes to the routine. As much as people here like to rip on some players, those guys usually aren't the reason the Brewers win when they win and they aren't the reason the Brewers lose when they lose. They show up, are good teammates, accept their roles and do what they can to help the team given their limitations. Most people can accept those around them in their own lives who do those things, so long as they aren't causing other problems.

 

It works the same way in a clubhouse. As much as some like to mercilessly hammer Yuni B, for example, I 'd bet a fair amount that he simply isn't viewed that same way in the clubhouse. Guys know he isn't great, but he puts in an honest effort and he's one of the guys. The second you start just changing things to change things, and create the appearance of scapegoating somebody, especially when that change isn't likely to make any real difference on the field, some people tend to be turned off. The Brewers don't have any saviors waiting in the wings. There is no shot of nitro for this engine. They have 81 wins right now playing in one of the smallest markets in baseball. This doesn't mean you don't try to get better, but you have to look at whether making incremental changes at this point makes any sense at all.

For the last time, one start a week or even a PH appearance is not too much to ask! Couldn't you make the same argument that not playing the guys on the bench would upset them, which they then could upset the clubhouse?

[markedman5]

Ok....series over......go get 2 of 3 in Houston and get some mojo back.

 

Hopefully the Cards have a bit of a letdown against the Reds.

[Bernman23]

Players (and people) like regularity. They usually don't like arbitrary changes to the routine. As much as people here like to rip on some players, those guys usually aren't the reason the Brewers win when they win and they aren't the reason the Brewers lose when they lose. They show up, are good teammates, accept their roles and do what they can to help the team given their limitations. Most people can accept those around them in their own lives who do those things, so long as they aren't causing other problems.

 

It works the same way in a clubhouse. As much as some like to mercilessly hammer Yuni B, for example, I 'd bet a fair amount that he simply isn't viewed that same way in the clubhouse. Guys know he isn't great, but he puts in an honest effort and he's one of the guys. The second you start just changing things to change things, and create the appearance of scapegoating somebody, especially when that change isn't likely to make any real difference on the field, some people tend to be turned off. The Brewers don't have any saviors waiting in the wings. There is no shot of nitro for this engine. They have 81 wins right now playing in one of the smallest markets in baseball. This doesn't mean you don't try to get better, but you have to look at whether making incremental changes at this point makes any sense at all.

You act like under-performing veterans on teams in a playoff race haven't been supplanted late in the season with positive results numerous times. It doesn't seem to be destroying the D-Backs' chemistry right now.

 

And I'd hardly classify replacing a .650 hitter who is a bad baserunner and defender with an .830 one (proj.) whose decent in the other areas, an incremental change.

 

By the way, have you ever thought about the ramifications long term from alienating your young players and destroying their confidence?

[pebadger]

I'm not saying that's the only way to handle things, but it's the way things are being handled. Yes, maybe the young guys get upset if they're not playing. But then they are the ones (in this worldview) with the problem in that they aren't accepting their roles. The other guys, who have been around longer, have shown no problem (that we know of) accepting their roles. It very well could be that maybe worrying about whether they would mope might be the reason the young guys don't come up sooner. There are only so many spots on the team and only so many ABs to go around. The Brewers decided at some point in the season that the guys they have are their guys. Right or wrong, they didn't feel that anybody was forcing their way into the lineup or forcing their way out of the lineup. It seems like they also didn't want to put themselves into the position of creating a controversy at a position. If you bring in Green earlier, but don't commit to him and ship out Casey, you create tension and controversy. With things going as well as they have, I think they figured that was the real enemy.

[Baldkin]

"But we're playing the Cardinals, and I think, as a group, the guys, they want their guys in there,"

-RRR on Green not starting today.

[pitchleague]

I would guess we'll get a Green start in Houston, because the Astros are teh suck. Oh, and Roenicke and staff probably wanted first starts to be on the road rather than under the pressure cap of Miller Park. It worked for Lawrie and the Jays.

 

Okay, I'm reaching. . . .