Question about Yuni's bunt: How do baseball's rules apply?

[young guns]

Since the IGT was locked, I wasn't sure where to post this, and sorry if the "discussion" from it continues here, this isn't meant for that. Since it hit his hand shouldn't it have been a dead ball or

 

a hbp, to me it looked like he was trying to pull the bat back? I'm guessing the ump was blocked from it and just assumed it hit the bat since the ball went fair, or am I missing something about the hand being part of the bat since it was up by the barrel?

[endaround]

Once you offer the HBP becomes invalid and the hand become part of the bat I believe.

[dlk9s]

I don't think he was trying to pull the bat back, anyway. But yeah, it's the batter's problem if his fingers are in the way while trying to bunt.

[1992casey]

Because this question is about the application of baseball's rules, its scope extends beyond just one game. This forum is an appropriate place to put it. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[monty57]

If you're dumb enough to wrap your entire hand around the barrel of the bat, you shouldn't be rewarded for it. I guess "you don't bunt your way off the island" should be right up there with "you don't walk your way off the island." That was one of the worst attempts at a sac bunt I've seen.

[DuWayne Steurer]

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that on a bunt attempt, the hand is part of the bat. I know a lot of players aren't called upon to bunt very often, but it's still mind boggling how many of these guys don't know how to even hold the bat for a bunt attempt.

[1992casey]

We have the Yuni topic and the Roenicke topic to discuss the bunt strategy and Yuni's attempt to pull it off. Let's use those so this thread can be reserved for discussion of the baseball rule involved. I've hidden a couple of posts that didn't touch on the application of the rule.

 

Searching for "baseball rules hand part of bat" (no quotes) strongly suggests that the hand is not part of the bat. Maybe the pitch should have been called a strike.

[chadomac]

If you're dumb enough to wrap your entire hand around the barrel of the bat, you shouldn't be rewarded for it.

 

 

Yeah, I see this a lot and don't understand it. Your hand should be behind the bat as much as possible when you bunt, shouldn't it? I'm surprised people don't break their fingers more often doing it the way Yuni, Greinke, and Morgan do it.

[reillymcshane]

I've always understood that if you are going after a pitch on a bunt, the hand becomes part of the bat. That's what both announcers said last night as well (for what it's worth). However, looking at a few things, it actually sounds like it might have been a strike. A couple of sites said when a player swinging at a pitch (or attempting to bunt) gets hit in the hands, it's a strike (not a foul). If the player is trying to get out of the way of the pitch, it's a HBP.

 

I wonder if the fact that ball went in play made a difference. Interesting to find the answer on this one.

 

PS - the bunt was absolutely pathetic. Most of my kids I coach in 6th grade have better form. The first thing we teach them is how to hold the bat properly. Sad. Oh well, that's another thread.

[joepepsi]

I've always understood that if you are going after a pitch on a bunt, the hand becomes part of the bat.

The corrollary is if your name is Derek Jeter the bat becomes part of the hand when not bunting, and a good acting job will get you a base.

 

Didn't Manny Parra break a finger trying to bunt his season with the team?

[patrickgpe]

no that was morgan.

[RockCoCougars]

I agree with those who say that the hand is part of the bat if you offer at the pitch.

[chadomac]

Yep, Parra did it too. A few seasons ago.

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/s...07-08-31-130407553_x.htm

[topper09er]

The hand is part of the bat ONLY if you are offering at a pitch, which may be a bunt attempt or a swing/check swing. If you are hit in the hand without a swing you get first base.

[bani1717]

...and your manager will order that Braun gets drilled in the next inning

[joepepsi]

Yep, Parra did it too. A few seasons ago.

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/s...07-08-31-130407553_x.htm

Yes, that's what I meant, but my sentence structure was poor in my previous post.

[MadScientist]

Reading 6.08b

APPROVED RULING: When the batter is touched by a pitched ball which does

not entitle him to first base, the ball is dead and no runner may advance.

 

It is pretty clear that should have been called a strike and not treated as a bunt. Roenicke should have argued that one, and then have Yuni swing fully on the next pitch.

[RightFieldCoder]

"Hands are a part of the bat" is a myth. Even the umps say so. MadScientist is right, RRR should have argued for just a strike, dead ball, and a continuation of the at bat.

But it's just like a "check swing". There is no rule that says there is a check swing. Only whether the batter swung or not. So all of the "bat crossed the plate", "wrists broke", etc are just wrong. But everyone (including the umps and players) act like it's in the rules.

[1992casey]

Good work, Robin19. I'll quote the explanation from the umpire Jerry Layne.

I know that if a batter swings and misses a pitch and it hits him, it is a dead ball strike. However, what happens if he swings at the pitch and it hits his hand? Is his hand considered an extension of the bat and the ball is live, or is it a dead ball strike because it hit the body?

Thanks,

-- T. Albertina

 

Layne: Well, let me ask you a question. If he puts a bat in his hand, and he drops it, is his hand going to drop with the bat or his hand going to stick to his body? So is his hand part of the bat? So, it's kind of common sense. If he gets hit in the hands, that's his body, if he gets hit in his bat, that's his bat. And if he swings, he doesn't go to first base when he gets hit.

[RockCoCougars]

I would guess that it's pretty rare when the ball catches no bat. Does the ball become dead immediately after hitting skin or if it gets part of a finger and part of the bat, is it live?

[1992casey]

That sounds like a foul ball to me. That would make it dead.

[young guns]

So it looks like a call went infavor of the cards, what will Larussa think of that? To me it did look like he was bringing the bat back, but whether it was to get out of the way or just deaden the ball, I'm not sure. Imagine the blow up if it had been ruled a HBP. That would have been fun to see. Which of you forgot to pay the ump last night?

[RightFieldCoder]

I would guess that it's pretty rare when the ball catches no bat. Does the ball become dead immediately after hitting skin or if it gets part of a finger and part of the bat, is it live?

It is a judgement call by the ump on which it hit first. It would be a dead ball either way.

If it hits the finger first, the ball is immediately ruled dead and a strike is issued. It doesn't matter what the ball does after that (hit the bat, go into fair territory, pop up that is caught, etc). This is a strikeout if there were already two strikes.

If it hits the bat and then the finger, it is just like any other batted ball that hits the batter. If he was still in the box and it was unintentional, it is immediately called a dead foul ball. This is not a strikeout if there were already two strikes, unless it was during a bunt attempt.