Sopranos (spoilers)

[PKBadger]

First off, the theory that the guy in the restaurant was Nikky Leotardo has been debunked.

 

 

www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-06092007-1360360.html

 

 

Secondly, just to respond to TheCrew07 - there was an episode just a few weeks ago where Silvio was having dinner with a New York guy and 2 hitmen walked in and shot him.....Silvio crawls away with the 2 goomahs. So a restaurant hit is definitely within the realm of possibility.

[TheCrew07]

I guess the way the show was written sure, but the very back of restraunt? I just don't see it is all.

[BrewCrewForever]

Good point kegstand. Also nice find on that article about the mystery man. I still believe now Tony died thus the show went black.

[FVBrewerFan]

I honestly believe the ending can be chalked up to lazy producing. There was nothing ground breaking about the mystery ending. It's just Chase's way of saying "there are several fantastic ways to end...but it's easier to leave everything up in the air."

 

I didn't lose sleep over it, but if you watch a show for years you expect conclusion. It's like playing the entire baseball season with no playoffs. And the artsy fartsy crowd can rejoice "how brilliant and clever...I wonder who would have won the World Series.?!?"

[MKE alz]

I'm just happy it's over, the show hasn't been great since season 3 and has steadily gotten worse. I only kept watching because I thought they might bring it around.

 

Though I must say the final scene is a perfect metaphor for the show as a whole - It feels like it's building to something forever. That something never happens and the questions you want answered never get answered (what's up with the shady guy in the john, why is meadow the worst parker ever?), and in the end it's way longer than it needed to be and very disappointing.

 

As for the post that took the bit from wikipedia about Tony dying - It's interesting, but I don't know how someone can claim the show is from Tony's point of view. Some examples against:

- the episode about the FBI putting a plant in Tony's basement.

- the epsode about Melfi getting raped (the whole point was that Tony didn't find out)

- most of Pine Barrens

- the episode after tony was shot where his point of view was the coma, but we stll see everything else that happens

 

I just can't buy into that.

[RobertR]

Re: re

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The more I think about it, the more I like the actual ending. It's basically Tony's life in microcosm. The self absorbed family that he barely connects with, the bad food, Tony trying to relive his youth through music, the paranoia about who's that at the counter, a hitman, cop or just a guy who needs to use the restroom, etc. And one day the guy coming out of the bathroom is actually going to have a gun and it will be over just like that leaving all sorts of loose ends. That's Tony Soprano's life told as a metaphor.

 

If anything, David Chase is saying that these characters are incapable of change on any meaningful level. Tony doesn't have panic attacks anymore, but he's basically still Tony. AJ is still AJ. Etc. They're all caught up in consumerism, their careers, and the latest fads, they were talking about American Idol and Dreamgirls at Bobby's wake while people were still gunning for Tony, without actually connecting with anyone else. And that's reflective of the final scene. Who actually changed during the series? Tony may have bought some time, but he hasn't changed what's coming for him.

 

I think that all makes intellectual sense and it's kind of nice, to me, for a series to use metaphor instead of being literal. Now, whether that was satisfying and exciting or "pretentious and boring" is up to individual opinion.

 

Robert

[brewcrewreview]

I think we, as the viewers, got punked out. That's why the screen went black.

[BrewCrewForever]

RoberR that is another fantastic take on the ending.

[TooLiveBrew]

KegStand, why exactly does that article tell us that the "Mystery Man" isn't Nikki Leotardo? I read the entire thing, and nowhere in it does it make any reference to the character beyond the actor's experience working on the show. Calling his role "Mystery Man" simply means Chase didn't want to let out who the character actually is, not that it's not Phil's relative.

 

Obviously I don't know either way, but the fan whose post I found seemed to know his/her stuff, and stated that the end credits identified a "Nikki Leotardo." While I have no way to verify (no TiVo) this, it certainly doesn't appear that anything has been "debunked", unless you have some info I missed --- and would love to see!

 

 

Also, RobertR, I love that reading of the ending. I kinda took that away too - not your interpretation of the characters (which is nice) - but the fact that it doesn't matter whether this guy shot him, but that it's just going to happen eventually. You know, the randomness of life (think Jackie Aprile's cancer...) coupled with the constant danger of life as a mafia boss.

 

The thing I noticed was Meadow's facial expression as she ran - repeat, ran - into the diner. She looked upset & panicked, which would explain her inability to park in the aforementioned large space on the curb across the street. To be more specific, not a look that would coincide simply with being late for dinner. That's what has me scratching my head the most.

 

My guess was that she's pregnant (Carmela noted that Mead had gone to her Ob-gyn to 'change birth control' - maybe she found out just then), but even that seems a bit of a reach. What's great to me about the ending is that it works for however you, the individual viewer, read the series. The show has worked its entire path to make its viewers think beyond the surface, and that's precisely what this ending does, too.

[IslandsAC]

Well I finally got around to watching it, and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was really easy to empathize with Tony's apprehension for the entire ending. One moment he's enjoying an onion ring, the next moment he's eying up the random guy at the bar, the next minute he's joking with AJ, the next minute he's talking about the indictment. This is the uncertain state his life has always been in, and the same state it will continue to be in.

 

My favorite part of the episode was knowing that Tony was looking back on his life and really wondering about the choices he'd made: when he sat there with Sil in the hospital,when he was talking to Meadow and she commented that 'if he hadn't been dragged away by the FBI she'd probably be in med school', when he was talking to his lawyer, when he saw how senile Junior had become,...

 

I guess i'm easy, but I really love the under the surface tensions, however unresolved they remain, because that's what life is most of the time.

 

My only disappointment was that I was deprived of one last shot of Meadow.

[IslandsAC]

Oh and I also got a huge kick out of Paulie and the cat.

[Roscoe Chill]

KegStand, why exactly does that article tell us that the "Mystery Man" isn't Nikki Leotardo? I read the entire thing, and nowhere in it does it make any reference to the character beyond the actor's experience working on the show. Calling his role "Mystery Man" simply means Chase didn't want to let out who the character actually is, not that it's not Phil's relative.

 

Because someone said that the same guy was featured earlier in the series?

[Cooper]

Not that it really matters, but this is in the credits:

 

Paolo Colandrea = Man in Members Only Jacket

Jimmy Spadola = Man in Diner

Carol Scudder = Diner Waitress

Du Kelly = African American Man #1 in Diner

Sharrieff Pugh = African American Man #2 in Diner

Patrick Joseph Connolly = Truck Driver in Diner

Patti Karr = Old Woman in Diner

William Severs = Old man in Diner

Adrianne Rae Rodgers = Young Woman in Diner

Henry O'Neill = Young Man in Diner

 

No mention of Nikki Leotardo in the credits.

The only Leotardo mentioned in the closing credits is Patty, played by Geraldine Librandi (Phil's wife).

 

That is all.

[brettac1]

The only Leotardo mentioned in the closing credits is Patty, played by Geraldine Librandi (Phil's wife).

 

By the way, I loved how Phil's being whacked was basically turned into a funny moment when the SUV ran over his head. I actually started laughing (not to sound insane, of course).

[TooLiveBrew]

Great! Thanks for all the updates, guys - esp. walkoff with the great look at the credits. Glad to be set straight!

[naivin]

You guys are trying to read way more into it than was actually there. Its pretty well known that they taped 3 alternate endings to help "keep it under wraps". Yeah, ok. Think those will be available when the DVD's come out? You bet. Think people will run out and buy them hoping to see the ending they expected? No question.

 

This was a great way to leave the public wanting more and provide an opportunity to sell lots of DVD's and/or create a box office smash if they decide to go that route.

 

While I think the final scene in the restaurant/the parking, etc. was very good from a dramatic standpoint, it was basically a non-ending ending, reducing 6 years or whatever it has been of these characters lives down to 6 minutes. They're the same people, living the same lives and always will be. That's the point.

[And That]

Let me say, that was a perfect choice for the song in the background in the final scene, whether you liked it or not.

[iluvlamp]

I actually would have preferred "Anyway You Want It." It's what Chase did in the finalehttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[brettac1]

Let me say, that was a perfect choice for the song in the background in the final scene, whether you liked it or not.

 

And artist... it is in fact a Journey.

[RyDogg66]

I think the fact so many people are talking about it speaks volumes of the ending.

 

Also, I think people are (wanting to) reading to much into it. The series just ended, yes, it ended abruptly, but I dont think he was killed, or his entire family killed. I just think it ended.

[PKBadger]

Agreed....I watched the replay tonight and saw it far differently when I was able to focus on what is ACTUALLY happening. For instance, the man at the counter never actually looked at Tony, as far as I could tell, even when he passed the Sopranos' table on his way to the restroom. He looked way less suspicious the 2nd time around when I actually studied his mannerisms rather than being caught up in the suspense. I think it just ended, as Tony heard the chime and saw his daughter enter the restaurant.

[Roscoe Chill]

This was a great way to leave the public wanting more and provide an opportunity to sell lots of DVD's and/or create a box office smash if they decide to go that route.

 

Great point.

[RobertR]

I've had that darn Journey song stuck in my head all day. Darn that David Chase!

 

A couple of things besides the ending.

 

Despite Tony and Carmella's "best" efforts AJ and Meadow are still part of the life to an extent. Meadow is going to be an attorney so she can protect guys like her daddy and she's likely going to marry the son of a made guy. AJ, like his mother, is emotionally pliable to bribery and forgets all about his depression and idealism in exchange for a cool job, a new car, and a sexy girlfriend. And he's also pulled into Tony's circle through a job with Carmine.

 

In many ways, that's the saddest part of the series. Even their children can't escape the life. Nor did Bobby's. And Phil's grandkids were present at his death.

 

The shrinking nature of Little Italy and Butch accidentally stumbling into Chinatown were nice little touches to the episode. And emphasises the dead end that is the Mafia.

 

Sil, even in a coma, has a magnificent head of hair.

 

Tony's crew is no more conscious of security and using the back door than his screw up son. Nice parallel.

 

Junior was, of course, spot on confusing Janice with Livia. Poor kids.

 

Tony did take one more shot at redemption with Junior and trying to talk him into giving his stash up to Bobby's kids. Maybe the only selfless thing that Tony has ever tried to do. He fails of course. Partly through no fault of his own. Partly by holding a grudge so long that dementia has taken its course. Despite all his power and the fact that he once "owned north Jersey", Junior in the end is nothing more than a confused old man. And if Tony isn't gunned down, that's one of his other fates.

 

Paulie vs. the cat. I'll take the cat. Nice job of animal handling to get it to lie down on cue next to Paulie at the end. That's a sitcom in the making.

 

Despite Butch's betrayal of Phil being somewhat out of leftfield, I thought the aftermath of the negotiations was quite chilling. Especially when Tony indicated that he had a price for Bobby.

 

Agent Harris is really the mirror of Tony Soprano. Especially when talking to his wife. I certainly could see Tony having that exact same conversation.

 

Robert

[And That]

Sil, even in a coma

 

If I had any gripe with the ending, that's what it was. I can handle people dying or people being left alive and in possible danger, but leaving a guy in a coma? That's kind of weak. I understand how it fits in with the non-ending ending, however Sil deserved a better ending (any ending) than that IMO.

[PeaveyFury]

Great point.

 

I agree, which is why it is so frustrating. If they legitimately did it to set up a huge movie or sell more DVD's, then they really stuck it to the fans of the series with an already gimmicky ending.

 

EDIT: And it's going to be really frustrating when the DVD comes out and its apparent that they chose the worst of the three filmed endings to actually end the series.