Sopranos (spoilers)

[iluvlamp]

I think that agent knew that info. Sleeping with his mistress maybe made it compel him to tell Tony( plus affinity). They weren't that different I guesshttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RobertR]

Given that The Prisoner and Twin Peaks have some of my favorite ending episodes, I'm kind of a sucker for a non-traditional ending.

 

That said, although I think the the diner was full with the monthly meeting of the red herring society, when Tony's life ends it's going to be a lot like that. His wife and children wrapped up in themselves, Carmella didn't take long to stop worrying about Tony and start worrying about house designs, loose ends in his life, and at a time and place where he didn't see it coming. Maybe the guy going into the restroom is supposed to call up memories of Michael Corleone in THE GODFATHER, maybe not, but that's the type of ending ultimately coming for Tony. Tony's not a better person, but his children might make it out o.k.

 

Let me say that the highlight for me was Paulie hitting on a 20 year old.

 

Robert

[iluvlamp]

Robert, that part was hilarious. She was so into the "old" guy.

[colbyjack]

I want to add that I'm not heartbroken the show is over, not how sad I was when I watched the last Band of Brothers (even though I knew it was a mini-series going in), or when Six Feet Under ended (or when The Wire will eventually end).

 

The Sopranos was a good show, not great, and what was particularly frustrating to me is that it could have been a great show. I have shared my frustrations with the Sopranos over the years, so I'm not going to re-hash them now, but I certainly am not that surprised with the way it ended, nor am I disappointed, because my expectations weren't that high to begin with.

 

I am excited that Big Love starts tomorrow, although bummed that it is on Monday night instead of Sunday. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the first season of the series, as it kind of picked up where Six Feet Under left off as far as entertainment value for me is concerned.

[TheCrew07]

I don't like Big Love at all, you're the first person that I've come across that likes the show Colby. John from Cinci wasn't what I expected from the promo 15 minute thing they ran this weekend. The show has lots of actors that I like and Rebecca Demornay whom I've always had a soft spot for. It started slow, but I get what's going on, and will give it a couple of episodes.

 

Getting back to the topic, I didn't miss an episode for the first 3 seasons. The show just started to wear on and I got to be a pretty casual viewer and maybe caught an episode here or there when I happened across one. I pretty quit watching after Tony got shot and the episodes were dreams and such, because it was like Max Payne to me, it was't original but with this being the last season I didn't miss one. I'm still pretty indifferent about the final episode, it just didn't do it for me. I guess I grew up with MASH and Cheers, and those shows tied off the show and generally made me feel a sense of loss. I was watching tonight fully expecting Tony to die, and I realized about halfway through that I was nervous, so maybe they accomplished their goal. I was into it, still rooting for Tony, and with the ding and then black, I stood up and swore out loud, and then sat down and let it sink in.

[And That]

I really, really like Big Love... I'm amped for the season opener tomorrow. And I was disappointed by John From Cincinnati - the writing was basically like Deadwood got transplanted into modern-day California. I found it annoying, but I might give it one more episode, because the premise is interesting.

[PKBadger]

I don't buy the whole "Tony dies" theory.

 

After the meeting in the warehouse, the New York underbosses were cool with Tony, and understood that he was still planning to whack Phil. A "cease fire" had been arranged, everyone went back to their daily lives (the Sopranos moving back into their house, the boys hanging outside the pork store, etc.) There should have been no retaliation after Phil's murder.....Butch even told Tony "do what you have to do." Not to mention that they agreed to give reparations to Janice and the kids.

 

You can rule out Lil' Carmine automatically, as he was a close friend of Tony's (and just gave AJ a job).

 

Every notable character left in Tony's crew was incredibly loyal - Paulie, Patsy (another automatic rule-out considering his son was marrying Meadow), Walden, and Benny. Everyone except that rat-fink Carlo, who was in witness protection.

 

If a hit was ordered, there would have to be surveillance on Tony, or they would have needed prior knowledge that he was going to Holsten's for dinner (which is basically impossible).

 

I guess you could say "Tony pissed off a lot of people over the years" but it just doesn't add up for me. If the assumption is that the guy at the lunch counter was a hitman, that means somebody had to pay him. Hesh wouldn't have the balls. Who else is there? I don't trust Butch 100% but you'd think that there would be a power struggle in New York with Phil gone that he would have to worry about first.

 

Thoughts? (Note: I'm basically just riffing off some of the comments left on the HBO message board, a lot of people seem to think Tony got shot.)

[danzig6767]

While i'm not a fan of the ending,i can accept that Chase wanted to leave it up to peoples imagination.My problem with the last episode was overall i found it fairly ho hum,nothing besides the ending and Phil's head getting rolled over were memorable.

 

I don't care that there wasn't a bunch of killing,but for a final show of a long and popular series,i just expected or hoped for something better.Maybe i had wrong expectations,even though i did tell my buddy before it started that i wouldn't be suprised if it was pretty boring episode before something big happened at the end.I was right about that except the big ending was that there was no big ending.

[sgtcluels]

I thought it was a huge let down. I kept watching the clock waiting for some closure. I was so taken aback I actually didn't stick around to watch John from Cincinnati, though it's on my TiVo.

 

HBO needs to come up with some good shows, they like to kill off the good ones. Carnivale, Rome, Deadwood. The only 2 other show I watch on a regular basis at Real Time and Curb, which is probably in it's last season.

 

Sorry HBO, but it looks like Showtime is going to be the new best original series network, with shows like Weeds, Dexter, The Tudors, and a bunch on the horizon you guys might be in a bit of trouble. (Are they owned by HBO?)

[bigopey76]

The episode was disappointing and unsatisfying. I'm a fan of strange, original endings, but you also have to have something of substance to placate the viewer. There wasn't enough action, wrap-up, or closure to allow for the cliff-hanger ending to not placate the annoyance of the ending. Had there been more development of the FBI/indictment story and then the cliff-hanger, it would have been fine because then you have some sense as to where the story is going/has gone. Endings like that of last nights episode only work when the episode answers more old questions than it asks new ones or leaves old ones untouched, IMO

[BrewCrewForever]

I was very confused with the ending when it happend. I think it could have been Tony getting shot just as Meadow walked in the diner. But I also think that nothing happend and they kept showing thos fishy characters to make you think someone was going to whack Tony. I did feel that when Meadow couldnt park the car she was going to walk in just as Tony was getting shot. And it would be like if she had just parked the damn thing there would have been one more shot of the whole family together like any other family in america eating dinner. I dunno its such a weird ending, it just stopped. I thought my cable went out for a second.

[bigopey76]

The ending very well could have been David Chase throwing it in the face of those who wanted Tony to die. Show every shadowy figure in the world, draw up the tension with Meadow arriving late (to possibly miss the bloodshed) and then fade to black. The Sopranos never really gave people what they wanted, and I guess they continued in that tradition.

 

Tangential to that, I was screaming and cursing at Charter Communications because I was sure they had screwed up the cable signal at the worst time possible when the screen went black.

[BrewCrewForever]

I was screaming and cursing at Charter Communications because I was sure they had screwed up the cable signal at the worst time possible when the screen went black.

 

Me to that is what I thought happend. I guess the ending means either Tony got whacked by someone in that diner as Meadow walked in or they had dinner together as a family and just went on living there lives.

 

In a way I kind of like the ending because it left for the unknown for us to use our imagination.

[Boy Jeenius]

First I loved the ending, I laughed out loud when it happened, I guess 'cause it was unique and the fact that everyone was going to be ticked. That ending will have people talking all the time about it. One thing I learned when I was a youth league commisioner was, that if a tough decision had to be made, make sure everyone gets hosed, so it does not look like you have special interests. That's what this ending is. It's open ended, and NO ONE likes it, so we all agree - - it's genius.

[Cooper]

Chase quote I stumbled on:

 

"I don?t think art should give answers. I think art should only pose questions. And art should not fill in blanks for people, or I think that?s what?s called propaganda. I think art should only raise questions, a lot of which may be even dissonant and you don?t even know you?re being asked a question, but that it creates some kind of tension inside you."

 

 

Yeah... The ending fit.

[homer]

I didn't watch the show on a regular basis, but I've seen it enough to know the characters and I've seen enough this season to know most of the plot lines.

 

I liked the ending. I like finale's that aren't all neat and tidy with all loose ends tied up. American cinema (and to me Soprano's is more cinema than television) is so geared towards answering every open ended question that it's kind of weird when it doesn't happen. I don't see anything wrong with leaving it open to interpretation - if anything it makes a more lasting impression.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

I didn't see it or even watch the show much. I'll catch it on DVD one day like the others.

 

But I was reading about it elsewhere and someone brought up points like in a previous episode someone referenced that when they get you, you won't even see it coming. Everything will go black.

 

And also that Tony was seen eating an orange in the final episode. This is a reference to certain death taken form the Coppola films is the argument.

 

Maybe?

 

But from what I've read it sounds like he was killed with certainty.

 

Now of course they filmed a few other endings. They probably showed the one with the fewest conclusions.

 

Expect the DVD that comes out this year for Christmas to have the alternate endings that everyone wants to see more.

 

And also expect all types of explanations about this one for people that can't figure it out or are uneasy about it. Or for those who want to know for sure what happened.

 

This is all marketing.

[BrewCrewForever]

Part of me wants to believe that the guy that went into the bathroom shot him and thats when everything went black. But the other half thinks that everything was fine and they just ate there meal.And Chase made it go black at that point cause it was a climax of Meadow walking in and it made you think that something happend. I dunno, we will probabaly never know the true ending as to what happend to Tony Soprano and his family.

[Fatter than Joey]

And also that Tony was seen eating an orange in the final episode. This is a reference to certain death taken form the Coppola films is the argument.

 

Well -- I noticed that -- however that could have been in reference to Phil getting whacked as well, as It happened right before Phil died IIRC.

 

The unsettling thing, was that this wasn't a "fade to black", it was very abrupt.

 

The problem I have with the "Death Theory" -- is that there is no real reason to think that he would have been killed, -- by anyone in the storylines at least... plus a lot of the shootings happened with multiple shooters ala Sil and Bobby.

 

I think that life goes on for the Sopranos

[TooLiveBrew]

Quote:

---

I think the the diner was full with the monthly meeting of the red herring society, when Tony's life ends it's going to be a lot like that.

---

Yes, yes, yes.

Quote:

---

Maybe the guy going into the restroom is supposed to call up memories of Michael Corleone in THE GODFATHER, maybe not, but that's the type of ending ultimately coming for Tony.

---

I certainly thought so.

 

This from Deadspin (don't know if it was posted yet or not, don't have time to browse, so sorry...) - who got it from an HBO message board...

Quote:

---

"So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

 

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?)."

---

This fan certainly gives the benefit of the doubt to Chase, but to be honest with you, after years of watching his subtle touches, I do too. But I don't know if all of this is or can be true -- still intriguing, though.

[iluvlamp]

After ruminating and hearing one thousand different theories, I think life just went on. Nothing was ever so simple in this show and the finale fits the bill. Considering the show began when the Sopranos were living their lives (not a true beginning showing Tony grow up) it just ended with them living their lives. If it would have ended with the guy going into the bathroom for a gun ala "Godfather", that would have been lame.

 

Also interesting, the boy scouts at the scene Bobby's death were there at the restaurant. I haven't been able to watch it again, but were there any other characters at the end that were connected to other killings?

 

edit...sheesh toolivebrew, we were thinking alike.

[PKBadger]

Yeah, the other thing I was thinking about this morning.....if you assume that the guy at the lunch counter was a hitman, he has to be the most unprofessional and stupid hitman of all time.

 

Every gunshot hit that they have shown on the Sopranos follows pretty much the same M.O. - you walk in, shoot, and leave. You never see a guy hang around and make his presence known for 5 minutes before carrying out the task at hand. That's just leaving yourself open to more eyewitnesses.

 

My favorite subtle nuance of the episode: when Tony was talking to Junior and mentioned "this thing of ours", and Junior immediately knew that he was referring to the Mafia, even in such a senile state.

 

 

Edit: just read TooLiveBrew's synopsis.....holy crap, I totally missed that. Maybe Tony did croak.

[BrewCrewForever]

"So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

 

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?)."

 

If all that is true then that is crazy. I say if the guy at the counter was really Nikki Leotardo then I say the show ended because Tony was shot by him just as Meadow walked in the diner.

[BrewCrewForever]

Okay I finally have my final conclusion after reading some message boards and such. Im not so sure it was the counter guy that did it but I think Tony was capped. Since this show was mainly about Tony and his life and family and job when he died the show died and we died with it. He got shot in that diner in the head and died instantly. And when that happend there was nothing but black because we saw the show through his eyes and his life. And once that was taken from him it was taken from us. BRILLIANT!

[TheCrew07]

My whole problem with this supposed single gun shot is that you wouldn't cap someone inside the restraunt because there are too many witnesses, unless you don't care about getting caught. It's just not very mobish, if they gun people down in public, they do it outdoors and in such a way as to get away easy.

 

The way Sonny died in "A Bronx Tale" is much more believable, crowded bar, party going on, a young kid bent on revenge for his father. This didn't have that sort of feel to it, I have to think if the guy came out of the bathroom that Carmella would have seen or said something right there at the end when she looked up, like yelling his name "Tony!" and then a cut to black.

 

After reflecting I think the series was just meant to be opened ended, but I'll probably be proven wrong by the commentary on the DVD.