Taylor Green called up

[monty57]

Wouldn't that be something if Gamel & Green aren't even thought of enough to include them on the playoff roster over guys like Counsell, Wilson and Kotsay, but then they are {potentially} expected to be starting for the team in key offensive positions for a playoff run in 2012. Roenicke's a big "team chemistry" guy, so how is the team chemistry going to be next year when Gamel and Green think the organization stinks?

[rluzinski]

The Brewers offense after Braun and Fielder isn't particularly good.

 

There seems to be a consistent underestimation of Hart's offensive talents around here:

 

2010: .283/.340/.525

2011: .286/.359/.512

Updated proj.: .273/.341/.506

 

That's certainly good for a corner outfielder.

 

The way I see the offense (considering position):

 

Fielder, Braun (great)

Hart, Weeks (very good)

Morgan, Lucroy (average)

....

McGehee, Betancourt (very bad)

[reillymcshane]

Yes, they wanted him ELIGIBLE for the playoffs. That was my point. It's my understanding you had to be up in the show before August 31 to be eligible for the post season.

This is correct. You have to be on the 25 man roster by Aug 31 if you are to be eligible to play in the post season. The only other option is if there is an injury, then you can replace that injured person with someone else (I believe that someone else has to have been on the 40 man roster as of Aug 31, but I'm not sure of that).

 

Thus, Green is eligible for post season play. Of course, with Weeks and Gomez coming back, there's no guarantee. But a lefthanded bat with a little pop might be nice to have.

[reillymcshane]

The Brewers offense after Braun and Fielder isn't particularly good.

 

There seems to be a consistent underestimation of Hart's offensive talents around here:

 

2010: .283/.340/.525

2011: .286/.359/.512

Updated proj.: .273/.341/.506

 

That's certainly good for a corner outfielder.

 

The way I see the offense (considering position):

 

Fielder, Braun (great)

Hart, Weeks (very good)

Morgan, Lucroy (average)

....

McGehee, Betancourt (very bad)

russ, i think you nailed it here. Hart has been very good the past two years. Is he great? No. But he's a very good hitter.

 

I just can't believe how badly McGehee has become. He went from a good hitter to really bad. In 2010, he had the 7th best OPS (out of 20 qualifying guys) at 3B. This year he's last (out of only 9 players. If you expand it to 300 ABs, he's 24th out of 27 players). Just amazing how bad he has done this year.

[yoshii8]

Yes, they wanted him ELIGIBLE for the playoffs. That was my point. It's my understanding you had to be up in the show before August 31 to be eligible for the post season.

The only other option is if there is an injury, then you can replace that injured person with someone else (I believe that someone else has to have been on the 40 man roster as of Aug 31, but I'm not sure of that).

This is what me and Rawbecht were both trying to say, because NDOG stated that he was only brought in as injury insurance, and that doesn't make any sense.

[Glennron]

The Brewers offense after Braun and Fielder isn't particularly good.

 

There seems to be a consistent underestimation of Hart's offensive talents around here:

 

2010: .283/.340/.525

2011: .286/.359/.512

Updated proj.: .273/.341/.506

 

That's certainly good for a corner outfielder.

 

The way I see the offense (considering position):

 

Fielder, Braun (great)

Hart, Weeks (very good)

Morgan, Lucroy (average)

....

McGehee, Betancourt (very bad)

I took the original statement to mean the batters that come after Braun and Fielder in the lineup. I wonder how many teams in baseball have their two worst regular hitters 5-6 in the order?

[Raw Biz]

Yes, they wanted him ELIGIBLE for the playoffs. That was my point. It's my understanding you had to be up in the show before August 31 to be eligible for the post season.

The only other option is if there is an injury, then you can replace that injured person with someone else (I believe that someone else has to have been on the 40 man roster as of Aug 31, but I'm not sure of that).

This is what me and Rawbecht were both trying to say, because NDOG stated that he was only brought in as injury insurance, and that doesn't make any sense.

Yep. I also think there should be a sticky or something so I don't have to post this multiple times in every thread. In the case of an injury, the replacement player doesn't have to have been on the 40 man as of 8/31. They just had to be in the organization. They would, however, have to be added to the 40 man before being used as a replacement.

[Roscoe Chill]

This is what me and Rawbecht were both trying to say, because NDOG stated that he was only brought in as injury insurance, and that doesn't make any sense.

 

 

Ok the point is that they wanted Green to be an option...be eligible for the playoffs. I did say injury insurance, but as far as making sense, you guys keep agreeing with me and saying that you're disagreeing with me. He was brought up when he was because they now have the option to play him in the playoffs. The option.

I could be wrong, but if Casey McGehee were to break his leg tonight, I don't think they can just have Green on the playoff roster had he been brought up yesterday. That injury clause is for players getting injured in the playoffs isn't it?

[Raw Biz]

This is what me and Rawbecht were both trying to say, because NDOG stated that he was only brought in as injury insurance, and that doesn't make any sense.

 

 

Ok the point is that they wanted Green to be an option...be eligible for the playoffs. I did say injury insurance, but as far as making sense, you guys keep agreeing with me and saying that you're disagreeing with me. He was brought up when he was because they now have the option to play him in the playoffs. The option.

I could be wrong, but if Casey McGehee were to break his leg tonight, I don't think they can just have Green on the playoff roster had he been brought up yesterday. That injury clause is for players getting injured in the playoffs isn't it?

You are wrong. I tried to explain it in my earlier post. It is for anyone who gets injured after the 8/31 deadline. If a team were to only have 25 available players for their playoff roster (the 25 man as of 8/31 with no DL, suspended, etc. players) and a player were to get hurt in September, they would be down to 24. MLB wouldn't make that team play with only its roster as of 8/31 because there would only be 24 guys left. So anybody who gets injured after the 8/31 deadline can be replaced with anyone that was in the organization as of 8/31. That is how David Price pitched in the playoffs a few years ago because Percival got hurt before the playoffs started.

So yes we were agreeing with you that they brought Green up so they had the option for him to be on the playoff roster but we are disagreeing with you saying that it had to do with injury insurance. Injury insurance has basically nothing to do with it.

 

edit: There may be a rule about having to replace a player who gets hurt mid-playoff series. Teams have to wait to bring in replacement players not on the playoff eligibility list until after the conclusion of a series. I'm not sure if this also applies to guys who made the eligibility list. In other words, if Kotsay got hurt in Game 2, Gamel couldn't replace him until the end of the series since he wasn't on the eligible list. However, Green might be able to mid-series (although I'm not completely sure).

[Baldkin]

edit: There may be a rule about having to replace a player who gets hurt mid-playoff series. Teams have to wait to bring in replacement players not on the playoff eligibility list until after the conclusion of a series. I'm not sure if this also applies to guys who made the eligibility list. In other words, if Kotsay got hurt in Game 2, Gamel couldn't replace him until the end of the series since he wasn't on the eligible list. However, Green might be able to mid-series (although I'm not completely sure).

I am 99% sure the replacement player has to be on the 40 man roster, and that you can only change the 40 man between series. It wouldn't make sense to penalize a team that didn't have anyone on the DL over Aug 31 and have them unable to replace an injured player on the roster.

[Raw Biz]

edit: There may be a rule about having to replace a player who gets hurt mid-playoff series. Teams have to wait to bring in replacement players not on the playoff eligibility list until after the conclusion of a series. I'm not sure if this also applies to guys who made the eligibility list. In other words, if Kotsay got hurt in Game 2, Gamel couldn't replace him until the end of the series since he wasn't on the eligible list. However, Green might be able to mid-series (although I'm not completely sure).

I am 99% sure the replacement player has to be on the 40 man roster, and that you can only change the 40 man between series. It wouldn't make sense to penalize a team that didn't have anyone on the DL over Aug 31 and have them unable to replace an injured player on the roster.

So Gamel could replace an injured guy mid-series since he's on the 40 man . But Gindl would have to wait until after the series ended, be added to the 40 man, then could be used as a replacement. That makes sense.

[djoctagone]

edit: There may be a rule about having to replace a player who gets hurt mid-playoff series. Teams have to wait to bring in replacement players not on the playoff eligibility list until after the conclusion of a series. I'm not sure if this also applies to guys who made the eligibility list. In other words, if Kotsay got hurt in Game 2, Gamel couldn't replace him until the end of the series since he wasn't on the eligible list. However, Green might be able to mid-series (although I'm not completely sure).

in 2008, rickie weeks was injured during the nlds and was replaced by a player on the 40-man roster before the fourth and final game of the series. that player was not on the brewers 25-man roster as of 31 august.

[JJHardy7]

People can enjoy the team and still be frustrated with how the lineup is being handled.

 

Taylor Green was a little bit of a forgotten man until this year (looks like he fully recovered from his injury) and now we assume he's good again because he is healhty, is guaranteed to be better than Casey? I honestly think he is, but I'm not sure how big the gap is between him and Casey. I do agree I'd like to see him get some starts, but like I mentioned maybe when the magic number goes down a bit more he'll get some playing time.

 

I do agree that he should get some time. I just don't have a huge reaction since he hasn't yet. I'd have a much bigger reaction if he's not getting a shot at the 2012 job when we'll need to improve offense if/when we lose Fielder. We're not there yet.

 

The question that I'd like to see answered (and I don't think it will be until Taylor starts) is Taylor's defense vs. Casey's. I've read and seen mixed results of Taylor's, but I haven't seen enough to make a conclusion. I'm wondering if that is really the 'reason' (i.e. the gap isn't all that big between their defensive skills). I would guess though that Taylor's defense can't be any worse. Just throwing it out there.

 

I agree on the chemistry items and with NDOG. I think Taylor should get some time, but I'm just not sold that it is making that much of difference. We won't know until Taylor gets some time. And Gamel has ripped the cover off the ball in AAA for a few years and we've seen the playing time he's received when he's been in Milwaukee...

[pogokat]

re: corey Hart...

 

he's been consistently in the top 20 in ops for quite awhile...if he had as many ab's as braun and fielder he'd be in the top ten in hrs too...it's hart to say he's not a very good if not great player

[igor67]

At my most optimistic I hope Green does enough with his limited opportunities to force RR's hand. He might be slow to change his mind (which is something of a virtue, you can't manage based on who has looked good in the last week), but he has let guys force their way into the line-up. I can imagine a scenario, where Green gets partially platooned for the remainder. Not even 50-50, but getting consistent pinch hitting opportunities and some starts against righties.

[monty57]

Green got a hit in his first PA, so he moved ahead of Kotsay. He got a hit in his second PA, so he's moving up further. Gamel didn't hit well in a few PAs, so he's in the doghouse. Morgan has been better than Kotsay for years, but was behind him on the depth chart until he hit out of his mind for a week or two. Loe pitched well early on, and was cemented into the "8th inning guy" role, while Saito pitched bad in his first two outings and got hurt, so he was behind Loe on the depth chart. Nieves had a good spring, so he was on the roster for way longer than he ever should have been.

 

It seems for Roenicke, what you do prior to him personally seeing you is irrelavent. What you do in your first week or two is extremely important. Once he has his mind set on you (from the initial few PAs), it is very hard to change that opinion.

[Raw Biz]

It seems for Roenicke, what you do prior to him personally seeing you is irrelavent. What you do in your first week or two is extremely important. Once he has his mind set on you (from the initial few PAs), it is very hard to change that opinion.

From everything that's happened this year, this really does seem like the case. And its just infuriating that someone who thinks like this actually manages a major league team. There are all these stats/scouting reports/etc. at one's disposal now but Roenicke still sticks to the eye test. I just don't get it.

[Bernman23]

Then why did he start Felipe Lopez straight away? He's just biased against rookies. That whole bit about playing the players who got them this far was a cop out. Felipe Lopez didn't get them anywhere and sucked for an extended period previously, before Roenicke gifted him starts.

[istanbultaye]

Well, if you go with the theory that anything that happens prior to Roenicke seeing the player first hand, and what they do their first 1-2 weeks will form his opinion of their skills permanently, then what happened with Felipe Lopez makes perfect sense. He came in, Roenicke gave him a shot (because he's a veteran), he sucked for 2 weeks, and Roenicke therefore stopped using him, and ultimately Melvin DFAed him.

[endaround]

Its also why he'll pinch hit for Hairston but never takes out Yuni.

[Ayt]

I'm having a really hard time believing Green is a rookie considering how he has hit in his 8 ABs.

[tigerbrew]

I'm having a really hard time believing Green is a rookie considering how he has hit in his 8 ABs.

Dude can hit, he has proven that in the minors. He makes a really useful pinch hitter. but I much prefer him to be a regular starter.

 

I hope RR finally realise that Green can help improve our offense now and in postseason, and start him regularly the rest of the way.

 

Our lineup should consist of our best hitters if we want to improve our offense and win in postseason.

[clancyphile]

I'm having a really hard time believing Green is a rookie considering how he has hit in his 8 ABs.

I haven't been so surprised. I have long felt that Green was much like Cirillo in terms of his strengths - plate discipline, ability to make contact, and he's got decent power (lots of doubles). Put it this way - he's a perfect #2 hitter.

[logan82]

Hasn't been proven rookies will mess up team chemistry and will not be able to hit. He obviously isn't a rookie cause he can hit. His MiLB stats mean nothing.

[tigerbrew]

I haven't been so surprised. I have long felt that Green was much like Cirillo in terms of his strengths - plate discipline, ability to make contact, and he's got decent power (lots of doubles). Put it this way - he's a perfect #2 hitter.

Ahh... Jeff Cirillo, my favourite Brewers player before Braun came along. I agree with the comparision, but I think Green has more power though.